420 DA Thread

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Skip, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Oct 5, 2006
    Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
    07 52 DB
    Truly Blessed III
    R6800 CRM MANs
    Thundering Towers of Teutonic Torque
    2010 Nautica 12' RIB,
    MAN R6800 CRMs
    Rob,
    I swapped my racors every 40 hours. Honestly, it was only necessary the first time. After the first 40 hours with the boat I was getting an intermittent RPM surge on the port main. It was fuel starvation, as suggested by the rather smug and arrogant webmaster at boatdiesel.com
    Once I swapped racors, combined with maintenance biocide dosing with every fill up, I was good to go. I continued to change racors every 40 hours but that was overkill. With good fuel system maintenance and no loads of bad fuel I think I am set to do them once per season.
    Aftercoolers are good. Zincs are in good shape and I am going to install new impellers in the spring to avoid getting pieces of a worn impeller into the aftercooler.
    Had to swap out the impeller on the Onan after it went south..an easy 20 minute job..getting the chunks of impeller out of the onan heat exchanger was a bit more difficult, but very do-able.
    When the second set of racors for the mains came out looking good, I elected not to change my generator racor. That one is a real pain to get to and I will save that for this spring when I am feeling energetic and there is plenty of advil available.
    Overall, love the boat. 147 hours, 3020 gallons of fuel burned for an average of 20.5 GPH. Not bad for 45' and 14 tons loaded for battle cruising at 24-25 knots.
    I cut shrink wrap, install canvas and isenglass, open seacocks, and light the fires in the thundering cathedrals of torque in 45 days...but who is counting?
    regards
    Skip
     
  2. xravenx

    xravenx Member

    858
    Oct 5, 2006
    Baltimore, Md.
    370 Sundancer 1995
    8.1s (2013) w/ V drives
    Hey Skip,

    That would make it March 3rd, I always cut my baggie off the first "good" weekend in March. Maybe you could do one of those countdown ticker type things like FC - 3 did. I used his when I first joined SRO, but the final date got changed so much I had to bail............ :huh:

    John
     
  3. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hey Rob / Skip -
    Good to see you back here, and once again, I see we have our beloved 420 thread going...if we could only paste in the old comments we all had!!

    The most interesting problem I have had is a TON of bad fittings on the water lines in the boat...who has ever heard of bad brass fittings?? WEll - I got them all I think. End of the year, we thought there was a crack in the hull do to a prior incident (oops); luckily found out it wasn't - it was...another bad fitting! argh! Dealer has taken care of these though...

    I have to pull my impellers this weekend - forgot about it - but it's only been out of the water for 1 month... But, will pull them... Hopefully going back in late march - but, who knows, winter might come in March this year!!!

    All else has been good - the biggest complaint I probably have and I know Rob had this one - the water heater SUCKS! My 360 was 10 times better - much faster recovery, etc. This one, just can't do it!!

    Jared
     
  4. Robski97

    Robski97 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    The water heater... LOL that meakes me laugh...I spoke to people at searay about stuff in general and the water heater they say is the least of there complaints.... Im like no way... 8 gallon water heater on 2 head boat ... come on.... oh and the sink... They are getting complaints of the sink being too small but due to the cook top there stuck with it ..

    They also said no one has complained about the racor location other then me ... Go figure...

    Skip,
    i got bad fuel too....long story..... but like ive said 100 x's with hot motors ur not going anywhere near them..... BAD Very bad...

    I had water and what looked like ssand... both tanks....

    SO pissed...

    So now i need to get the bottoms cleaned... its still there ... waiting to mess with me ....

    To be continued........


    Glad we found each other
     
  5. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think what happens is the dealers don't pass the compalints on! I don't have time to call Sea Ray myself...or energy with the list I would have...but, my dealer knows!!

    Get rid of the stove or go to a 2 burner... I have NEVER used mine in my last 2 boats!! Kind of a waste if you ask me - others might use it ???

    Yes, small sink...arghhh...

    I would rather have a dishwasher instead of the stove :) No we would be talk'n!! And the coffee maker - go to the coffee store - easier :)

    Racors - agree - I haven't even thought about how I am going to bend to get to mine in spring!! Bad fuel...I am lucky - have NOT had a problem here all year - nor have I heard of anyone...phew!
     
  6. boater4life

    boater4life New Member

    135
    Jan 14, 2007
    Port of Escanaba, MI
    520 Sundancer 2006
    2 x 698 MAN's
    Guys, I'm looking at a 2004 42. Anything to look for during inspection?
     
  7. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    Hey Salvation - I remember chatting with you before - good ol' Escanaba!! Hopefully this summer i will make it up there via boat (I drive all the time, tons of fam).

    From my view, it's a good sturdy boat...most of the complaints we have had are just dumb design features - things that you either live with or ???

    I.E., - small water heater...small kitchen sink...a cozy forward head..

    I am hoping you are looking at Diesels - not the gas - I know there are a few gas out there...

    That all said, there is nothing that I have heard of or seen that I would be extra careful for on a inspection of one.
     
  8. boater4life

    boater4life New Member

    135
    Jan 14, 2007
    Port of Escanaba, MI
    520 Sundancer 2006
    2 x 698 MAN's
    Actually I saw the boat in Sturgeon Bay But it now is in Peawaukee (sp). Not far from you. I used to live and work in Milwaukee at the Hyatt. Great area!
     
  9. Robski97

    Robski97 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Cutting edge has it right.... Great boat just stuff that gets u scratching ur head.....

    Good luck


    Rob
     
  10. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Oct 5, 2006
    Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
    07 52 DB
    Truly Blessed III
    R6800 CRM MANs
    Thundering Towers of Teutonic Torque
    2010 Nautica 12' RIB,
    MAN R6800 CRMs
    Solvation,
    This is my 3d Sea Ray--we started with a 260DA in August 04, 320DA in May 05, (both 2002 model year boats) and the 03 420DA in March of this year...and I am done. This is the right boat for us.

    Wht engines and trannies in the 04--same as mine or common rail with electronic controls? Am guessing common rail QSCs?

    My 03 has C series Cummins 450s mated to ZF 280 Series IV transmissions. There is a lot of room in the engine spaces to DIY. Take a good look at the forward portion, near the bottom, of the ZF trannies. There you will see a large cap. It is 22MM. Behind it sits the ZF transmission filter, whcih is supposed to be cleaned every season. Mine had never been cleaned; I know this because the white factory cummins paint was still on the copper crush washer behind the 22mm cap. This will allow you to raise the BS flag on annual tranny maintenance.

    Honestly, I've not come across much I'd change. I think Sea Ray nailed it in the first model year. The C series Cummins are the perfect match. No matter how I have her loaded, she comes on plane quick and easy with zero tabs and almost no bow rise...and she comes off plane smoothly without soaking the swim platform.

    I don't have hard top, thruster, or cockpit A/C and heat, but my boat has every other major factory option available in 03. In this model year the flat panel is mounted to a cabinet, which I prefer to the later flip down design. I also have SR Navigator by Maptech--I really like that system, and Maptech has been great about sending me S/W updates, even though I am the second owner. One silly thing, at least on my boat: the fluxgate compass for the Raymarine ST 7001 Autopilot is mounted behind and to the port side of the glove box. I had a small magnet in the glove box and could not for the life of me figure why the boat wanted to head to Canada when I engaged the autopilot. Found the magnet, after disassembling half the helm. Some kid at the factory forgot to put the "Warning Compass Area" sticker in the glove box. Oh well.

    Other must haves for me: Glendinning sunchronizer, engine oil change system, and the ray autopilot. The synchrnoizer and autopilot make long cruises an absolute pleasure, and the oil change pump/manifold makes routine maintenance a snap.

    The boat is responsive, easy to handle in close quarters, very comfortable in 3-4' chop at a steady 22 knots, and can take the bigger stuff so long as you slow down. You will definitely want to call Sea Ray with the HIN of the boat you are looking at and get the warranty history. Cummins and ZF will gie you the history of the engines and trannies if you give them the serial number.

    All in all, a great boat.

    Shoot away with questions, and I will do my best to answer them.

    regards
    Skip
     
  11. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    I think Skip said it right.
    IT has it's quirks - but all in all - a good boat.

    Starting this weekend I will be doing my first oil / filter changes...so I will find out more about that fun!

    But, yes, give it gas and it jumps out, turbos kick in, gets up on plane and then rides like a jem.

    First time I was out in 2/3 footers I couldn't believe it. I was like wow - my old boat (360) I would be hearing pounding non stop - this was just going right through it all!! Front end stays down and it rides nice...

    I have the bow thrusters and I like them in tight spots - the boat is big and sometimes the wind grabs ya; it is nice.... I have the hard top as well - which I like...
     
  12. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Oct 5, 2006
    Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
    07 52 DB
    Truly Blessed III
    R6800 CRM MANs
    Thundering Towers of Teutonic Torque
    2010 Nautica 12' RIB,
    MAN R6800 CRMs
    Hey Jared,
    Oil/filter change is not too hard with the reverso system. I went with Shell Rotella T 15-40. I took a sharpie and put the date on all the filters I changed just so I have a reminder. Overkill, I am sure, as I will change every season. You are still under warranty, so be sure whatever oil you use complies with your warranty. Valvoline Premium Blue is what Cummins recommends, I think.

    Are you doing trannies? The oil filter in the ZF 280 Series IVs is a real pain. You will need a 22MM socket and a replacement crush washer, available from ZF for about 3 bucks each. I used a jabsco 12V pump mounted on a flat tank to pump my trannies. The clips from the jabsco unit were not long enough to reach my Optima AGMs, so I bought a cheap deep cycle battery at Wal Mart and used that to power the Jabsco unit. It took about 15 minutes or so to pump 5 quarts of 30W out of each transmission.

    I did the 2 micron spin on diesel filters as well. I put a big heavy black plastic bag under the filters, as they tend to drip diesel. These are the "construction site clean up bags" you see at Home Depot/Lowes. worked great. I also kept some fuel wipes under the filters just in case.

    I used the K&N filter cleaning and oiling kit to clean the fiulter elements on the Walker Airseps and they look brand new.

    Shoot me an e-mail if you have any questions. I took some lessons learned notes after I winterized and am happy to share them.

    regards
    Skip
     
  13. Robski97

    Robski97 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Skip,
    Im proud of ya buddy.....

    Rob
     
  14. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog New Member

    106
    Oct 10, 2006
    Northern Lake Michigan
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    Solvation,

    I was wondering where you might be. Last I saw you was Fish Creek after the storm.

    Nice choice on the 420 as most have already pointed out. If you recall yes we have the blue hull, yes bit more work but we love it. Other than some of the little things previously mentioned we have no major complaints.

    We did a lot of cooking on the boat last summer and found to the galley to be acceptable. Yes sink is a bit small but worked for us. I would have put the large burner of the stove nearer the power vent but hey that is just me.

    I did the oil change in the fall and with the change system it was really easy. Did the transmission mid summer and that went well too.

    We have had a bit of a power drop on the port engine; 100 rpm is all but does make a bit of a difference at idle speed. Figure it might be a Racor and we plan to take care of them in the spring.

    On our boat, a 2005, the dash panel lights go on with the running lights. Wish this was different as we sit in the cockpit sometimes listening to music and don’t want the running light on but want to see the stereo controls. Again, little things you think of as you sit there enjoying life.

    There were two times last summer when we crossed the big lake that we would not have in our previous boat, 36 foot express cruiser. The 420 just take the water so well with her profile, beam and weight.

    Agree with Skip on the synchronizer and auto-pilot, never thought I would want either of them but now can’t imagine being without. We don’t have the Sea Ray Nav, have all Raymarine and went with the E-120 (2).

    You said you saw the boat in Sturgeon Bay, was it at Harbor Club? I know there was a guy there trying to sell his 420 with blue hull and hardtop. We looked at it, nice boat.
     
  15. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    Skip -
    Sounds good - will start looking at it all this summer.
    I had the tranny oil changed at about 50 hours mid summer. The manual said should do that then - then next I believe is around 200 hours... And, because I had the little "oops" with the boat - and it was up on blocks, i figured it was a good time to let the dealer do that... I know they said it was a pain to get to!

    I do have the oil change system - so I am sure that will be easy. My cummins guy said only advantage to doing it in the water is you can fire it up let the oil warm up a bit then it just poors right out... But, I figured this way, I can do this, let it drain, and while it does that - go wax another 20 feet :).

    Fuel filters as I menitoned earlier - wait till I finish off the current tank of fuel...
     
  16. Cuttin' Edge

    Cuttin' Edge New Member

    148
    Jan 14, 2007
    Milwaukee, WI
    Solvation -
    I think I know the boat you are talking about. Is it Pewter as well? If so, I actually have been on it! And, the better part is I can help you on the pricing and all. If it is the one I am thinking of - good boat - VERY low hours as well. And, the better part is I bet I can do some good deals on it for ya! If so - lets hook up via regular eMail...
     
  17. SaltyDog

    SaltyDog New Member

    106
    Oct 10, 2006
    Northern Lake Michigan
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    Hey jared, hope you had a good summer on the water.

    Oil change is pretty smooth. Two things, you may already know, fill the filters before you put them on the mains, they hold A LOT of oil. Also, when filling them fill from the outside holes so the oil is "filtered" instead of just filling from the center hole.

    Are you heading north on the lake this year? Maybe we will see ya on the water.
     
  18. boater4life

    boater4life New Member

    135
    Jan 14, 2007
    Port of Escanaba, MI
    520 Sundancer 2006
    2 x 698 MAN's
    Cuttin' Edge:

    Sent you a pm.
     
  19. Robski97

    Robski97 Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 15, 2007
    North Bellmore, NY
    44DA
    Cummins QSC 8.3's
    Skip,
    have u done anything to the boat ?? Nothings going on here so figured we'd catch up... I finally got my dash lights fixed. 3 transformers later... I can finally see my switch's at nite.

    next time ur in the bilge. over by ur water pump look up into the arch... All those wires on my boat are unsecured and have no chaff protection. I reached up as high as i could and zip tied them... but im not nearly high enough....

    In the spring im going to take off that access panel in arch and try and do a better job.

    Rob
     
  20. Skip

    Skip Active Member

    Oct 5, 2006
    Potomac River/Chesapeake Bay
    07 52 DB
    Truly Blessed III
    R6800 CRM MANs
    Thundering Towers of Teutonic Torque
    2010 Nautica 12' RIB,
    MAN R6800 CRMs
    Rob, good tip. I will check that out. I visit my girl weekly and have enough wiggle room in the shrink wrap to be able to get into the engine spaces. Thanks for the heads up!
    Skip
     

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