420/44 DB Owners Club

It is brand new to me as of today. The existing hole will need to be made larger. Labor was 1250.00 at my boatyard . I’m all in about $1500.00. It was not a preference it was a necessity. Old girl came off on a Bimini crossing last month.

 

Hi Tom,
I'd like to be able to power microwave, outlets which in the galley power coffee maker, countertop ice maker; other outlets power tv, laptop, chargers for phones/iPads/etc, small fans in the flybridge. If using the 24volt thruster batteries, also power the 12 volt charger as needed to keep those batteries charged since all DC powered items would be drawing on those batteries. The galley and cockpit refrigerators will work on 12 volt as well as 120 volt so I could go either way on those. Really the only two things I would not try to run on inverter would be the air conditioner or water heater.
I do understand what your saying about the solar, but based on a couple friends actual information about what they are getting out of quality solar panels, I know it's not a full replacement of consumed energy but it sure reduces the amount of generator time considerably, and the little bit of time we enjoyed anchored with no generator noise when we didn't need ac or water heater sure was nice.
I get the redundancy of separate inverter and chargers, but like you said on the Victron they are so reliable anymore that it shouldn't be a factor. The other thought I had as to keeping the old or replacing the old charger with combo inverter charger is just me thinking about the old charger being old and how much longer will it last vs a new unit that theoretically would last as long as I'd be keeping this boat.

 

My gut says a 3KW inverter/charger will suffice. But, you really need to add the combined loads (things that will run at the same time) then multiply that value by 1.1 to obtain the minimum inverter size.
Then the load combination needs to be evaluated for total amperage over the time between charging; this will give you the basic battery bank size requirement. If using the bow thruster battery bank for an inverter a circuit needs to be installed to disable the inverter when the bow thruster is active; for Victron this is an easy configuration. Assume no parallel charging (solar cells) in the analysis to size the battery bank.
I'm guessing here, but the battery bank for lead acid batteries needs to be around 400 Ah which gives 200 Ah useable. The use of the bow thruster is a big factor that could easily double this. For lithium batteries around 300 Ah but be darn sure you don't exceed the allowable discharge rate as the battery's BMS will trip them off line. Not good if you are needing the bow thruster.
My best guess is a Victron Multiplus-II 24/3000/70-50 which has a 50A transfer switch that seamlessly transfers between shore/generator and inverter. I would also install a 500A Victron Smart shunt with Victron Cerbo and GX50 Touch. For your solar cells you will need a charge controller and for that I'd install a Victron MPPT 100/30.
All of this integrates with the Cerbo which gives you access to data and setup through the Touch 50, your cell phone (bluetooth) or your home computer via VRM direct.
Long winded but I hope it helps..
Tom

 

Hi Tom,
Yes most definitely helps. I hadn’t thought of an interrupt circuit while using bow thruster.
I do have a Victron smart shunt on the 12v side going through BMV 712. Will look at the other smart shunt for the 24 volt if I end up doing inverter on 24 volt side.

Thanks again for the info,
Victor

 

Microwave can be tough. 1000W load results in almost 100A at 12VDC or 50A at 24VDC, once passed through an inverter. It's a pretty big draw which derates a small battery bank fairly significantly.

 

The Ray Marine VHF has finally reached the end of its life. The cord is patched up and the one guy who was making replacement cords is not doing it any more. Besides, I wanted a new VHF with GPS in it and AIS.

I may not use AIS right now but may in the future.

I mounted it in place of the Autopilot. The Autopilot was too far away anyhow and the Navigator didn't need it front of her. It will be moved to the spot between the shifters and the steering wheel.

Anyhow, It is a Standard Horizon GX2400B. I had good luck with a previous version of this model on the 380.

I was trying to get an icom black box model to save dash space but they were out indefinitely. I had one on order from April and it was still out to December but that was a maybe. Plus, the icom was not a GPS model as it turns out.

The Autopilot is a newer model and had a Starboard plate over the fiberglass dash. I made a new one to fit the radio and put screws in the corners to hold it down. The Autopilot plate was gooped on with clear silicone. So the edges and corners were not held down.

 

So here are a couple of pictures of the Autopilot moved to under the wheel and the rest of the Port side of the dash. Just waiting for an extended cable for the VHF antenna. Should be here tomorrow.





Oh, and I added the mount for the microphone where I was holding it in the previous posting.

I vacuumed and dusted as there is a bunch of fiberglass dust on everything.

LG111 (Mark) had a laugh about that dust!

 

I added the same VHF last season for much of the same reasons you listed. I have mine tied into the N2K network and it will display the AIS targets on the MFD's. We might add AIS at some point but at least we can get those with AIS displayed. I did have some challenges with CPA alarm, would set to 1nm but it would jump to 24 and was constantly going off ... finally got it to settle down this season (not 100% which setting made the difference but support couldn't figure it out).

Mounted mine is pretty much the same spot! I think you will be happy with your choice.

 

Interesting how the dashboards are laid out differently.

I turned off the CPA and the other alarm...even sitting in the slip. it was driving me nuts.

Tracking other boats via AIS is pretty redundant. In the fog, it would be helpful but only if the other boats had AIS. I worry mostly about the smaller fishing boats that do not show up as well on radar. I don't think most of them have AIS...or even a VHF radio.

Tom, did you make the adapter panels for your Garmin chartplotters? I could not find any so I made the entire dash panel out of Starboard. It does calm down the 1980s wood grain effect!

Cheers!

 

When I purchased the boat the centre mfd had already been replaced and you can see the adapter panel (it is actually a box with supports behind) - it was made by Tecnografic. When I changed the port side an adapter plate wouldn't have looked right (more on top and a sliver on the sides) so I went with a new panel (again from Tecnografic). Wasn't cheap but I wanted to look like factory and they did an amazing job ... you can't tell one is new and the other is 18yrs.

 

It looks like they used the Sea Ray Navigator cover to mount the center MFD. Seems like a pretty good idea. Tecnografic quoted me $400 to make a new dash panel with cut outs for the gauges and a Raymarine Axiom+ 12. I’m waiting to see if there are any Raymarine sales over the winter.

 

Hey Tim, it will be interesting to see what your find in the Raymarine world. I was not happy with the upgrade path. In certain instances, there are some capabilities in the Raymarine products that far exceed most recreational boaters.

One time when we were through Orlando we stopped at the Regal factory. We ran into the Regal Captain, Frank. He said they wholesale switched to Garmin. Raymarine could not do some function they wanted. Garmin could.

We have always liked the ease of use on the Garmin...but we do not want to dig in super deep. It needs to be sorta easy to use.

Keep us posted!

 

I’m locked into Raymarine since the previous owner replaced the radar in 2019, so I would just need to replace the MFDs. Raymarine also has a good YouTube series demonstrating the Axiom line and networking. So far it looks like it will have everything I would plan to setup and then some. I already have some of my engine inputs displaying on my E120. I’d like to add EGT and Boost since this is not a Smart Craft setup. I don’t know if I would get to the augmented reality camera setup, but it looks pretty cool. You really can get carried away with this stuff. To be honest, I am kind of amused by the Sea Ray Navigator, but the screen space could be put to better use.

 

How you are getting this data since it seems you have the mechanical 450?

 

I did go for the Raymarine Augmented Reality option. Very cool, especially for identifying navigation markers in unfamiliar waters.

 

I used a Noland Engineering analog to NMEA converter. So far so good. The tachs are perfect.

 

Looks great…..Is that a 16” MDF on the left and at 12” MDF on the right?

 

Do you mind sharing a link? I tried with acrossoceans analog converter this past season and I just couldn’t get it dialed in.

 

https://nolandeng.com/

Look at the RS-11. I think it works well, but it is a little sensitive when large amp loads kick in, ie grid heaters.

 

Good guess !

I stayed with Raymarine because of the Autopilot - But in the end I replaced that too..