410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by mistercomputerman, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Dom,

    Did you have sea water coming back up and into the cockpit through those drains? I do want to do something with the hatch seal but is the seal that you installed to keep water from getting into the ER?
     
  2. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    I just tried to fit the Vitrifrigo down the companionway and it does not want to go.

    If anyone has successfully done this, I would like to know how. I start taking the refrigerator cabinet out in the morning to gain clearance.
     
  3. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Did you remove the refer doors? It would really suck to have to dismantle the cabinets.
     
  4. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Removed the flush mount kit. Doors are recessed into the unit, so removal of the doors won't gain any space.

    Looks like the cabinet is going to have to come out to get it into the cabin and then put the cabinet back and mount the fridge in the cabinet.
     
  5. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Yes and Yes.

    There are two issues here.

    First: On some, NOT ALL, 410DAs, the seals around the hatch covers were not installed correctly. The first thing you need to do is to determine if your hatch seals were installed correctly at the factory. The wrong way had the seals follow the contour of the hatch which has a 90 deg angle at the corners. The correct way had the seals follow the contour of the floor drain which has two 45deg angles at the corner where the drains are. The purpose of the seal is to keep any water in the floor drain from running over the lip into the ER and onto the motors and genie and what ever else is beneath the lip. Generally that would be water from washing the deck or rain water.

    Second: The second issue is water coming back in through the deck lip drain. This is sea water....and in my case....salt water. The sea water enters in from the overboard thru hull discharge on either side of the hull. This is regardless of whether or not the hatch seal is installed correctly. However, if the hatch seal is installed correctly, the chances are less likely that the sea water will enter the ER and attack the equipment in the ER. The fix for this is the installation of the whale Non return valves in the pic above. I think, but I'm not positive, that this issue is more prevalent in diesel powered 410DAs because of the extra weight and the fact that they sit lower in the water. a design flaw IMHO. The only way to know for sure is to run with the hatch open (Wear ear protection) and then come off plane quickly (something you shouldn't do normally) and observe the floor drains for sea water coming back in. Run the boat heavy....full fuel. It would be best to even have a few passengers sitting in the cockpit (with ear protection) to simulate real world.

    I had both problems. IMHO...the installation of the whale non return check valves is cheap insurance to protect against this issue even if you are not sure if you have the problem.
     
  6. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Any pics of you jammed inbetween the new fridge and the doorway? That would be cool to see!
     
  7. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    I had my hands full of one end of a new fridge, so I couldn't take any pictures.

    I now have the refrigerator in the cabin, but, the fridge cabinet in my garage, getting ready to add 3/4" of spacer to the bottom to jack up the new fridge and to recover it with Nuvacor since we dinged the edge trying to put the stupid fridge in.
     
  8. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Did you test the new fridge first to make sure it works? If it doesn't work....take pics of ice cream melting...that would be cool...(pun intended)
     
  9. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Thanks Dom, this is great information. I never intentially plan to come off plane that fast but you never know and I have yet to be in rough enough seas to have this intrusion happen I guess. I will check into this though as prevention would be good for the time this would happen.
    BTW, why does your details show a 380DA? I thought you have a 410DA?
     
  10. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    This is what your cabinet looks like (in case you wanted to know) with a Vitrifrigo flush mount trim ring in it. I still have to put the new Nuvacor on the left side.

    IMAG0397.jpg IMAG0398.jpg IMAG0399.jpg


    PS
    These are crappy cell phone pictures.
     
  11. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    How hard was it to take out the cabinet? I dread the day I need to replace the Nevercold...
     
  12. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    After removing the fridge, it has about 20 screws holding it in place and you have to remove screws from the upper TV cabinet, inside the drinking glass cabinet, the bottom of the fridge cabinet and the companionway steps. I would allow a half day to get it out if you have never done it.

    The first time I took it out was to replace the Nuvacor/Vitricore because it had delaminated. The cabinet fell apart. I stripped the Nuvacor from the cabinet and put some gussets in the corners of the cabinet with the intent that I could dismantle it again some day since it WILL NOT come out of the boat in one piece. I ended up with 2 "L" shaped sections that screw together through the corner supports from the inside.

    This time it only took about an hour to remove. I took the screws out of the corners and transported to two pieces back to the house so I could R & R the Nuvacor we dinged trying to get the fridge down the hatch.

    Tonight, I'll laminate it and use the router on the edges and reinstall in the boat. I should have the fridge install finished late this evening depending on how long I have to stay at the office today.

    The next question is what to do with the TV cabinet above the fridge. I had been using it in its original form for my electronics for the Internet. Now that I have it apart again, I am thinking I am going to rebuild it in some fashion to provide better access to those electronics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  13. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Sounds like an awful lot of work to replace a damn fridge!
     
  14. Bryank

    Bryank Member

    455
    Jul 3, 2008
    Catawba Island, OH
    2001 410DA
    Mercruiser 8.1S Horizons
    What do you have in terms of "Internet electronics"? I have wifi at my home marina but the signal is fairly weak at my dock. Do you use some type of amplifier to boost your signal?

    By the way, thanks for convincing me that fridge replacement will be a contracted job when the time comes! Luckily, the PO replaced mine a couple years ago but the Nevercold they put in is ridiculously loud... I see my wife tiring of that in a couple years!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  15. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Since Mr. Four Suns did all the work, I just copied his plans with a couple of modifications.



    FourSunsNetwork[1].jpg

    I have Verizon 4G Broadband so I had to have an antenna, amp and cables just to boost that signal because Verizon has their own frequencies.

    I subbed the Cradlepoint with an MBR 1400 because:
    - it let me do away with the Rouge Wave/Bullet AP
    - it takes my Verizon USB broadband card
    - it has a spot for external antenna
    - it does WiFi as WAN for easy discovery of marina WiFi
    - it fails over from WiFi to Broadband and back automatically

    I used some (four) Carnetics P1900 power regulators and cut all the bricks off the electronics
    http://www.carnetix.com/CNXP1900.htm

    I only have two computers and a PS3 to power, so I don't have all the fancy audio/video gear

    I crammed it all in the space that the TV came out of and threw a variable speed cooling fan in there.

    Then I bought a SeaView modular mount and stuck all the antennas and stuff up there (Yes one of the antennas is leaning. Seaview sent me a repalcement arm that solved that problem)



    mounts.jpg



    Now that I had to take the fridge cabinet out and the TV cabinet on top if it out, I think I'll try to make a new upper cabinet that better utilizes the space above the fridge.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  16. Bryank

    Bryank Member

    455
    Jul 3, 2008
    Catawba Island, OH
    2001 410DA
    Mercruiser 8.1S Horizons
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Wow, that's a helluva set-up. I may need to investigate this a bit more during the off-season and see what I can do to increase my signal, especially when away from my home marina. Nice job!
     
  17. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2009 Walker Bay 13’
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    What do you figure you paid for all of the listed equipment? That's a sweet setup, I seem to remember seeing Gary post that schematic.
     
  18. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    I'll have to add it all up. I guess with the Seaview mount and antennas and cables and hardware, maybe $2k.

    Not including PS3 and computers and the HDMI matrix switch which allows me to bring up any of the devices on any combination of the 3 TVs. That was $1k, but, it allows one person to use one computer and TV as monitor, another person to use a second computer and TV as monitor and a 3rd person to be playing Playstation on the third TV. Or any combination of the above. Plus I have a Slingbox on my TV at home which puts your cable TV on the Internet. So, I can watch my home TV over the Internet when I am travelling.



    Here is my WiFi speed at the dock

    wifi dock.jpg



    And WiFi failed over to Verizon 4G (what we have underway)

    wifi verizon.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  19. mistercomputerman

    mistercomputerman Active Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Jan 6, 2008
    Virginia Beach, VA
    410 Sundancer - 2001
    Twin 8.1L Mercruisers - 2009
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    And here is what a Vitrifrigo looks like installed. The freezer is at about 6 degrees and the fridge part running about 34 degrees. (more crappy cell phone pictures)

    IMAG0401.jpg

    IMAG0403.jpg

    IMAG0409.jpg
     
  20. osd9

    osd9 New Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    MidAtlantic
    2003 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126-TA w/ ZF 80-IV
    Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

    Nice work Rick....I especially like the deep red throw rugs....I'll bet they add that special touch when your disco ball is spinning!
     

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