380 Sundancer Question

Dani-Lu

Dani-Lu

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2007
1,352
Delray Beach, Fl
Boat Info
2001 410DA
Engines
3126 Cats
I am moving from a 2000 310da to the 380da. I am wondering if I have limited my search for my next boat, based on my opinion more than fact. My thoughts are, I do not want someone else's headaches, so I am trying to find a boat in my price range no older than 2001 or 2002. I figure this puts me in a slightly newer boat than I own, but within my budget. Please note I really like my boat, it runs perfectly, but we need more room for sleeping. With this said:

1. Am I limiting my search by only looking at 2001 and newer? Should I consider older boats?
2. Is looking to stay under 300 hrs on a gas boat make sense?
3. If I found a diesel boat (which I would prefer), does hours mean less, or should I try to find one with less than ??? hours?
4. Are there certain Diesels to avoid on the Sea Ray (i.e. 380da with 7.4 gas had water ingestion issue).

Appreciate the advice.

Happy Fathers Day weekend,


Jeff
 
Dani-Lu said:
I am moving from a 2000 310da to the 380da. I am wondering if I have limited my search for my next boat, based on my opinion more than fact. My thoughts are, I do not want someone else's headaches, so I am trying to find a boat in my price range no older than 2001 or 2002. I figure this puts me in a slightly newer boat than I own, but within my budget. Please note I really like my boat, it runs perfectly, but we need more room for sleeping. With this said:

1. Am I limiting my search by only looking at 2001 and newer? Should I consider older boats?

Having been in you situation just two seasons ago (went from '98 330DA to 2002 380DA) I would suggest, in the gas boats, you look at late 2001-2004 380DAs with the 8.1 Horizons. The early 380DA with the 7.4 had water injestion issues. However, if you find the right earlier 380DA with the 7.4s, make sure that the engines have been upgraded with the proper exhaust and manifold modifications. From a purely personal opinion, we didn't consider any 1999 380DAs because in that year, the toilet was in the shower.....

2. Is looking to stay under 300 hrs on a gas boat make sense?

I would be more susupicious/concerned of a 5 year old boat with under 100 hours....however, from a view point of resale, buyers like to see low hours. The most important thing here is to get as much information about the previous owner/s maintenance history. You should have no problem finding a clean 2002 or so 380DA with average hours on the meters

3. If I found a diesel boat (which I would prefer), does hours mean less, or should I try to find one with less than ??? hours?

NOW your talking..... :thumbsup: ....a neighbor had an 03 380DA with diesel. Had I known he was getting out of cruising, I would have bought his boat in a heart beat. He sold last summer, a year after I bought my 380DA with 8.1s. and just before I decided to move up to my 410DA. I wouldn't get too hung up on hours. Look for a boat with average hours (75-100 per year) and you will be fine......but again, most important is to get as much info about the previous maintanence.

4. Are there certain Diesels to avoid on the Sea Ray (i.e. 380da with 7.4 gas had water ingestion issue).

The 380DA only came with CATs. early ones had the 3116s and the later ones the 3126.....I'll defer to our resident expert, FrankW to give you the low down here.....

Appreciate the advice.

Just a few more words.....The 380DA is a great boat. We wanted the second head, and more importantly, we wanted to get into our first diesel boat. Had our 380DA had diesel, we could have gotten by with one head, and I would still have it today. When I bought my 380DA, gas was about $1.89 and didn't have ethanol. The combination of higher fuel prices, greater fuel burn rates, and E-10 put me over the edge.....

Here are some real world numbers that I can share....I bought my 380DA in 2005 and paid $176K (got a really nice deal) I traded it in in 2007 and the dealer gave me $175K. They turned around and sold it for $190K. THere are hidden numbers in those numbers....tax advantages, warranties, dealer prep stuff, etc.etc....

My neighbor sold his 2003 380DA in 2006 for $245K....he had to pay a commision on the sale......

From what I understand, the market is soft, so you should be able to get a nice deal......however, the soft market is a double edged sword if you have to sell yours also....

When I moved up, the ONLY number that I worried about was the difference between my boat and the new boat.....what I paid for the new boat and what I got for my trade were just numbers on a piece of paper....the size of the check I wrote....that was REAL....NO REGRETS....

Hope this helps....I'm sure that others will offer their opinions


Happy Fathers Day weekend,

Right back at you....enjoy the day...

Jeff
Click to expand...
 
What Dom said but I would add to make sure you look out for any vitricor issues on the inside. I had several in my 2001 380 but Sea Ray fixed them.

This boat, if you do much cruising, really needs diesels IMO.
 
Nice 380's with diesels are scarce. They are superb boats and are highly sought after so they can be hard to find. Its not that gas 380's are bad, its just that the 380DA with diesels is so much more boat in handling, performance, economy, quality of investment, etc.

Gary's Vitricore issue should have been solved on an early 2000's boat by now. Its not a serious defect, but one that is annoying and must be tended to or the Vitricore gets damaged and looks horrible. The problem stems from OSHA regs regarding spraying the glue and limiting the airborne solvents in the manufacturing process. Its just that not eough glue was applied to a lot of boats to hold the Vitricore.

Thee were some problems with mid-late 90's Caterpillar 3116's and 3126's. The problems were not design related but were bad parts supplied by vendors. By now, it is rare to find a Cat engine that has not had the defective parts replaced. Aslo in the years you are looking at, there were'nt any problems. If you want more info on the Cat problems, send me a PM and I'll get you a summary we did but did not post on CSR.

You are looking at probably one of Sea Rays top 10 ever boats in the 370/380DA with diesels...........if you haven't run one, you will be blown away by the comparison with a gas 310.
 
Sounds like I am looking at the right boat. But, you all have me a little concerend about the gas engines. Aside from the price of gas, and considering the fact I am coming out of a gas boat, so I am not spoiled yet with diesels, and this will most likely be my last gas boat, and I just don't want to go for the xtrat 30 to 40k for diesels. Am I making a mistake getting a 380 with 8.1 gas engines? Maybe for you all to answer me accurately, let me share with you the type of boating we do. It is mostly bay boating to areas witin an hour (21kt cruise) from my slip, in most cases 1/2hr. However, I do fish, and want to start diving locally again. But most of my fishing is within 5 miles of inlet. Dive sites will be mostly 10 to 20miles from inlet. We do a couple of long runs each year, approx 80 miles each way (Montauk). If the seas are calm, we go outside. Otherwise we stay inside - My wife and oldest daughter do not do well in 3ft seas, although the greenish tint does look nice with my wife's brown eyes, but it clashes with my daughters blue eyes.

Lastly, I do not want to own an underpowered boat! I like having the power when I need it. Will she cruise at 20kts, with full water, gas, and 4 to 6 passengers, or am I going to be disatisfied with her performance?

So, I know I am much better off with diesels, but there are not many of them out there in a 380da. Also, my budget is approx $150k to $160k for boat, knowing what I will get on my trade. I just care about the difference between trade and purchase price, and these numbers are realistic for my boat.

One other thing, am I doing the right thing by avoiding a florida boat (12months in the water, a lot more usage, a lot more sun, warmer saltier water, etc.).

This is a move we need to make, allowing my family of 4 to enjoy boating a lot more, ultimately keeping me and my family together, while doing the one activity/addiction, I love more than any other. I could be on the boat 5 days in a row and want a sixth, seventh, etc. It just does not get better than being out there. Hard to explain to my non-boater friends, but I know you guys understand.

I really appreciate all the great honest feed back.
 
Only you can establish the budget your your next boat, so I'm not pushing you spend more than that, however, consider my "quality of investment" point.

At this level of boating, you need to manage it like it were an investment rather than a fun toy. The extra money the diesel costs on the front end stays pretty much constant. If you maintain the boat properly, you will get almost all of it back on the other end when you sell or trade. Whereas with a gas boat, after 5-7 years, they take a huge depreciation hit because of the longevity of cooling systems and engine failures due to neglect and or deferred preventitive manitenance. Diesels don't work that way.....you pay $40-$60k more at entry then in 10 or so years the boat will bring $40-$60K more than a similar gas boat. So what is the added cost? The added benefits you get to enjoy while you own it are cheaper fuel, better economy, better handling, more dependability, better performance and a boat that will sell quickly if you need to get out of it. I didn't add manitenance because I do my own routine maintenance and repairs, but in 10 years of owning a boat with Caterpillar diesels I'm spending far less on maintenance that I did with twin Mercruiser 7.4's in my previous boat.

As far as Florida boats, it is a mistake to eliminate them from your search. Sure, there are some neglected Florida boats and the sun is a challenge, but there are a lot of extremely well maintained Florida boats out there. My boat is a reasonable example......we do take care of it. It sits beside a sales slip and even though it is 10 years old, I am frequently asked is that one new? You can ask the CSR guys who were in Florida with me last week about the boats they saw there.

As far as running time, Florida boats may have been used more regularly, but I don't find engine time to be problematical. Look for up to about 150 hours per year. Less on anyones boat means sitting around the dock and I'd rather have a '01 diesel boat with regular use at 600 total hours than a dock queen at 200 hours.

The challenge is to find the best boat for you and to do your own due diligence on a used boat. Don't rely on descriptions by a distant salesman or broker who knows he can't sell you a boat unless he gets you to come look at it. If you must start with out seeing the boat in person, then ask for current photos with a date stamp on them......listing or file photos may be really old and represent what the boat look like when it was detailed last Fall but not its current condition.

Have fun shopping..............
 
I had an '02 380 for about 4 years.

It is not underpowered at all with gas engines. Those fuel burn numbers quoted above are lightly loaded, in perfect conditions.

We averaged about 40-45 gallons per hour, but I cruised at 27-28 knots. Most of the time, the extra burn was worth it to me in terms of travel time. In 4-6 foot seas, you can burn more at that speed, but I would back down on speed. Sea conditions can have a surprising impact on fuel brun in a large gas boat like that.

The gas issue was one of consumption, longevity, and cost.

We had gas, and really the major issue was consumption. I like to go 50-60 miles out to fish. That trip out, trolling while out, and the trip back meant that my fishing trips cost more than a $1k, which was too much for me.

As Dom said, if it had diesels, I might still have it. However, we traded this year for a bridge boat with diesels, which fit us as a family of 5 for longer cruises, and suits me for fishing, with a 400 mile range.

Not all Florida boats are bad. Mine looked brand new 4 years later. The dealer I traded it in to get my current boat sold it in 2 weeks - about the fastest they have ever move a boat that large with gas engines.

If they are maintained right, they are fine.

The only other thing I would add is to make sure you have the heat exchangers, manifolds, and risers all thoroughly checked and/or replaced when you buy - these are wear items that are pricey to repair. If they are done as part of the deal, you'll 3-5 years out of them, depending upon your boating conditions.

We loved the 380. It was just time for us to get diesel, and with 3 kids who always bring friends, 3 staterooms with doors, and 2 heads, is something we needed as well (and I now have a built-in fishbox and livewell - no more hauling giant coolers and portable live wells - Yay!!).
 
One more thing.....

You are going to LOVE having a seperate shower...no more cleaning the entire head just to take a shower...

That was our number one reason to move up from the 330DA....or at least that was one of the BIG selling points I played hardball with to the admiral... :grin:


Also, Two Seperate HVAC units, full size Refridgerator and 13' beam are nothing to take lightly either.

On the fuel consumption issue....I noticed a slightly higher fuel burn from my 330DA with 7.4 MPIs to the 380DA with 8.1Ss about a 10% higer burn.
 
Thanks for all the advice. I should know this week if the 2001 380da with 8.1's is going to happen. As some of you said, I am definitely looking forward to a seperate shower, stateroom with a door, and full size refrig! Sounds like the HVAC will be good too. I know I am going to wish I got a boat with diesels, but who knows, I could be shopping for a bigger diesel boat next. Just a matter of time....
 
Lot's of good advise for you here in this thread. I, along w/many others had a 380DA (2000). It was a very nice boat with lots of comfort. I do remember working those throttles up and down waves and buying a LOT of gas that summer. I hope this deal works out for you, if not, look at 40 DA's w/ oil burners (or 410's) you may have to go back a year or two to get what you want price wise. Get a good survey and go from there. Re-read this thread and all the excellent advise from guys who ran one- then you decide. Good Luck
 
He has gotten some excellent advice. The market is still very soft. I would certainly take a deep breath and then look at 40DA oil burners! There have been several post about buying the biggest (now) boat you can get your wallet around the first time and it is very sage thinking! I would find those old post or ask the gang why buying the biggest at the start saves you much $ in the long run. Just MHO. Good luck, JC
 
just goofing around on MM's website, and they have a 1997 400db with cat's for 189 (800 hours - updated electronics and vitracore interior). seems like a good alternative to a 2001 380.

they also have a 1999 400 DA for 179.

there are lots of options for you.

gas 380's are having ridiculously low asking prices. I might have gotten out just in time. :huh:
 
Hi Jeff: Good luck with the search, you are on the right track looking at the 380. We just bought a '98 400DA with Cats a couple of weeks ago and love the boat - but the 380 with diesels was actiually our first choice. Coincidentally a broker who owned our boat personally called just as we were about to sea trial, etc. and we ended up with the 400.

Both are great choices in my view but as others have mentioned some considerations are 1. engine room space for self-maintenance 2. shower arrangement 3. second head. Both boats handle well and are relatively economical to run. We wanted diesels for a number of reasons and it was just a matter of the right, clean boat coming up while we were looking.

Best of luck Jeff!
Warren
 
I have a 2000 380 with Diesels. All I can tell you is that forgetting about the engine choice, the 380 is the perfect boat for a family of four. Rides heavy, plenty of room, and oh...did I mention the shower?! And the pocket door on the master stateroom? And the large refrigerator? And the large cockpit? And the large swim platform?

Diesels are icing on the cake!
 
I have never been on (or piloted) a gas powered 380. From what I read, my guess is that the gas powered boat is significantly faster then the diesel. I typically cruise at about 22 knots at 2500 rpm's. My boat's top speed is not much more that 24 knots.

I have seen people with gas boats claim top speeds of 28 knots or more...but I suspect that those speeds are achieved only under the most ideal conditions.

The boat is not a great fishing boat. With the wrap around seating in the cockpit, and the large swim platform, there is very little space to fish from in the cockpit. And it is pretty difficult to bring in a fish from the swim platform. You really don't want to go out there, unless you are considering "gentleman" fishing only. On my docks, they refer to my boat as a wine and cheese boat! I don't mind....I fish on their boats, and shower on mine!

Lastly, give some hard thought to the diesels. Chances are that many people who had gas 380's would still have them had they bought the diesels. Trading up is expensive. Also, regardless of how clean the boat is that you find...there will always be maintenance (on my way to replace the battery charger today), so you may want to find something you can be happy with for a long time (i.e. diesel).
 
If my 2002 380DA had diesels I would still have it today. That's a fact. Not withstanding the cost of fuel,the shorter range and "around the dock" handling, the gas boat is equal in all ways to the diesels...oh..one more thing...inherint safety of diesel fuel over gasoline....

The diesel 380DA will be heavier and will MUCH less room in the ER than the gas 380DA....I've worked in both ERs and the gas boat wins this one hands down.

I have piloted both gas and diesel 380DAs. My neighbor had a 2003 380DA diesel. I'm surprised by searaycruisen's speed numbers. They seem low to me. My 410DA will cruise 22 knots at 2265 RPM (love my digital tachs... :grin: ) Cruising at 2500 RPM on the CATS seems a little high to me...(OH FrankW...comments needed) When I would cruise with my neighbor, his diesel 380 would run right along with me. I generally cruised my gas 380-DA at about 23.5 knotts and it would top out at about 30 knots.

My 410DA will top out right around 28 knots.
 
Dominic's performance numbers are text book, real world for a loaded 410 with Cat engines.

On the Caterpillar rpm's, the 3126 and 3116's are both rated for a maximum sustained cruise of 2400 rpm. The guys who constantly complain about Cat longevity and Cat problems are the guys who refuse to keep them under 2400.
 
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