.40 caliber Sig Saurer

[scoflaw]

Beg to differ on a couple of points. Big difference between a 9 and a 45, Hollow point ammo is great if the subject is lightly clothed or has little muscle mass. You get some big guy with a leather jacket on, that hollow point 9 will shatter before it can get to the vitals, where as that 45 will do a much better job of penetrating.

Placement, placement, placement sounds great but in a real world situation probably not going to happen, that's where the large caliber makes up the difference, you could hit him in the arm with the 45 and he may bleed to death. You could probably hit the guy in the eye with a pellet gun and stop the attack if you were really good at placement. Bigger is always better. 380 is a joke , you could probably catch that round in a baseball glove.

1 more point, if everyone has on shorts and t shirts, and this 1 guy has baggy clothing on, a yup he's got a gun.

 

[firecadet613]

A quick thought on concealing a firearm. Everybody is deathly afraid they will be made if they are carrying a gun and tend to go with a smaller gun to reduce its footprint. Newsflash: The sheep around you are so involved in their own little worlds, they are barely aware of your presence. Don't sweat it, and for godsakes, don't keep touching your gun or tugging on your cover garment.

Great point! And if you conceal well, your better half won't be able to see it.

I am looking for something to keep in my front pocket, the LCP and Bodyguard seemed to be the ticket for a larger caliber than .22. My Ruger P944 40S&W is a monster. I'd need to wear baggy jeans with my underpants showing to pocket that thing.....not my style.

Beg to differ on a couple of points. Big difference between a 9 and a 45, Hollow point ammo is great if the subject is lightly clothed or has little muscle mass. You get some big guy with a leather jacket on, that hollow point 9 will shatter before it can get to the vitals, where as that 45 will do a much better job of penetrating.

1 more point, if everyone has on shorts and t shirts, and this 1 guy has baggy clothing on, a yup he's got a gun.

Look at the XDS 45ACP. It can disappear with the right holster and packs 5+1 of 45ACP. If that's not enough, look at the XD Mod.2 or the XDm. Very reliable, easy shooting guns.

 

[LTD.330]

Beg to differ on a couple of points. Big difference between a 9 and a 45, Hollow point ammo is great if the subject is lightly clothed or has little muscle mass. You get some big guy with a leather jacket on, that hollow point 9 will shatter before it can get to the vitals, where as that 45 will do a much better job of penetrating.

scoflaw, I appreciate your points, but I have a slightly different take.

Most hollowpoints will plug when shooting through heavy clothing and behave like a regular FMJ. The plugged bullets will fail to expand not fail to penetrate. They will actually penetrate deeper than if they weren't plugged and risk over penetration. Speaking of penetration the optimum is 12 - 18 inches in ballistic gelatin. The 380 doesn't consitently achieve that penetration level in bare gelatin.

The following pictures are from this article from DocGKR's blog. DocGKR aka Doctor Gary Roberts is world's leading wound ballistics researcher. If there is any doubt follow his recommendations here: https://homeguntraining.wordpress.com/2013/09/02/selecting-defensive-pistol-ammunition/

This picture shows the wound channels and penetration in ballistic gelatin. Notice how the penetration and temporary cavities are approximately the same between the various bullets.




This picture shows the expanded hollowpoints and their approximate final sizes.


My statement about shot placement was meant that you either hit something vitally important, heart, lung, aortic knob, brain pan (hell anywhere in the face), etc, or you need to shoot again.

The difference between a fully expanded hollowpoint in 9mm and .45 is about a tenth of an inch or so and is very unlikely to be the deciding factor in a gunfight. My preference is for 9mm because you end up with more ammo, less recoil, and quicker follow up shots in equivalently sized firearms. 9mm is also cheaper so theoretically you will practice more often.

 

[Almightys]

So who wants to play catch with my .380? Lol

 

[scoflaw]

My experience comes from 45 years of big game hunting with many different loads from several different hand gun calibers. We're talking real deal here, no gelatin. The skin alone of a large mammal would replicate heavy clothing.

 

[scoflaw]

So who wants to play catch with my .380? Lol

The 380 has the same size projectile as the 9 with less powder to propel it. Shoot it into a stack of phone books and report back.

 

[LTD.330]

So who wants to play catch with my .380? Lol

Nobody isn't saying a 380 can't do the job. I'm stating that it has very inconsistent real world results.

Don't take my word for it, take a look at this SME's (Subject Matter Expert) opinion on the 380. http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/is-the-380-acp-an-adequate-caliber-for-defensive-use

scoflaw, sincerely, with all due respect, there is no comparison between big game hunting 1000+ pound quadrapeds and 200+ pound bipeds.

 

[scoflaw]

Nobody isn't saying a 380 can't do the job. I'm stating that it has very inconsistent real world results.

Don't take my word for it, take a look at this SME's (Subject Matter Expert) opinion on the 380. http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/is-the-380-acp-an-adequate-caliber-for-defensive-use

scoflaw, sincerely, with all due respect, there is no comparison between big game hunting 1000+ pound quadrapeds and 200+ pound bipeds.

Actually, most of my experience has been on deer in the 150 pound category. And the big winner by far is the 44 mag. followed by 357 sw,

 

[Gofirstclass]

Scoflaw, so you're saying you hunt deer in MA with a .44 and .357?


Interesting, because handgun hunting is prohibited in MA. Here's what the state says about that....
"
Hunting with Handguns
It is lawful to hunt birds and mammals in Massachusetts with a pistol or revolver of any caliber (including muzzle-loading pistols) and with a magazine capacity of any size, except:

1. The hunting of deer with a pistol or revolver is prohibited."

Here's a link in case you want to check up on that.....
http://www.mass.gov/eea/agencies/dfg/dfw/laws-regulations/plain-lang-sum/hunting-with-handguns.html

 

[Woody]

My experience comes from 45 years of big game hunting with many different loads from several different hand gun calibers. We're talking real deal here, no gelatin. The skin alone of a large mammal would replicate heavy clothing.

Actually, most of my experience has been on deer in the 150 pound category. And the big winner by far is the 44 mag. followed by 357 sw,

Being that you been hunting deer I'd say their skin pretty much replicates ours.:huh:

I don't think I've got any gun less than 25 years old. I'm not up to date on the new stuff. Setting that aside I don't agree with these little guns for entry level. They're something only experienced shooters should be buying. The police with all the experience and training miss most the time in real life...what's some newbie who never practices going to be able to do with one of these tiny guns.

 

[blaster]

Scoflaw, so you're saying you hunt deer in MA with a .44 and .357?

He could be using a carbine lever gun. My 1894 marlin .357 has taken whitetail at 100 yards.

 

[LTD.330]

Setting that aside I don't agree with these little guns for entry level. They're something only experienced shooters should be buying. The police with all the experience and training miss most the time in real life...what's some newbie who never practices going to be able to do with one of these tiny guns.

Woody wins the internet today!

 

[Woody]

Woody wins the internet today!

I'm not sure how to take that...you fcking with me or did I accidentally say something you approve of?:smt043

 

[LTD.330]

Not F-ing with you. That was great sage advice.

 

[scoflaw]

He could be using a carbine lever gun. My 1894 marlin .357 has taken whitetail at 100 yards.

MA is a shotgun only state for deer.

 

[Do Over]

trading my Taurus Slimline for a Glock 23 today

 

[boatman37]

well he heard back from Sig (carry scorpion .40). it had the wrong recoil spring and the front barrel bushing was too tight. they are covering it under warranty but sucks that a brand new gun failed out of the box. oops. actually its a .45. they said they fired 50 rounds through it and not a problem so hopefully its good to go when he gets it

 

[dwna1a]

well he heard back from Sig (carry scorpion .40). it had the wrong recoil spring and the front barrel bushing was too tight. they are covering it under warranty but sucks that a brand new gun failed out of the box

True, but they stood behind their firearm and are fixing the issue.

 

[Gofirstclass]

MA is a shotgun only state for deer.

So, scofflaw, since it's illegal to hunt deer in MA with a handgun or rifle, where did you do all of your handgun deer hunting?

 

[scoflaw]

So, scofflaw, since it's illegal to hunt deer in MA with a handgun or rifle, where did you do all of your handgun deer hunting?

Howd I know that question would be your next ? Heh, heh heh