420/44 DB Owners Club

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Alex F, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. bajturner

    bajturner Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    842
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    Good to know. Do you have any details on the replacement? Does the entire portlight unit come out or can just the interior frame be replaced, along with the glass?
     
  2. my3sons

    my3sons Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 24, 2009
    NY (Lake Erie)
    2004 400DB, Onan 9 kw Gen, Highfield RIB,
    Cummins 6CTA M-3
    The original portlights frames were of a plastic construction, the replacement opening type is of stainless construction, so totally different. The ones I replaced were in the master on the starboard side. I have no idea why they cracked but when I removed them, the plastic frames under the finish bezel was found to be deteriorating. Some of the screw stantions had actually broke off on their own and that may have contributed to the lens cracking? I don't know, but the replacement was easy. I replaced the forward most one right after I purchased the boat in the off season, the fixed type was still available. The rear most one cracked somewhere between Ft Myers beach and Marathon 2 years ago. When they cracked, they were still water tight.
    Removed the screws inside (mine were the type that does not have screws on the outside trim ring), That gets the inside trim ring off. Use a razor knife carefully and fishing line to cut the sealant under the stainless outside ring and the lens comes off with that from the outside IIRC. Clean everything up and seal the opening with epoxy, then set the new unit in the hole and trace around it with a pencil, then tape around that so the sealant doesnt make a big mess. Apply the sealant, snug down the screws inside and you're done. You can use the sealant of your choice or butyl tape. I used 4000UV.
    I don't have pictures on this computer of the first replacement, which are quite detailed, but I have a couple that the admiral shot of the one I did in Marathon.

    This lens is cracked but it's hard to see in the picture.
    IMG_0198.JPG

    IMG_E1860.JPG

    IMG_E1862.JPG

    I took this pic a few days after the install, the angle is weird because I just stuck the phone out over the side from the deck
    IMG_0199.JPG

    It's a half day job except for the epoxy cure time.
    Edit: I should have added that no fasteners go into the fiberglass, the design is such that the hull is sandwiched between the outer ring and inner ring. tightening down the screws "clamps" the hull between them. For that reason, I chose an adhesive sealant over the butyl tape. I figured it might make for a more secure installation should I ever brush up against a piling or whatever, Some type of adheasive sealant is also what was on there from the factory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
    Doc O Rock and bajturner like this.
  3. Tomco

    Tomco Active Member

    342
    Aug 16, 2012
    Ottawa, Ontario
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge
    GHS Hydraulic Lift
    11' Walker Bay, 30hp
    Cummins 6CTA 8.3M
    On second thought, my AC is NOT connected to the inverter (neither is the stove or water heater) due to the draw ... so, I won't be able to try it.
     
  4. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    Any of you local fellas looking to redo your bridge enclosure and willing to part with your old aft panels please let me know. Had my panels redone a few seasons ago and wanted to keep my old panels for winter storage covers but the shop through away my aft panels. So now i'm looking for an old set no matter color or how beat up to use early and late season. Thought about having a strictly canvas panel made but its not that critical for me to spend the money on that project.
     
  5. Bottom Line

    Bottom Line Well-Known Member

    Oct 6, 2006
    Table Rock Lake(Branson MO)
    2003 360 DA
    2002 Sea Doo GTI (sold)
    2002 300 DA (sold)
    Twin Mercruiser 8.1L
    Westerbeke Generator
    Last summer, I saw the owner of a 2004 420DB in the parking lot at our marina (boat is on the dock next to ours) and mentioned to him, that if he ever thought about selling to let me know. Last week he called me and said he is thinking about selling and left a set of keys on the boat and said go look at it when we had time. We went last Saturday and looked at the boat. The boat is still winterized. I wasn't really in the market for a 420DB, but having one show up, local to me has me now has me a bit interested. The boat is always been in freshwater, on our lake, and in a covered slip since it was new. The engines have about 240 hours and gen has about 500 hours. I have read through this thread over the last few nights. I have owned a 360DA for about 10 years and do alot of my own maintenance (oil changes, spark plugs, etc), but looking at the diesel engines is intimidating. I know nothing about diesel engines...and honestly the cost of some of the repairs I have read about is intimidating. So I have some questions. If we end up buying the boat, there will be alot more and of course a survey. According to the Sea Ray spec sheet the boat has Cummins 6CTA 8.3 engines or optional 480CE, but is there a plate on the engines somewhere that indicate what the engines are? To do maintenance, do you open the floor in the salon or just crawl into the bilge from the cockpit door? Since we are on a lake, it is not always possible to run on plane. Will there be any engine damage if we cruise 900-1100 rpms (will this be enough load on the engines)? For you that wash your own boat, how do you access the outside of the bridge eisenglass to dry and remove water spots? Should any Cummins shop(even though not marine specific)be able to needed repairs?
    This boat does not have the aft seat in the cockpit that I have seen in other pictures...what that an option?

    Thanks for any feedback.
     
  6. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    Wow, those are insanely low hours for that year boat, but on a lake its understandable. I don't think the 450CTE was common in the 04 rather started with the 05 but if it was an option its possible. May not even be an issue if the boat never really ran at cruise for most of its life. From what I can tell the CTE has the wastegate on the turbo while the 450C does not. However not sure if there is a tag/branding difference. Opening the floor in the salon makes maintenance much easier but I only open for major maintenance and winterization. Cleaning the eisenglass is a pain to clean but depending on your U shape cutouts its not too bad to reach through from the inside out. We run at 8-10knts half the time but we do get up on plane the last few miles of the trip to get the rpms/temps up. Not sure how the turbos would fair not being spooled up.
     
    Bottom Line likes this.
  7. my3sons

    my3sons Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 24, 2009
    NY (Lake Erie)
    2004 400DB, Onan 9 kw Gen, Highfield RIB,
    Cummins 6CTA M-3
    As far as the diesel questions go, I understand your concerns with the diesels. It's perfectly normal to be hesitant when you don't know anything about them and then read that if they blow up it'll cost you 30 grand.
    Service costs: I don't cringe anymore when I see what others pay for routine service, I have come to realize that if they are paying it for these motors, it's because they choose to and they can, not because they have to, and that's great!
    Maintenance: I also owned a 360 with the 8.1's before the diesels. Maintenance is much easier with the 6CTA M-3 diesels because there is less to go wrong. No sensors or electronic modules to fail or misread on the smartcraft (because there is no smartcraft), no rinda tool required to diagnose why it's not running right. No tech to read codes. The reverso pumps make the oil changes a breeze, even with the extra oil required. Prop shaft stuff like shaft seals and coupler alignments are a breeze on the straight drives of the sedan bridge as compared to the v-drives of the 360.
    The beauty of these motors is that a beginner can do ALL of the routine required maintenance if they choose to. Fuel and oil filters, coolant filters, gear oil changes, impellers etc. No special tools needed, just a willingness to learn and it's all straight forward once you see how to do it. An intermediate level DIYer can do everthing required at the major sevice intervals, all you need over and above the everyday tool box stuff is a torque wrench and some feeler gauges to do the valve lash. The instructions are actually in the owners manual, it's that easy. Bolt ons like sea water pumps are way easier depending on which model Sea Ray you have for access, and you have this website to hear the "tricks" that we have all come up with to make things easier as it relates to the Sea Ray installs.
    The 6CTA M-4's which is the 480CE does have the electronic controlled fuel pump, which adds a little "electric" and therefore a very slight possibility of extra troubleshooting and adds more horse power to the all mechanical base engine, but they are reliable as well but are more prone to overloading concerns than the M-3. Cummins had an issue with valve seat material on the heads that would be of concern if the motors have been over propped and burning the additional fuel that the CE's burn to get that aditional HP. Some think that if purchasing a CE powered boat that has not had the valve seat issue addressed by replacing the heads with the improved version, that the purchase price of the boat should reflect the cost for that. Not cheap, others here can tell you what it may have cost them to have that done. If the boat has low hours and CE motors, it may have that issue. It would be nice if it wasn't a CE in my opinion, or a CE that has been fitted with the new heads...Great!
    But no diesel, no matter what brand engine, wants to be overloaded so it is absolutely neccessary to be sure it is propped correctly. The M-3 needs to reach 2700+ rpm at wot (it's rated at 2600) and the M-4 needs to reach rated wot easily at around 90% load. If your looking at a 2004, it most likely is the M-3 but could be the M-4. The data plate on the front gear case cover, fuel pump side, will tell you, or the electronic box on the fuel pump side of the M-4 engine is a dead givaway.
    With the boat being in fresh water it's whole life, you definitely have a leg up on some of the pitfalls and high cost of maintenance that you read about here and on other forums. Keep in mind that low hours sometimes equates to a lot of deferred maintenance and 14 hours/year is really low, but shouldn't be a concern if everything was maintained as if it was running a lot more hours. Again, fresh water is your friend here if things were allowed to slide a little. Aftercoolers, raw water system, belts, hoses, coolant changes etc are the concern, but those are concerns with gas engines too, but with diesel, the service costs more so negotiate the sale price accordingly if possible. If you are going to do it, your time is worth something.
    MY Opinion as far as engine loading: there is no harm in running them slow. My engines have over 2500 hours on them, about 2/3rds of that is at 1050 to 1150 rpm. Others will tell you that if you run like that, you need to run it up on plane for at least a few minutes at the end of the day. If it makes you feel better, do it, it certainly won't hurt anything. Just know that if you didn't get up on plane and run on any particular outing, or even gone several outings without running, it doesn't matter and you shouldn't lose sleep over it. I routinely transit the Erie canal, 350 miles, at 800 to 900 rpm (wake concerns, I would prefer to run 1050/1150) for 4 to 10 days with only Oneida Lake providing a 20 mile open water run. All of our long cruises on open water are done at that 1050 - 1150 rpm for 75 to 80 percent of the trip. I have never had an oil report come back saying I had moisture or fuel in my oil. Just make sure you are running it hard enough to keep the coolant temperature up to normal.
    Good luck!
     
    Bottom Line likes this.
  8. Mark.60

    Mark.60 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    207
    Sep 6, 2020
    Westbrook Connecticut
    2007 44 sedan bridge
    Cummins qsc 500
    Good for you, sometimes things just happen when least expected. You could go to seaboard.com read Tony’s tips. The article titled “ Marine age “ the real age of a marine diesel. They have a whole forum for cummins
     
    Bottom Line likes this.
  9. LG111

    LG111 Active Member

    647
    Jan 4, 2015
    NW
    44 Sedan Bridge - 07
    Black Hull
    QSC500’s
    Google 480 CE's. Lots to learn.
     
    Bottom Line likes this.
  10. Jeff Carrick

    Jeff Carrick New Member

    24
    Aug 8, 2020
    2006 44 Sedan Bridge
    Twin Cummins QSC 500
    Hey South Florida folks! I’m planning a trip to Key West from Miami and want to know if I can go the whole way On inside Florida bay route? When I do my chart plotting it takes me on the outside from Key Largo all the way to Key West. I have my draft set at 4 feet. If I change it to the spec sheet 3.8 feet it then planes my route to Florida bay on the inside. Has anyone done this trip And what is the recommended route?
     
  11. Mark.60

    Mark.60 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    207
    Sep 6, 2020
    Westbrook Connecticut
    2007 44 sedan bridge
    Cummins qsc 500
    Has anyone relocated the air compressor and tank for the kalenberg air horn ? I purchased a new compressor and looking at it could they have located it any further from the horn ? It’s not hard to get to because I still haven’t installed the new generator but now would be the time to put the new compressor under the dash. Any thoughts?
     
  12. SeasNT

    SeasNT Member

    65
    Jan 30, 2016
    Lake Erie
    44 DB 2006
    QSC 500
    I'll bet they put the compressor assembly in the stern because of the noise when it cycles. It would be pretty loud in the salon if it was over head. The admiral would not be happy. I had a generator in place so used an old yoga mat over the rudders to crawl back there and replace the air hose compression fittings.
     
    Mark.60 likes this.
  13. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2003 420DA, 6CTAs
    NA
    The thing is loud, but I would surely relocate it.

    Bennett
     
    Mark.60 likes this.
  14. bajturner

    bajturner Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    842
    Aug 17, 2010
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    2008 44 Sedan Bridge
    2017 Avon 380DL RIB w/ Yamaha 40
    2019 Sea-Doo GTX
    2020 Sea-Doo RXT-X
    Twin QSC-500 HO
    When the boat was new to me, the first few times it fired-up I had no idea was the noise was! Sounded like a big problem. Took quite a while before I figured it out...
     
    Mark.60 likes this.
  15. Jeff Carrick

    Jeff Carrick New Member

    24
    Aug 8, 2020
    2006 44 Sedan Bridge
    Twin Cummins QSC 500
    Good idea. Mine just quit and I. Have to figure it out!!! Post pics if you move it!!!
     
    Mark.60 likes this.
  16. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2003 420DA, 6CTAs
    NA
    If you did nothing more than move it to the port side of the swim platform, at least you could access it easier. Another very simple solution would be to install an electric horn. Wiring is already up in the arch. This would be plug/play....

    Bennett
     
    Mark.60 likes this.
  17. Mark.60

    Mark.60 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    207
    Sep 6, 2020
    Westbrook Connecticut
    2007 44 sedan bridge
    Cummins qsc 500
    So today I ran the air compressor on the bench in my garage.
    It was loud so I put it back in the original place. Thank you for all the input, I’m glad I didn’t make a mistake putting it under the dash. If it dies again I’ll take Bennett’s advice and go electric. Thanks again for all the help.
     
  18. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    I’ve actually never seen it on our boat. Where exactly was it located?
     
  19. Mark.60

    Mark.60 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    207
    Sep 6, 2020
    Westbrook Connecticut
    2007 44 sedan bridge
    Cummins qsc 500
    It’s on the stbd side, inside the swim platform.
     
  20. Irie308

    Irie308 Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    May 28, 2013
    CT
    2004 420 Sedan Bridge, GHS Hydraulic Lift
    Dual Raymarine E120W
    AB Mares 10 VSX with 30 hp Tohatsu
    Cummins 450C 8.3 L Turbocharged
    Have to check again but pretty sure I don’t have one back there. Is that possible? I do have the clear tubes attached to the horns d as o the must be getting air from so where.
     

Share This Page

Show Sidebar