420/44 DB Owners Club

The more pressing issue i have yet to investigate and could use some insights on, is while underway my forward bilge would turn on every 20 minutes or so when on plane. Before i put my inspector glasses on i figured i would check in with you guys to see if anyone else has had this happen and if there is a commonality on the culprit?? Again it only seems to happen when underway/on plane. Although i suppose it could be happening while not moving and i have just yet to realize it.
This will be next weekends project to chase down...
This happened to me, same boat, same year and the culprit was a bad fresh water pump. A seal inside the pump had gone and it was leaking pretty good when it ran. Water would run into the forward bilge, and then when you get on plane the water will slosh and trigger the alarm. Good news is the pumps are pretty cheap and easy to replace. Newer model pumps are a little louder than the original.
 
So first weekend, actually 5 nights, on the boat was great. We did a couple trips to Watch Hill/Napatree in RI and spent the night on the hook one night.
Of course it did not go without some issues. I had planned on replacing the rusty cockpit fridge with an Isotherm drawer unit. The cutout wasn't wide enough so it did require some jigsawing. The height was perfect though. As soon as i finished the install, the galley fridge must of had separation anxiety from its rusty counterpart and promptly kicked the bucket. Compressor was shot. So i ran to Defender and picked up a new Norcold. Fortunately it was in stock and we were back in action in a couple hours. Even managed to save most of the food...
The more pressing issue i have yet to investigate and could use some insights on, is while underway my forward bilge would turn on every 20 minutes or so when on plane. Before i put my inspector glasses on i figured i would check in with you guys to see if anyone else has had this happen and if there is a commonality on the culprit?? Again it only seems to happen when underway/on plane. Although i suppose it could be happening while not moving and i have just yet to realize it.
This will be next weekends project to chase down...
Just to ensure we are talking about the same pump, I am taking forward bilge to be the one under the steps just forward of the washing machine.

One thing I would check is that your shower sump is being drained properly. The overflow for the sump on my boat is a hose that drains to the forward bilge.

I am thinking if there's too much water remaining in the sump, when you are bow high, the level could be reaching that overflow. Shouldn't be very much water though.

If you are referring to the forward bilge in the engine room, I would check the transducer and the raw water sea strainer caps, housings, and clamps. Sea strainers is a little counter-intuitive to me though. On plane you are at higher rpm but I wouldn't think not necessarily higher water pressure there because the impellers are pulling not pushing water at that point in the system.

This logic may be wrong though...
 
Correct, the forward bilge pump is under the stairs. So i'm hoping this rules out transducer, and even rub rail. But maybe no rub rail. Most spray does however hit further back and i would think would end up in the engine room?
I did replace my water pump last season, but perhaps. The sump is a good one too. Although being it turns on more than once while underway, it leads me to think it could be something coming from outside the boat.
I'll have to inspect the thruster area too.
 
Correct, the forward bilge pump is under the stairs. So i'm hoping this rules out transducer, and even rub rail. But maybe no rub rail. Most spray does however hit further back and i would think would end up in the engine room?
I did replace my water pump last season, but perhaps. The sump is a good one too. Although being it turns on more than once while underway, it leads me to think it could be something coming from outside the boat.
I'll have to inspect the thruster area too.
You should be able to see any wet areas. From the bow thruster access, with a flashlight you can see pretty far. Under the galley access you can see from gunwale to gunwale. Water in that bilge *shouldn't* be coming from the engine room.

Further up in this thread someone mentioned water accumulating in a captive compartment to the starboard side of that bilge. Source was leaking fittings in the master head shower. Another possibility, although no correlation to being on plane...
 
Thinking of having a set of nibryl props that I damaged in a 2015 grounding incident repaired and modified to 26 inch from 24. My prop guy has all my current performance numbers and thinks he can get me a noticeable performance increase. I really don't need a second set of props for how I boat around the bay and delta. Is anyone interested in a recently tuned up set of 24X27 props for their 44DB? Ill sell them for the cost of the repair and modification to my second set which has been estimated at 2500 to 3000 bucks. PM me if you have any interest.
Rusty
 
Thinking of having a set of nibryl props that I damaged in a 2015 grounding incident repaired and modified to 26 inch from 24. My prop guy has all my current performance numbers and thinks he can get me a noticeable performance increase. I really don't need a second set of props for how I boat around the bay and delta. Is anyone interested in a recently tuned up set of 24X27 props for their 44DB? Ill sell them for the cost of the repair and modification to my second set which has been estimated at 2500 to 3000 bucks. PM me if you have any interest.
Rusty

I will be very interested in your performance figures should you do this. I am more interested in keeping the engines in the Cummins fuel curve than boat speed. I am now running 24X27's and have been considering re-pitching my spares to 26 as the current props are right on the limit of the fuel curve at cruise.
 
I know we have had this discussion in the past on the forum but we have a few new 44DB owners since. Id like to poll those with 44DBs as to the props they are running and whether or not you have had them re-pitched for either performance or engine preservation. These boats came with 26 inch diameter props as standard equipment and the 24s were an option. My build documents showed 26s but it was delivered with 24s. The PO used the boat as a condo so never gave the props any consideration. I began investigating my prop situation when a friend with a 420 with the 26s had the dropped valve issue and came to the conclusion that how I am propped is just fine. Any way I would like to know what others experience is and if they are happy with the fuel burn curve they get.
Carpe Diem
 
I have 23 x 26, but i have the 450 Diamond mechanicals, so a bit different than you. I try to run at 2100 rpm and interestingly i am only carrying about 16knts (full water/3/4+ fuel). I thought i would be closer to 18-19knts. She does get up to 2725 rpm's at max, so i gather my propping is fine.
Oh well, i still love the ride so far.
 
This weekend my wife complained that the kitchen sink was slow to drain. This prompted me to inspect and clean out the sump box. I was suprised to find that all my faucets drain over board. Only the shower and head drains run into the sump box. It was still pretty nasty in the sump box. Will try the noflex digester to see how that works. As for the sink not draining it seems the fender as blocking the discharge overboard so easy fix there :)
 
This weekend my wife complained that the kitchen sink was slow to drain. This prompted me to inspect and clean out the sump box. I was suprised to find that all my faucets drain over board. Only the shower and head drains run into the sump box. It was still pretty nasty in the sump box. Will try the noflex digester to see how that works. As for the sink not draining it seems the fender as blocking the discharge overboard so easy fix there :)
Mine was setup the same. I was thankful that the sinks went overboard, but I'd occasionally get clogs, which I think were caused by spiders nesting in the lines. I keep a small plunger on the boat to clear those clogs.

I never liked the design of the sump box, because It holds a couple of inches of water that gets nasty. I'd scrub mine out at the end of every season, and vacuum with a shop vac - not a fun job. The digester should help. You can also run a bunch of clean water through the shower drain after they've been used to clear out the soap and other gunk from showers.

I was thinking of designing a drain into the bottom of the sump box, that could be connected to a little DC pump that could allow the sump to be completely emptied on demand. Anyone ever do something like that? Is there a better designed sump box that doesn't hold water and get nasty?
 
Mine was setup the same. I was thankful that the sinks went overboard, but I'd occasionally get clogs, which I think were caused by spiders nesting in the lines. I keep a small plunger on the boat to clear those clogs.

I never liked the design of the sump box, because It holds a couple of inches of water that gets nasty. I'd scrub mine out at the end of every season, and vacuum with a shop vac - not a fun job. The digester should help. You can also run a bunch of clean water through the shower drain after they've been used to clear out the soap and other gunk from showers.

I was thinking of designing a drain into the bottom of the sump box, that could be connected to a little DC pump that could allow the sump to be completely emptied on demand. Anyone ever do something like that? Is there a better designed sump box that doesn't hold water and get nasty?
Agreed it does hold a good amount of water before the pump kicks in.
 
Mine was setup the same. I was thankful that the sinks went overboard, but I'd occasionally get clogs, which I think were caused by spiders nesting in the lines. I keep a small plunger on the boat to clear those clogs.

I never liked the design of the sump box, because It holds a couple of inches of water that gets nasty. I'd scrub mine out at the end of every season, and vacuum with a shop vac - not a fun job. The digester should help. You can also run a bunch of clean water through the shower drain after they've been used to clear out the soap and other gunk from showers.

I was thinking of designing a drain into the bottom of the sump box, that could be connected to a little DC pump that could allow the sump to be completely emptied on demand. Anyone ever do something like that? Is there a better designed sump box that doesn't hold water and get nasty?

If the water is completely evacuated from the sump box, there is a chance that the pump will become air bound and will not prime and pump immediately when the box fills with water. It may take several seconds for the pump to start pumping and depending on water inflow, the box might overflow.
 
About once a month, on Sunday afternoon, the last thing I do is to add a scoop of Norflex in one of the shower drains and pour a cup or two of water to rinse it into the sump box. I have not cleaned it out in 2 years of doing this.

Bennett
 
If the water is completely evacuated from the sump box, there is a chance that the pump will become air bound and will not prime and pump immediately when the box fills with water. It may take several seconds for the pump to start pumping and depending on water inflow, the box might overflow.
Although you may be right Mark, my other bilge pumps (which are the same type) sit dry most of the time, and I've never experienced an issue where they won't pump when they suddenly encounter water. I'm curious if others have seen that these types of pumps require they stay wet to start immediately.
 
Although you may be right Mark, my other bilge pumps (which are the same type) sit dry most of the time, and I've never experienced an issue where they won't pump when they suddenly encounter water. I'm curious if others have seen that these types of pumps require they stay wet to start immediately.

SB, some of the success has to do with how the discharge lines run (no dips) and the length of the line runs. I can say that my aft engine room bilge pump always seemed to begin pumping right away as soon as I filled the bilge with water but my forward engine room pump sometimes would not pump immediately when flooding the bilge with water. My bilges are normally dry also. I have drilled a small (3/32" +/-) hole in the BOTTOM of the hoses in the bilge pumps immediately after the pump before the check valve to bleed water so the pumps can catch their prime in case of an emergency. The water that is left in shower sumps that have the float switch set high helps to prevent the air lock by ensuring the pump is submerged in water after the float switch shuts off.
Here are a few links that popped up when searching sump pump air locks that can cause problems and some remedies. The household pump has nothing to do with boats obviously, but shows what I'm talking about.

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/shower-sump-mystery.95070/

https://www.zoellerpumps.com/en-ca/video/airlock-prevention
 
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SB, some of the success has to do with how the discharge lines run (no dips) and the length of the line runs. I can say that my aft engine room bilge pump always seemed to begin pumping right away as soon as I filled the bilge with water but my forward engine room pump sometimes would not pump immediately when flooding the bilge with water. My bilges are normally dry also. I have drilled a small (3/32" +/-) hole in the BOTTOM of the hoses in the bilge pumps immediately after the pump before the check valve to bleed water so the pumps can catch their prime in case of an emergency. The water that is left in shower sumps that have the float switch set high helps to prevent the air lock by ensuring the pump is submerged in water after the float switch shuts off.
Here are a few links that popped up when searching sump pump air locks that can cause problems and some remedies. The household pump has nothing to do with boats obviously, but shows what I'm talking about.

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/shower-sump-mystery.95070/

https://www.zoellerpumps.com/en-ca/video/airlock-prevention
Thanks Mark. Always good to learn something new.
 
I am still getting the feel for driving this new to me ship. So far i'm loving its stability and how i barely have to adjust throttles no matter the seas. Gosh i was constantly adjusting my throttles for going up and down waves on my old 360 gasser. Anyway i still feel this boat rides a little high, but i'm new to flybridge's and honestly i just cannot completely tell what the right bow attitude is yet. What are you guys typically running the tabs at while at ideal cruising speed? Right now i'm about 50% down. I have a heavier hydraulic lift with a 300lb dinghy typically on it. I recently put 100' chain in the bow locker but didn't notice much of a change.
 
I think even the resting angle of this boat has a noticeable slant to the stern. I think that adds to the feeling that you are riding a bit high. I too have a platform with about a 450-500 lb dink and i find i have to use a certain amount of tab when cruising to level out. I've never paid too much attention to how much tab i'm using. I generally use full tabs to get out of the hole then when i hit cruise rpm i slowly feather the tabs up and down to find the tipping point where i'm no longer loosing or gaining speed and then leave them there.

Having moved from gas I know what you about never touching the throttles. Between the engine sync, torque and auto pilot i'm just enjoying the view.
 

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I am still getting the feel for driving this new to me ship. So far i'm loving its stability and how i barely have to adjust throttles no matter the seas. Gosh i was constantly adjusting my throttles for going up and down waves on my old 360 gasser. Anyway i still feel this boat rides a little high, but i'm new to flybridge's and honestly i just cannot completely tell what the right bow attitude is yet. What are you guys typically running the tabs at while at ideal cruising speed? Right now i'm about 50% down. I have a heavier hydraulic lift with a 300lb dinghy typically on it. I recently put 100' chain in the bow locker but didn't notice much of a change.
On my 44DB I didn't normally ride with a dinghy, and when I did it is very light, probably about 100 lbs. That being said, I rarely used the tabs. I'd only use them to correct a slight list caused by uneven weight distribution. I think it is a very different driving experience being on a bridge, but I grew to love it. The 44DB, IMHO has a very good weight distribution due to the engines being so far forward. It gets on plane with ease and even though the boat appears to be a bit top heavy, I never felt unsafe, even in some 8' seas on Lake Huron. You'll want to be cautious of docking in very heavy winds, as the boat has a lot of surface area to catch the wind, and the thrusters will only work to a point. I would always try to back into a heavy wind because going forward it is easy to lose the bow to a gusty wind.
 

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