420/44 DB Owners Club

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Alex F, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Tomco

    Tomco Active Member

    258
    Aug 16, 2012
    Ottawa, Ontario
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge
    GHS Hydraulic Lift
    11' Walker Bay, 30hp
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    JoAna, you might check at Plasdeck (https://www.plasdeck.com/research-information/boats-on-file) where you can order (for a small fee of course) the template for a 44DB and adjust to your preference.

    Also, Carpe Diem did a very nice upgrade to his boat (http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/eva-foam-decking.83950/page-9) (post 163 is the results) and may be able to provide some details regarding the template.

    The EVA thread above has some good/bad about the EVA foam - FYI.
     
    JoAna likes this.
  2. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Thank you Carpe and Hipo. A few followup questions. The boat I am considering is freshwater, any concerns about the aftercoolers and exchangers where no salt has been involved? Any concerns about the way you run a diesel boat versus gas? I have read that diesel engines do not like to run at slower speeds preferring 3/4 throttle to prevent carbon build up in the cylinders. I have also read that starting and stopping is harder on diesels than gas. My typical run would be 25 miles, but most likely at reduced speed due to wake concerns on an inland water way. Some of the service reports on this boat appear to show repeated problems with the Onan generator eating impellers. Has anyone experienced that as a problem? Appreciate all feedback, don't want to make a bad decision on an expensive boat!
    Rob
     
  3. carterchapman

    carterchapman Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 25, 2008
    Lake Chickamauga/Marietta, GA/Ft. Myers, FL
    2006 Sea Ray 58 DB
    MAN CRM V8-900s, Twin Disc Drives; Onan 21.5 Generator
    Robf - I have an Onan 21.5kw genny and the impellers last 600 hrs (3 oil changes) - they are still in good shape when I change them. Maintenance plan says change every 500 hours...
     
  4. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    Rob,

    I did a bare boat charter on a 44 DB a few years ago that had gas engines.

    Not nearly as much torque. Spinning smaller wheels, close quarter maneuvering alone would be my reason for going diesel.

    All kinds of discussion around diesels vs gas on here, not going to revisit what is in other threads.

    For this size boat, I would want diesels. Just my opinion.

    800 hours means it is broken in. Still a lot of life.

    if you proceed forward with the boat, definitely have a certified Cummins Tech do a separate from the hull survey - money very well spent.

    That is the key with Diesels. It is not that total cost is greater, its that you have to pay attention and do service when specified. I am going to guess, most of the high $ horror stories are from situations where service was ignored.
     
    Carpediem44DB and techmitch like this.
  5. FootballFan

    FootballFan Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Florida
    Marquis 59
    MTU Series 60
    I would ultimately defer to @fwebster, my opinion, the problem with diesels is when they are started, then shut down without establishing a warmed up temp. I have always heard the blow out the carbon concept was addressed by periodically bringing them up to full throttle occasionally for a couple of minutes.

    Kinda perplexed by this in a way. Lots of years of experience with diesels on the farm with tractors and Semi Tractors. Other that my cousin and I winding up engines (read over revving) in the semi's - most of them never had the carbon blown out.

    25 mile trip I wouldn't worry about. Your up to operating temps. Push them up open occasionally. At the end of the days - over mid 30's in length, I am a diesel fan.
     
    Jaybeaux and techmitch like this.
  6. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    523
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    JoAna,If you want to do Plastidek they have a template that was made from my 06 44DB and it fit my friend's 04 420. Fly bridge, cockpit, stairs and heads cost me $4200 and was pretty easy to install and came out great!
     
    JoAna likes this.
  7. JoAna

    JoAna Member

    127
    Feb 10, 2018
    San Diego, CA
    2005 420DB
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3 450HP
    thanks for the info and links. - they were very helpful and Carpe diems boat is pretty nice so much so that I've decided to include flooring in both heads.
     
  8. Tomco

    Tomco Active Member

    258
    Aug 16, 2012
    Ottawa, Ontario
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge
    GHS Hydraulic Lift
    11' Walker Bay, 30hp
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    Agree, I too like how the flooring looks in Carpe's boat. It is on our list for this winter's boat show! I am pretty confident that we will go with Plasdek as I think it has a longer life expectancy than the EVA foam products and I really only want to do this once! Will focus on the cockpit and stairs first - not sure about the swim platform yet. For the heads, I made a custom mat out of mahogany
    upload_2019-10-22_7-47-32.jpg

    Look forward to seeing your upgrade when done.
     
    JoAna likes this.
  9. Tomco

    Tomco Active Member

    258
    Aug 16, 2012
    Ottawa, Ontario
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge
    GHS Hydraulic Lift
    11' Walker Bay, 30hp
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    Rob, we purchased our 2004 420DB fresh water boat a year ago and diesels are new to me as well. I had the Cummins tech poke one of those remote inspection cameras into each heat exchanger during the survey to check the condition. In my case, it looked brand new! Was a quick easy way to assess the condition. As for the aftercoolers - those I plan to take off and service this winter … I'm assuming they will look like the heat exchangers and don't anticipate any major problems (I probably just jinked myself! :)). I don't think mine have ever been serviced.

    As for the speed, I too read the comments that diesels like the higher loading and had the same concern/question as you - we enjoy the 7-8knt range. I came across a response to this question on the Seaboard Marine (www.sbmar.com) and Tony's response was to make sure it was propped correctly (not overloading) and go enjoy! no worries on the lighter load (1100 rpm is about 42% of max rpm, so without the load sensors, this is a good approximation). I do run it up on plane semi-regularly to 'blow it out'.

    Haven't had the boat long enough to comment on the Onan impellers … no problems thus far.

    Strongly agree with the other comments/guidance to have a Cummins tech to the engine survey. Gave me the confidence to close the deal, although I also recognize that I have some maintenance work to catch up on.

    Pre-purchase boat survey's are much different in Canada vs the US … my understanding is the US is much more comprehensive. Couple things got missed during ours - heat on the forward A/C doesn't work and the autopilot was disconnected. Make sure you (or the surveyor) check everything is working.

    Over the top happy with the boat and the engines! good luck.
     
  10. craigswardmtb

    craigswardmtb Member

    116
    Jul 2, 2013
    Mystic, CT
    2004 420 DB
    2005 360 Fiesta Vee
    Cummins 6CTA
    That's wild. I'm looking at a receipt from the previous owner and he paid 20k for Nuteak for the cockpit, swim platform and stairs to the bridge for my 420. Seems outrageous.
     
  11. JoAna

    JoAna Member

    127
    Feb 10, 2018
    San Diego, CA
    2005 420DB
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3 450HP

    I like the wood for inside the showers (would you make a couple on the side)??
     
  12. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    523
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    The pros do charge a lot of money for installation. It does take time to make a careful template but glueing down the floor is pretty simple. I have heard quotes of $80 per square foot installed. Plasdek charges $40 a foot for the finished product ready to ship. I don’t see paying $40/foot for installation. It took two of us a long morning to do the job, them’s good wages!
    Carpe Diem
     
  13. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Tomco, thank you so much for the information. Very helpful and encouraging, especially regarding the running speed. I will definitely include a Cummins tech on a survey if I get to that point. A surveyor I have used in the past is very thorough, but don't know his competence level on diesels. Continued good luck on the 420!
    Rob
     
  14. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    Cummins techs can hook up a computer and tell you every alarm that has ever been, how much time was spent running at various rpms, etc. They were great. They were late to my sea trial so Saunders Yachtworks sent two of them. They pulled the all of the fluid samples, sent them off, and then sent me and called me with the results. They did not come cheap, but money well spent. Changed the Onan impeller after one year in SW and one year in FW and it looked new. Installed the new one and kept the old for a spare.

    We have had the boat going on our 3rd year and the only thing that has “broken” is the galley refrigerator and the turntable motor on the microwave. I do all of my maintenance and never had an issue. She is a fine machine.

    Bennett
     
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  15. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Bennett, thanks so much. Funny your galley fridge went out as they just replaced the galley fridge in this one last year. Must have had issues with those models! I really appreciate all the input, getting closer to making that offer!
    Rob
     
  16. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Appreciate the input! That really helps! I am definitely getting closer!
    Rob
     
  17. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Thanks again, all the experience is very helpful!
    Rob
     
  18. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Thanks so much. Not sure why the constant changing of impellers in this case. May have to look into that. Rob
     
  19. Robf

    Robf Member

    266
    Apr 17, 2013
    Winfield, WV
    2004 390 Motor Yacht
    Twin 8.1 Mercruiser Inboards
    Follow up question, Tomco, can you tell me if the hydraulic swim platform degraded performance or not? What size tender do you put on the platform? I am considering either a platform or Freedom lift to haul a 500 RIB.
    Rob
     
  20. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    +1 on the wood grate in the shower.
     

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