420/44 DB Owners Club

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Alex F, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. Tenacious

    Tenacious Member

    63
    Jun 28, 2010
    Mystic, CT
    2005 420/455 DB
    Ray Marine E125 & E127
    Cummins 480 CE
    Onan 9kw genset
    Prop question. Does anyone know if the prop spec for the 2005DB 480CE's is precisely what is written in the parts manual? The manual states Teignbridge Nibral 26 X 26 X 2. I need LH for port side

    I broke shaft at key way just behind strut and lost prop. Occurred this past weekend. Luckily no other damage but now I am left to find a matching prop. I cannot locate anywhere and fear I may have to spring for two new props by another manufacture and deal with pitch tuning issues. The factory ones I have been running gave me 25 kts +/- at 2400 RPM. WOT was just over 2650 RPM. New shaft being made now but the prop might cause bigger issues.

    I know general area where I lost but did not record long/lat at the time. Stupidity on my part. I may still try to dive and locate if I cannot find replacement.

    Can anyone offer some insight? Thanks.
     
  2. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Looks like you are over propped anyway and would be wise to go down in pitch a bit to save yourself the agony of dropping a valve seat on one or both of your 480CEs. My friend was running 26X23.7 when just lost a seat a couple of weeks ago. He has no idea when his props were repitched but they certainly came from searay as 26x26. Call Kathy at Airmarine 773 582-0100. Very helpful and can set you up with what your boat needs for prop. Read up on the RPM/ Load relationship while you are dealing with your prop issue now. You may save yourself a lot of grief in the future.
    Cheers
     
  3. Keith Zibilich

    Keith Zibilich New Member

    14
    Nov 7, 2016
    New Orleans
    2005 Sea Ray 420 Sedan Bridge, Cummins 480CE, Raymarine E120w, Vessel View 4,
    Cummins 480CE Diesels
    Pulled my props six months ago and had them scanned and they were Teignbridge Nibral 26 X 26 X 2. I had the prop shop take out 1" of pitch to reduce my GPH consumption and get me to the proper RPMs.
     
  4. Tenacious

    Tenacious Member

    63
    Jun 28, 2010
    Mystic, CT
    2005 420/455 DB
    Ray Marine E125 & E127
    Cummins 480 CE
    Onan 9kw genset
    I've read a great deal about prop pitch on SBMAR. My RPMS do run at spec. (According to Tony) Perhaps you're right, if I need to secure two then maybe I'll take it in a different direction. Currently 25kts. +/- at 2400 RPM. What do you run BTW? Finding this prop is looking next to impossible. I may have to switch to another brand. We use Hale here in New England. They are very good at what they do. Keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks.
     
  5. Tenacious

    Tenacious Member

    63
    Jun 28, 2010
    Mystic, CT
    2005 420/455 DB
    Ray Marine E125 & E127
    Cummins 480 CE
    Onan 9kw genset

    In doing so what are RPM's and speed at cruise. What are RPM's at WOT? How many hours on your engines? Thanks.
     
  6. Tenacious

    Tenacious Member

    63
    Jun 28, 2010
    Mystic, CT
    2005 420/455 DB
    Ray Marine E125 & E127
    Cummins 480 CE
    Onan 9kw genset
    Seem there is a new development. Despite the spec sheet for 2005 420 DB stating the props for the 480CE's were Teignbridge, my prop people are telling me the surviving starboard prop is actually a Michigan. That's a beautiful thing as they are abudant.

    Anyone else have first hand knowledge of the OEM props on their boat? Curious why Sea Ray specs say one thing but another is present.
     
  7. Keith Zibilich

    Keith Zibilich New Member

    14
    Nov 7, 2016
    New Orleans
    2005 Sea Ray 420 Sedan Bridge, Cummins 480CE, Raymarine E120w, Vessel View 4,
    Cummins 480CE Diesels
    I run at 2150 RPMs at about 20 Kts.
    My WOT RPMs are 2670.
    Engines have 440 hours on them.

    When I purchase my boat eight months ago I read Tony's website and consulted with him before my purchased. We found that the raw water system had substantial scaling so we removed the entire raw water system on both engines and sent the parts out to the radiator shop. We have everything descaled pressure checked reinstalled back on the boat with a fresh coolant change. I also replaced both raw water pumps with the SMX pumps. On these 480CE engines GPH, Load Factor and RPMs are very important but, if the raw water system is not up to the task you significantly increase the odds of dropping a valve.
     
  8. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Tenacious, I have the 500 HDs in my 2006 44. I have 24/27 Michigan Wheel props and this weekend ran at 21 mph @ 2200 RPM and burning 26 gph. @ 2200 RPM The smartcraft had the % of power at 60. At WOT I run 2680 and show 90% power and run 32 Mph burning 48gph.
     
  9. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Howdy fellow 44DB owners! Hoping to be joining your ranks soon with an offer in on an '08. Just as I did before buying my last two Sea Rays, I have read everything I can about this particular model on CSR. Awesome resource once again.

    Survey, mechanical inspection, and sea trial are booked for next week. Any and all advice as I attempt to close this one will be gladly accepted!
     
  10. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    May go with out saying but do a careful Power setting analysis during your sea trial. Record RPM, Fuel burn, and % of power every 1 or 2 hundred RPM from 2000 to WOT and compare to the power curve for the engine specs found on Boat diesel.com to determine how the boat is currently propped. Hopefully the boat will come with good MX records.
    Good luck, hope all goes well
     
  11. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Thanks Carpe. Will do, or will make sure the surveyor does...although I just read through your other thread about surveys! I apparently have a really good guy doing the survey; I hope so!
     
  12. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Welcome to the DB world. We love ours and have had zero buyers remorse!
    Rusty
     
  13. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Thanks Rusty! We are hopeful everything comes together.

    Brian
     
  14. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    So we closed the deal on our new (to us) Sea Ray. Lots of learning to do!

    20170901_133313.jpg

    First of all though, important questions from the Admiral!

    Can anyone tell me what size of fitted sheets / mattress pads work best on the v-berth and mid-cabin?

    Thank you,
    Brian
     
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  15. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    I put king on the forward berth as queens don't stay on due to the odd shape. Queens fit just fine on the guest cabin when made up with filler cushions. Otherwise singles will fit.
    For the forward berth there are companies that make custom shaped sheet sets if you want to spend the money. We put a memory foam topper on ours and a king sheet and it works well and is much more comfortable.
    Love the blue hull, kind of a chore to keep it looking sharp though!
    Congratulations on your new addition to the family.
     
  16. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Thank you Carpe! We take delivery on Monday and are pretty excited! The hull is actually black. I wasn't sure about it at first, but it has been really well maintained and the look has grown on me!
     
  17. Jeff L

    Jeff L Member SILVER Sponsor

    48
    Aug 10, 2015
    NJ Shore
    2005 42 Sedan, Onan gen. 10' Rib dinghy w/ 6hp,
    Dual Raymarine es127, quantum radar, Evolution AP
    T 450 Cummins straight drives
    Thought I would pick up on this thread... Any comments on overpropping concerns with Acme 26x25
    2005 42' 6cta 8.3 ?
     
  18. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    201
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine E120 radar chart plotter GPS autopilot
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Conventional wisdom seems to dictate that if you can turn about 100 rpm over your engines spec at Wide open throttle then you should be ok.
    Cheers
     
  19. bajturner

    bajturner Member GOLD Sponsor

    504
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge, Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40, Highfield CL290 RIB w/ Tohatsu 9.8
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Bit of a long post here, lots of new things to understand!

    So we finally got our new purchase up to the chilly water up North. Fairly uneventful trip, other than a partially submerged tug boat in the one of the Erie Canal locks.

    Boat ran well, with only one real issue, and a couple of observations. I am hoping to get some opinions and advice on them.

    We left Plymouth, MA and the boat ran well with no unusual readings the first day. The second day as we were getting close to NYC, I noticed a differential in the boost pressures. On the sea trial, both engines were showing around 60 psi +/- 1 psi at 2400rpm. This was also what we saw on day 1. On day 2, the port boost dropped to around 28-30 psi. Engine performed identically, no smoke, etc. Tried WOT, right on at 2680 RPM. Everything stayed the same until day 4 when the starboard boost also dropped to 28-30 psi. No change in performance.

    20 hours of motoring later and they are still both within 1 psi of each other, around 28-29 psi at 2300-2400 RPM. I spoke to the gentleman who did the engine inspection (Doug Gorham at Gorham's Diesel...great guy, BTW), and he doesn't think it is anything to be concerned about. Any opinions? Reading other posts, it seems around 30 psi is typical. I am curious what others see, and what may explain the 60 psi readings we initially saw.

    Another observation is that at around 800-1000 RPM, there is a small shake or shudder...I would describe it almost as a wobble. It is not present at idle speeds nor once up on plane. I was able to isolate it to the starboard engine. The marine surveyor showed me some play in the starboard cutlass bearing, and stated in his report "The starboard propeller shaft strut cutlass bearing found to have some minor play when checked. It is suggested cutlass bearing be renewed winter layup 2018-19".

    I am new to straight shafts and cutlass bearings. Would it make sense that what I am experiencing is due to the cutlass bearing? The boat didn't get much use the last couple of seasons...it is possible the bearing deteriorated quickly with the fairly rigorous use of quickly getting north.

    Last one, and this was the most significant, although there was an easy work-around. About halfway through the trip it was noticed the engine alternators were not putting out any volts. It seemed surprizing to me that both would fail. They were confirmed operational during the survey / inspection. It was masked somewhat as we were running pretty much all the time with the generator running, and the battery charger on.

    A few points and questions about this:
    - We did have the house battery charger on when underway. Unnecessary, I know, but being new to the boat and not confident about what batteries were charged by what (e.g. is the generator battery only charged when the charger is on, or does the generator itself charge it, etc.), we left it on under the presumption it would not harm anything. Bad presumption?
    - At no time were the battery solenoids turned off.
    - The belts were replaced by the marina before we left (based on advice from this and the QSC-500 thread!), and confirmed installed correctly.
    - The problem was highlighted when the generator was not run one day, and the batteries ran down after about 10 hours...kind of quickly, I thought.
    - Only getting about 12.4V (then slowly dropping) on both engines when underway (and no charger on), and there is no SmartCraft fault, which is strange.
    - Could a faulty battery, isolator, or solenoid be the culprit?
    - I will measure voltage directly at the alternators this weekend, but I assume the reading will be the same as what is reported by SmartCraft. Is this logical?
    - Am I missing something obvious here?

    As always, this forum is an incredible resource and wealth of information!

    Brian
     
  20. Pura Vida dos

    Pura Vida dos New Member

    1
    Oct 23, 2017
    2005 420 Sedan Bridge, Highfield 340 on Freedom Lift, Garmin 7212
    Cummins 480CE
    New Guy to the club,
    New to the forum and new 420 Sedan bridge owner.
    Purchased a 2005 420 Sedan Bridge "Pura Vida dos" In July! Love it!
    Blue Hull, Cummins 480ce's w/200 hours. Mods / upgrades since purchase, Garmin 7612 chartplotter, Simrad vhs w/AIS Rocna 55lb anchor,led bulbs & lights throughout, Custom bamboo flooring in salon, galley & dinette. Also Freedom Lift tender lift to carry Highfield CL340 with euro console & 25hp Suzuki.

    SeaRay.JPG


    Previous boat "Pura Vida" a 1987 410 Aft cabin wCrusader 454's. She served us well for great Michigan summers & a full year on the great loop!

    Now headed south with the new boat, Northern summers are so short.
    In the words of Jimmy Buffett
    "I Gotta go where it's warm!"

    Thanks for all the great info on the forum, Happy boating!
     

    Attached Files:

    Walshy likes this.

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