410 Sundancer

HavnFunYet?

HavnFunYet?

Member
Mar 16, 2008
176
Michigan
Boat Info
1998 Sea Ray 370 DA
310 Mercury Hypalon w 9.9 Merc
Engines
454 Mercruiser 7.4 MPI's
The Admiral and I are looking into a 2002 410 Sundancer with Cummins T-3126 diesel engines...630 hours.

I am new to something this awesome and am looking for anything anyone might be able to add regarding this vessel. What to look for? Any irks or quirks that one should be aware of? Are the hours a concern? Currently running gas and have no knowledge whatsoever about diesel engines. On the surface this seems to be a very good looking boat at a fair price but I want o make sure we are not getting into anything that may have had any inherent issues.

Any help would be more than appreciated! Thank you in advance!
 
If it is a Sundancer and not an express it has CATs which would be Cat 3126 Engines.
 
Sorry about that...you are are correct...see I told you I didn't know much! Any feedback on the 410? Thanks!
 
The 410 is a solid, good running boat as are the 3126 good engines. Just have the boat surveyed and the local Caterpillar dealer do an engine survey including a blow by test, which only Cat techs have the equipment to do. Don't skimp on the surveys, larger boats and diesels can be expensive to repair if a previous owner neglected maintenance or abused the boat. You can pay a little now or maybe pay a lot later. If she surveys well, then it's just a matter of agreeing on a price.

Best regards,
Frank C
 
The 410 is a great boat with few, if any, bad habits (the fact that I own one has no play in my comments...haha). Lots of room, good performance, reliable engines, good economy under way and fun to run. We have had ImpulseIII for 5 seasons and love it.

One real advantage is that the cockpit rugs dry quickly when Gary spills beer !!

There are several 410 owners on the board and I am sure they will all add their comments. Good luck!
 
We love our 02 w/Cats,moved up from 370 gasser four years ago. As others have said make sure engines have been maintained and they will serve you well. I would stick with the cats in this boat and avoid gas if finances permit.

Interior and cockpit space is terrific even for extended cruising and boat is easy to handle with two people.

Best of luck....Marty
 
Although my boat is a '98 it was repowered by a CAT recall in '02..... I have 2002 3126 CAT's and have been very happy with them. I was a little intimidated with the diesels at first, but that quickly faded and like them more every time out compared to my previous 454's. Good luck & enjoy the buyer's market out there.......
 
I have an 02 410DA with 3126TA CATs. We moved up from a 98 370DA with 7.4 MPI Horizons. Overall, it is a great boat and it has served us well over the last several seasons. It is well built, nicely finished and has been generally reliable.

3126 CATs of this vintage have few systemic issues and will serve you well if properly maintained. 630 hrs does not scare me, however you may be due for some major maintenance unless recently done by PO. Specifically, in addition to standard stuff like all new fluids, filters and impellers:

1. heat exchangers, aftercoolers, gear coolers should likely be cleaned (replace all engine hoses while you're at it)
2. valve adjustment should be done
3. you may need new raw water pumps. Sherwood 17XXX series pumps are notoriously leaky. CAT sells reman replacements cheap. This is a systemic issue with these motors.

These engines are also sensitive to overloading so make sure they turn up to min 2800 rpm WOT at your typical load. What that means in reality is that you should be looking for 2850-2875 rpm WOT during survey.

The boat itself, like most boats, has some shortcomings and trade-offs:

1. Engine room access generally leaves much to be desired. Outboard sides of the engines and genny can be very difficult to reach for service. Batteries, particularly genny battery, are also difficult to get to. I replaced mine with AGMs just to avoid this service point.
2. I find the balance to be too stern heavy for my taste. She runs bow high and needs tabs to plane efficiently and maintain a decent running angle. I also have a 250lb dinghy on my swim platform which makes this even worse. My tabs are always fully extended.
3. Minor nitpicking - cockpit storage is poorly designed (IMO) and genny is in the wrong place (IMO).

Don't get me wrong, great boat overall and most issues are inherent to all express cruisers with v-drives.

Take a good look at the boat, have it surveyed by a good surveyor and CAT marine engine guys, and it if all looks good to you - go for it. There are some unbelievable deals out there!
 
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Just out of curiosity, does Sea Ray offer any Sundancer models with twin drives that have GREAT engine room access?

When I decide to move up, that will be a big decision in the process.

Doug
 
aquadancer said:
I have an 02 410DA with 3126TA CATs. We moved up from a 98 370DA with 7.4 MPI Horizons. ....
Click to expand...

How would you compare it with your 370 ?

For example, the previous owner of my 370 moved to a 99 400 DA and mentioned he has less storage VS the 370. I think the 370 is also stern heavy., is the 410 about the same ?
 
I moved from an '02 380DA to a '03 410DA. Storage, in all honesty, is about the same. A little more here and a little less there.

I would have to give the 410DA with CATs a better score as far as routine ER maintenance and servicability is concerned than my 380DA with 8.1s...probably due to the motors being a little narrower....in line 6 vs V8..... and mainly due to the extra foot of beam.

The galley on the 380DA had a little extra cabinet storage.....but nothing to write home about. Two heads on the 410DA is great and right there there is more room for 'stuff'. The 'hard' door for the mid cabin is also a very nice feature.

I don't experience any significant bow high running attitude. Maybe due to the 150 feet of chain anchor rode in my anchor locker. I don't 'need' any tab to get on plane, but I do use a little tab while on plane to maximize my effieciency. You can feel and hear when you have the tabs set just right.....I use the tachs to let me know for sure when I'm set. I start with full tabs down (again I don't 'need' to, but I find it easier this way) and once on plane, I slowly release some tab (raise the bow) just to where the tachs start to lose some R's...then I tap them back down and 'go boating'.

The CATs are a great combo in this boat.....nice cruise speed....21-22 knots at 2250-2350 RPMs (load and conditions dependant).....with 'very' nice fuel efficiency.....~1.1 sMPGs on average.

As stated above.....make sure you can reach full WOT RPM under full load.....My props were re-pitched from the factory 22 X 23 to 22 X 22.
 
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Big Al - As Dom said, 370 had a little more galley storage. Since every bit counts, we added a sliding basket above the fridge where the old tube TV used to be. You also get a full size fridge in the 410 vs. the undercounter job we had in the 370 - this makes a big difference. Like Dom, we also use the aft head for storage. Overall cabin storage is OK and works for our family of 5.

Cockpit storage is my nitpick - I would prefer full cockpit base seats with storage under lift cushions.

I also love the speed and efficiency at least as compared to my old 370. This boats seems to want to run forever at the 21-22 kts cruise speed and it seems very effortless. Just makes you want to cruise more!

Dom - I am also thinking of adding more chain and an oversize anchor. If it allows me to reduce tabs and still keep proper trim then maybe this would be added weight with no penalty... and one can always use better ground tackle.
 
I have had my 410 for two years now and am very happy with the boat. Rides well, handles well, no issues with single handed docking and maneuvering.

I intentionally bought the boat with gas engines. (OK. All you diesel motor guys can stop laughing now and pick your chins up off the floor).

The reason is because the CAT 3126 was the only diesel motor installed in the 2000/2001 model years I was looking at. It is not a sleeved motor. That means when the cylinders are worn out or you have some sort of issue with the block, you cannot just replace a sleeve like in similar diesel motors.

I was also told that Caterpillar does not recommend boring out the cylinders on this particular motor.

So, if you have a problem with the block, you throw the motor away and buy a long block/short block and spend 30 - 40k to get it running again. My philosophy was that kind of repair buys a lot of gasoline and a bunch of Mercruiser short blocks.

I don't get the fuel mileage using gas motors (maybe .7 mpg on a good day), but, when I had to replace a motor recently I didn't have to mortgage the house to pay for the job.

In any event, no matter what motors you get, you'll be happy with the boat.

Like everyone else said, get the local CAT dealer to perform a complete engine survey, no matter what it costs. When you start comparing the cost of a replacement motor, you're gonna think the survey is cheap insurance.

Good Luck!
 
3126 CATs are indeed "parent bore" engines and they do not have replacable sleeves. There are many modern diesels of similar power which are also not sleeved.

Cummins "B", Volvo D6, Yanmar LY 420, CAT 3208 - because there is nothing inherently wrong with "parent bore" design. These blocks are stiffer, stronger, and have better heat transfer properties that wet liners. We can debate sleeved vs. parent bore design merits in a new thread. Gas vs. Diesels has already been debated elsewhere and does not have to be repeated.

When it comes to longevity, properly propped and maintained 3126 CATs can run 3000 hrs+. Maintenance and proper loading are the keys to longevity and reliability for these engines and this is the best advice I can give to a potential buyer.
 
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