420/44 DB Owners Club

This is the wiring diagram for my 2008. I would bet you 2005 is pretty much the same.

upload_2022-9-27_14-51-38.png


The only things shown between the batteries and the engines/alternators are the emergency crossover and the main solenoids.
 
This is the wiring diagram for my 2008. I would bet you 2005 is pretty much the same.

View attachment 134588

The only things shown between the batteries and the engines/alternators are the emergency crossover and the main solenoids.

Thanks! Looks super simple. I guess I’m pulling the alternators this weekend. There is a rebuild shop close by. He said he would test first a rebuild if needed. I believe it is a Delco Remy 22 SI 130 amp 3 wire. At least that is what I found in a search. He was familiar so that was a good sign.
 
Replaced both of ours last season for the 160 amp version I believe. They were both bad. Was told that if your batteries were not up to snuff the grid heaters tend to kill the alternators.
 
You can check voltage off the back of the alternator.
I rebuilt port side this summer. Pretty easy job. Replaced regulator and brushes with oem parts, maybe $40
 
Replaced both of ours last season for the 160 amp version I believe. They were both bad. Was told that if your batteries were not up to snuff the grid heaters tend to kill the alternators.

When I got the boat last year the batteries were shot. I replaced all of them last winter. I guess it is possible the grid heaters took out the alternators. I know you can pull the fuse to deactivate the grid heaters, but I’d like to find a way to install a deactivation switch without cutting up the wire harness.
 
May be a silly question but any idea why the failure rate of the alternators appears to be so high? I’m assuming engine hours isn’t a factor but
 
I’m ok with DIY projects, so I’m planning to do some basic maintenance on my 2004 420 Sedan Bridge. Haven’t done any of this before. I do have a few questions that I hope some of you with more experience than I can help with. Engines are Cummings 6CTA
There are three filters on each engine

1. On the long oil filter, do you fill it with oil before spinning it on? Part number LF14009nn
2. On the water filter, can I just spin it off or do I need to close something off? Part number wf2073
3. On the water filter, do I fill it up prior to installing it? If so, water, antifreeze, 50/50 mix?
4. On the fuel filter, part #FF5285. Do I fill new filter with fuel? Do I need to close pet cocks before removing filter.

It has an Onan genset.

Oil filter looks self explanatory
5. Again, on the fuel filter/water separator can I just spin it off and do I fill the new one up with diesel?

Impellers
6. I read several posts on this. Do most of you do this yourself or leave to professionals?
 
I’m ok with DIY projects, so I’m planning to do some basic maintenance on my 2004 420 Sedan Bridge. Haven’t done any of this before. I do have a few questions that I hope some of you with more experience than I can help with. Engines are Cummings 6CTA
There are three filters on each engine

1. On the long oil filter, do you fill it with oil before spinning it on? Part number LF14009nn
2. On the water filter, can I just spin it off or do I need to close something off? Part number wf2073
3. On the water filter, do I fill it up prior to installing it? If so, water, antifreeze, 50/50 mix?
4. On the fuel filter, part #FF5285. Do I fill new filter with fuel? Do I need to close pet cocks before removing filter.

It has an Onan genset.

Oil filter looks self explanatory
5. Again, on the fuel filter/water separator can I just spin it off and do I fill the new one up with diesel?

Impellers
6. I read several posts on this. Do most of you do this yourself or leave to professionals?

Hi Bob, I have the same boat/engines and do my maintenance.
1. Correct, following oil change procedures (running to temp) when replacing the filter you would fill the new one with fresh oil. For reference, I use the LF9009 filters.
2,3. Each year I use the Cummins coolant test strips to test the coolant first - it will provide guidance if a filter with a higher SCA is required. Last time I changed mine I did NOT fill it first. I just made sure there was sufficient coolant in the reservoir.
4. Just changed mine yesterday! yes, they need to be filled with clean fuel when installing and no the flow valve on the tank does not need to be closed (it does if you change the racers). You want to avoid any air in the system, otherwise you will need to bleed the lines. I've been fortunate that filling it to overflow level and carefully installing it I've not had to bleed the lines.
5. ditto
6. I change mine. You will need the extractor tool (or appropriate sized bolt) and installation is made much easier with an installation tool (this is the one I have: www.impellertool.com). The stbd side is pretty straightforward the port is more challenging. I find that removing the pump (2 bolts) and 'folding' the hose back over on itself puts the impeller facing straight up and easier to change than doing it blind.

Good luck with the maintenance ... its not hard, you will feel more comfortable after doing it once.
 
4. Just changed mine yesterday! yes, they need to be filled with clean fuel when installing and no the flow valve on the tank does not need to be closed (it does if you change the racers). You want to avoid any air in the system, otherwise you will need to bleed the lines. I've been fortunate that filling it to overflow level and carefully installing it I've not had to bleed the lines.
5. ditto
Hey Tom, I assume the process may be different with the 6CTA vs the QSCs on my boat. For QSC fuel filters, the recommendation is the spin-ons do not get filled as this would result in non-filtered fuel reaching the injectors. Instead, they are filled by cycling the lift pumps. The Racors get filled, though.

Is there any concern about contamination with the fuel you pre-fill the spin-ons with? Perhaps the 6CTAs are not as sensitive to this?
 
I fill the outer ring of holes when I prefill the fuel filter. This way the fuel is filtered. It takes a few minutes longer but i can’t see there being any fuel injector problems this way.

upload_2022-9-29_10-28-11.jpeg
 
Hey Tom, I assume the process may be different with the 6CTA vs the QSCs on my boat. For QSC fuel filters, the recommendation is the spin-ons do not get filled as this would result in non-filtered fuel reaching the injectors. Instead, they are filled by cycling the lift pumps. The Racors get filled, though.

Is there any concern about contamination with the fuel you pre-fill the spin-ons with? Perhaps the 6CTAs are not as sensitive to this?
Hi Brian, good clarification. On the 6CTA's it would take about a week using the on-engine manual primer to fill the filter! For those of us without an electronic option, the 'risks' of a quart of semi-filtered fuel seem manageable. Technically, it is always best to filter but ... practicality wins out, for me, with this engine. Based on the image that Tim posted, looks like Cummins procedure is to pre-fill the filter (on the 6CTA).
 
Hi Brian, good clarification. On the 6CTA's it would take about a week using the on-engine manual primer to fill the filter! For those of us without an electronic option, the 'risks' of a quart of semi-filtered fuel seem manageable. Technically, it is always best to filter but ... practicality wins out, for me, with this engine. Based on the image that Tim posted, looks like Cummins procedure is to pre-fill the filter (on the 6CTA).
You Have to prefill the filters on the QSM's there is no primer or lift pump and the filter cans are big. There are no issues filling the filter with clean fuel. BTW the injectors have filter screens also so with good process the risk is very low to prefill the final filter. I pour fuel into a small transfer container through a Mr. Funnel filter then fill the filter.
 
...Is there any concern about contamination with the fuel you pre-fill the spin-ons with? Perhaps the 6CTAs are not as sensitive to this?

I use a funnel with bounty folded in a shape of a coffee filter, so when I prefill, the fuel is actually pretty clean. I'm using the fuel from the filter that I'm taking off. This way I don't need to worry about any remaining fuel and have clean fuel going into the new filter.

I do all my filters at the same time. When I'm ready, it takes me 30 seconds on the manual pump to get the air out and push the fuel into the pump.

...I pour fuel into a small transfer container through a Mr. Funnel filter then fill the filter.

Tom,
That's pretty cool filter. I've never seen it. It sure makes the job easy to filter raw fuel.
 
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A question on changing the transmission oil. Got my port side done relatively easy (albeit, messy) but the stbd side ... that is a different story. I can access the drain plug but it is near physically impossible to reach under the transmission to clean up any mess. Wondering how others do it? does an oil pump thru the dipstick work?

I can see plumbing it into the Reverso would make it a lot easier.
 
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There are a number of fluid extractors available. I have the one that is $94.99 at HF. I also used to have a blue can...a Topsider but it wore out. I like the one I have from HF plus there are lots of different ones available on Amazon. They look pretty much the same...and are cheaper.

Is there any downside to the vacuum type extractor?

Also, what is the transmission oil change interval? When I check the fluid level, the oil looks really clean. Of course, there is no compression or ignition...!
 
A question on changing the transmission oil. Got my port side done relatively easy (albeit, messy) but the stbd side ... that is a different story. I can access the drain plug but it is near physically impossible to reach under the transmission to clean up any mess. Wondering how others do it? does an oil pump thru the dipstick work?

I can see plumbing it into the Reverso would make it a lot easier.
Tom, did you remove and clean the filter? The port one looks to be a PIA.
 
There are a number of fluid extractors available. I have the one that is $94.99 at HF. I also used to have a blue can...a Topsider but it wore out. I like the one I have from HF plus there are lots of different ones available on Amazon. They look pretty much the same...and are cheaper.

Is there any downside to the vacuum type extractor?

Also, what is the transmission oil change interval? When I check the fluid level, the oil looks really clean. Of course, there is no compression or ignition...!

I think the only downside may be getting the last little bit of "crap" off of the very bottom of the case. I used the vacuum extractor for the 3-4 years we owned the QSCs and never an issue. If I had to do it all over again, I would have drained it with the extractor, removed the drain plug and inserted a fitting with a hose on it. Next time, hook up to the hose and pull the fluid out of the drain. This is what I have done on the current ones.

As for the interval, we are on a freshwater lake and typically put 50-75 hours on the boat/year. I always change when purchased and then change them every other year. Fluid always looked new and never anything on the filter/magnet.

Bennett

Bennett
 
I went through the dip stick with a section of copper tube. It is ridged yet bendable to get to the bottom of the trans.

There are a number of fluid extractors available. I have the one that is $94.99 at HF. I also used to have a blue can...a Topsider but it wore out. I like the one I have from HF plus there are lots of different ones available on Amazon. They look pretty much the same...and are cheaper.

Is there any downside to the vacuum type extractor?

Also, what is the transmission oil change interval? When I check the fluid level, the oil looks really clean. Of course, there is no compression or ignition...!

I think you both have answered my question - that you can use a vacuum extractor to change the oil. I wasn't sure if the tube would reach the bottom or get hung up on the gears.

As for interval, the user manual states to change the oil every 250hrs (or annually) and to clean the suction filter every 250hrs (or 6 mths).
 
Tom, did you remove and clean the filter? The port one looks to be a PIA.
Hi Dean, nope! had my hands full getting the oil changed and ran out of time. I have the socket but I still have to grind down the chamfer as recommended. I've seen a comment somewhere on the forum that the fiberglass dam that is across that area needs to be ground down in order to get a socket on it and have the room to remove. When I was searching options to remove the oil I did see a comment from Frank Webster where he explained that you should use several containers of cleaning fluid and move the filter from one to the other - the last one should be completely clean with no particles to know the filter is clean. This would also let you see what kind of particles the filter may be capturing and be a early detector of any problems. Thought is was sound advice.
 

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