410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Greetings, 400/410ers. I hope everyone is having a great winter so far. We'll start seeing the 2020 launch threads very soon now!

Question for you guys - I'm sure some of you have replaced your cockpit sink. Was it a pain in the rear to get the existing sink removed, without damage to the gelcoat? Any tips or tricks?

I replaced the sink on my 340 with a stainless sink and faucet so I have been through this once before. The sink came out with very little pain. I simply cut the caulk/seal around the lip and pulled it right out. That said, I feel like the seal between the sink and gel on my 400 is more solid, less like caulk. I'm hoping I don't damage anything when I start getting after it.

Thanks in advance for any tips. I plan to deploy the sink project just prior to launch this winter. I have all my parts...I just need to finish polishing/waxing first.
 
Use a plastic razor so you don’t damage the gelcoat. $10 for 2 handles and 100 blades. I’m using these now to remove caulk around the engine air inlets. Caulk there is failing and mildew stained.
 
The sealant/adhesive on mine was more like 4200 than caulk. It wasn't difficult to remove, but I would still tread lightly.
 
From what I recall mine was similar to Cocktail Time's. My wife actually removed the old sink. She didn't trust me with the removal because she knows how I get when things don't cooperate with me.:mad::mad::mad:
 
I changed my sink (and faucet). It was the first upgrade I did.
While I can’t remember exactly what method I used, I do remember that it was accomplished with plastic scrapers, a rubber mallet and some patience.
The replacement drain was a PIA to find because of the size of the discharge hose and limited space.
I remember going to a couple of local places to put something together.
 
Thanks for all the responses Gentlemen! Very helpful. It sounds very similar to my prior 340 sink replacement so that’s great.

I guess I just need to dive in and go for it. I’ll be sure to post pictures....even if it all goes horribly wrong.
 
No Y - valve on pump out?

I'm in the process of replacing the duck valves in the vacuum pump. I got the old ones out and just ordered the replacements. Looks like that will go just fine.

It looking at the 400 manual, it looks like there should be a Y-valve for you to select macerator pump out or dockside pump out. Mine does not have this. Anyone else know what their setup is? Does it matter? I have the seacock closed on macerator "out" and the macerator pump doesn't work - so I'm not even sure what would happen it the pump worked.

And speaking of which - has anyone replaced just the electrical pump on the macerator? Or should I just swap out the entire waste pump assembly?

Thanks,
 
Titan,
The Y Valves on my boat are located forward of the port engine. They allow selection of 1. Holding Tank, 2. Direct overboard discharge (Head straight overboard), or 3. Pump overboard discharge from holding tank. As I presume your boat is in a lake which, as you know, does not allow overboard discharge, leaving the system closed and non-functioning could be your best bet should anyone ever board or question you. Being on the east coast, we can overboard discharge if far enough off shore.

My discharge pump is a second SeaLand vacuum pump, so it is the same as the main vacuum pump for the head.

I may have some pictures I can post if you wish to see them.
 
h_gerry said:
Titan,
The Y Valves on my boat are located forward of the port engine. They allow selection of 1. Holding Tank, 2. Direct overboard discharge (Head straight overboard), or 3. Pump overboard discharge from holding tank. As I presume your boat is in a lake which, as you know, does not allow overboard discharge, leaving the system closed and non-functioning could be your best bet should anyone ever board or question you. Being on the east coast, we can overboard discharge if far enough off shore.

My discharge pump is a second SeaLand vacuum pump, so it is the same as the main vacuum pump for the head.

I may have some pictures I can post if you wish to see them.
Click to expand...

Thanks Harold - I would appreciate seeing your pics. Unless I've just been blind, I don't see any Y valves. I'm pretty sure I don't have direct overboard discharge but according to the manual I would still have a Y valve to select holding tank dockside pump out or waste pump pump out.

I know about not discharging locally, but at some point soon I'm going to take the boat into the ocean and I want the systems ready. So while I've got the vacuum pump apart, I figured I'd get the waste pump working again.

Thanks.
 
Titan,

Here are a couple of pictures that I had in my phone. They are the Y-Valves and the placement of them in the engine bay (while the engines were removed when I was repowering last winter).
Y-Valve - Engine Room.jpg
Y-valve.jpg


I did move them higher on the bulkhead from their original placement, but you get the idea.
 
Thanks again. I definitely do not have anything like that. Just not sure why there's no Y valves. But I'm going to keep moving forward. I've got the parts coming for the vacuum system rebuild and I'll have to dig a little more on the waste pump and see what the issue is.
 
This topic reminds of a hilarious thread I found on "the hull truth" recently. It was discussing the finer points of using a bucket to crap in, vs just doing it in the water. I laughed out loud several times...

I've never owned a boat where the macerator didn't simply pump from the black water tank. No Y valves. I wonder if the overboard discharge (bypassing the black water tank) is the complicating feature?
 
Stee6043 said:
This topic reminds of a hilarious thread I found on "the hull truth" recently. It was discussing the finer points of using a bucket to crap in, vs just doing it in the water. I laughed out loud several times...

I've never owned a boat where the macerator didn't simply pump from the black water tank. No Y valves. I wonder if the overboard discharge (bypassing the black water tank) is the complicating feature?
Click to expand...

I agree. I think it must be the direct overboard feature that introduces the Y Valve even though the manual shows it. It wouldn't be the first time the manual was wrong.

And for the bucket vs water? With the Admiral on board, neither of those options are a possibility. So our on-board septic systems must work!
 
TitanTn said:
Thanks again. I definitely do not have anything like that. Just not sure why there's no Y valves. But I'm going to keep moving forward. I've got the parts coming for the vacuum system rebuild and I'll have to dig a little more on the waste pump and see what the issue is.
Click to expand...
You could have a setup similar to mine in one respect, the outlet from the tank has a 't' fitting in it to allow 2 hoses to connect to it. One goes to overboard discharge pump; other goes to deck fitting for pump out. If that is the case, you don't need a y-valve.
Tank would have one inlet high on the tank for the pump from the head to fill the tank. Lower outlet should feed overboard macerator and deck pump out.
 
h_gerry said:
You could have a setup similar to mine in one respect, the outlet from the tank has a 't' fitting in it to allow 2 hoses to connect to it. One goes to overboard discharge pump; other goes to deck fitting for pump out. If that is the case, you don't need a y-valve.
Tank would have one inlet high on the tank for the pump from the head to fill the tank. Lower outlet should feed overboard macerator and deck pump out.
Click to expand...

You're right. That's exactly how mine is laid out - but again my confusion was that the manual said there should still be a Valve. No big deal. I feel more comfortable now that while mine doesn't have a valve - it likely never did. I think I'm fine in that regard.

I finished the rebuild of my vacuum generator last night so now I just need to reinstall and then start working on the waste pump. I just like everything working the way it's supposed to.

Thanks,
 
Stee6043 said:
Thanks for all the responses Gentlemen! Very helpful. It sounds very similar to my prior 340 sink replacement so that’s great.

I guess I just need to dive in and go for it. I’ll be sure to post pictures....even if it all goes horribly wrong.
Click to expand...
You can also use a piece of braided fishing line and work it under the lip using a back and forth sawing motion.
 
HUMPH said:
You can also use a piece of braided fishing line and work it under the lip using a back and forth sawing motion.
Click to expand...
This is what I do to cut through caulking, silicone, etc. You need a heavy enough test and I wrap each end around a wooden dowel, but it works pretty well. Maybe just a small cut with a knife to get it going.
 
Well I did the deed yesterday on the sink and faucet. I had a pretty good chuckle whilst removing the sink. Not a single tool required. I cupped the side of the sink and wrapped my hand around the edge of the stainless rail...one squeeze and the sink popped half out. The back half came out with one shimmy back and forth. Could not have been easier.

I used a plastic razor blade to clean up some of the caulk, of which there was very little. There's still a slight ring around the backside of the sink that I'll deal with in the future.

I'm not sold on my choice of faucet. The location is tough on this boat with the overhanging side panel above the sink. I bought a nice pull-out faucet but it wouldn't fit, not enough height. Pictured is my backup faucet. Still a big improvement from OEM but I may replace it down the road.

49635672533_43099be29f_c.jpg


49635672553_5bb0bd18a2_c.jpg
 
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