3500 portable generator



2. PORTABLE GENERATOR CARBON MONOXIDE INJURIES
Based on CPSC's National Electronic Injury Surveillance System (NEISS) database,[9] CPSC estimates that for the 9-year period of 2004 through 2012, there were 8,703 CO injuries associated with generators seen in emergency departments (ED). This estimate should not be considered definitive because physicians have noted difficulty in correctly diagnosing these injuries. Carbon monoxide poisoning may mimic many nonfatal conditions, including alcohol or drug intoxication, psychiatric disorders, flulike illnesses, and other conditions that can lead to misdiagnosis. Measurement of COHb levels in the victim's blood, which could confirm CO poisoning, can also be confounded based on the time elapsed and any supplemental oxygen treatment administered, which can lower COHb counts prior to measurement. In addition, in some incidents, first responders transported severely poisoned victims found at the scene directly to a medical facility with a hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) chamber [10] for treatment rather than to a hospital ED. These incidents would not have been captured in NEISS. For these reasons, the Commission believes that the injury estimate for this proposed rule may be low.
 
I di miss write part of the post, this is for ALL portable gensets. Not just swim platforms

USCG's report I can not find yet
 
I di miss write part of the post, this is for ALL portable gensets. Not just swim platforms

USCG's report I can not find yet
That's what I figured....don't post garbage. This subject has come up so many times each of us ought to have read ourselves blue in the face, I have. If you do your due diligence what you'll find out is that portable generators as a source of CO deaths on a boat will be the smallest on the list. The boats main engines and built in generators account for the majority of the CO deaths.

I am by no means recommending their use. To be honest it's not because I think they're so dangerous in themselves....the true danger is the people that use them or maybe I should say don't bother to learn how to use them. You know who I'm talking about....that guy that pulls the battery out to quiet down the CO alarm.

Here you go, https://www.cpsc.gov/s3fs-public/No...une 2017.pdf?FL5ZFHu050hLH_NGRwJtpM2EE4JHeveV
 
One of the various summaries Frank has posted....
I swore I was not going to participate in another discussion on this, but I cannot let with go with only 1/4 the caution needed. The risks are far more than just CO:

Carbon Monoxide

Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.

Uncontained Fuel System Vents

The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.

Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices

The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in ot disconnected.

Lack of Continuous Grounding

Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.

The Honda iU series generators are investors. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not. Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.

The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.

In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume and ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.

If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and the relatively few deaths attributed to CO, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators on a boat. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.

If you want to test my superficial risk theory, try this: Tell your wife you are buying a portable generator for the boat because it is cheaper and you don’t think the risk of your family not waking up one day was sufficient to require spending the extra money. Also tell her you didn’t bother to consider anything but CO and that you are not ignoring the risks if fire, shock and explosion to your wife and kids.

Let us know how the dog house sleeps……………
 
From Frank Webster (Hope he don't mind):
PORTABLE GENERATORS ON BOATS



Carbon Monoxide

Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.

Uncontained Fuel System Vents

The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.

Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices

The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in or disconnected.

Lack of Continuous Grounding

Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.


The Honda iU series generators are inverters. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not. Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.


The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.


In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume and ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.


If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and the relatively few deaths attributed to CO, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators on a boat. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.
 
I'll only add that the infusion of water into the exhaust stream does not appreciably dilute CO emissions. Simply placing an exhaust hose into water may muffle the sound but has no effect on toxic level of the gas produced.
 
Thats why there are "Darwin Award Candidates" and "Darwin Award Winners"
A quick way to take yourself out of the human gene pool
 
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From Frank Webster (Hope he don't mind):
PORTABLE GENERATORS ON BOATS



Carbon Monoxide

Is simple to grasp, breathe it in a confined space and you don’t wake up. Permanently mounted marine generators have their exhausts plumbed to exit at or very near the waterline and away from closed occupied spaces.

Uncontained Fuel System Vents

The fuel systems on Honda and other portable generators are vented to the atmosphere and their carburetors have a bowl drain that releases fuel inside the generator case. That means where you run it, store it or put it under way will have gasoline fumes released in the area and if the bowl drain leaks, you have raw fuel spilled and an explosive liquid in the compartment with the generator.

Lack of ignition protection on electrical devices

The electrical components on portables are not ignition protected like marine generator electrical components are. This means you could easily have an arc or spark anytime contact opens or closes or whenever something is plugged in or disconnected.

Lack of Continuous Grounding

Portable generators pose an additional shock hazard since the portable is not grounded to the boat or to a shore side ground. Likely not a problem with a drill or power tool, but if you connect it to your boat's AC system, you have essentially disconnected the green wire.


The Honda iU series generators are inverters. An inverter drives both line and neutral so it is possible to have voltage between neutral and ground. With ground bonded the the boat's bonding system, which mean to the water, this means a shock hazard may exist that normally would not. Anyone who ignores all the above risks and insists on using a portable generator should use a very good, sensitive multi-meter to throughly prove out the electrical system. That the reverse polarity light is lit is clear indication of a potential problem.


The USCG governs only boat manufacturers and the manufacturers voluntarily subscribe to ABYC guidelines, so there is no "law" against using portable generators on boats. However, both the USCG and ABYC say using portable generators on boat is a bad idea and regularly caution boaters against it.


In spite of the fact that Honda’s advertising says that boating is a popular use of their generators, They have not addressed the grounding, gas fume and ignition protection issues and those risks do indeed exist.


If you are one of those who jumped on the CO train and the relatively few deaths attributed to CO, you are not fully considering all the risks of using portable generators on a boat. While accidents may be rare, you do substantially increase your risk of becoming a "statistic" when using a portable generator on a boat.......you put your family unnecessarily at risk when you do.




Of course Frank doesn't mind.............it might save lives and your posting it saves me hunting it up again for the umpteenth time.
 
Hi has anyone tried the 3500 watt habor freight generator it states it can run a 15,000 btu rv ac unit.. this might be a great gen. for no gen boats that have a 30amp plug.
Not bad in price with a 20% coupon.
I
I know a few guys that have bought these, and so far they are happy with them... they are as quiet as the Honda 3000 and provide that little bit more "umph". If they last as long as the Honda, you can't beat the price... time will tell. Heard one guy say, "well I can buy 5 of these for the price of the Honda!".

Disclaimer: I am in no way recommending this (or any other portable generator) for boat/marine applications.
 
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8460569/4-bonnaroo-paramedics-poisoned-carbon-monoxide

CO poisoning can happen anywhere at any time.

Be safe and have current CO detectors.

The Lifespan of Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Detectors
Most smoke alarms have a lifespan of eight to 10 years, and again, replace the batteries every year. A smoke detector with a lithium battery or a hard-wired smoke detector can last 10 years, at which time you would just replace the whole unit.

Carbon monoxide detectors last between five and seven years. The recommendation is to replace them every five years because their ability to detect carbon monoxide is questionable after that point.
 
one good thing from all this...

i bought 2 new battery CO detectors and will install this weekend for total of 3! The Admiral has to have AC overnight.
 
one good thing from all this...

i bought 2 new battery CO detectors and will install this weekend for total of 3! The Admiral has to have AC overnight.

Just bought two more myself and put them in this past weekend. We now have three as well. After reading about the couple on Lake Lanier and now this thread, you can't be too safe.
 
Maybe we are too hard on Generator threads.... They are kind of like a public service announcement every couple of months :) .... and we see a spike in CO detector sales and popcorn and no doubt a few generators ...which in turn helps the economy...
 
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CO !!! (sorry it's a pet peeve of mine..LOL)
Maybe we are too hard on Generator threads.... They are kind of like a public service announcement every couple of months :) .... and we see a spike in CO2 detector sales and popcorn and no doubt a few generators ...which in turn helps the economy...
 
i think way more people drown than get co poisoned during boating .

if the skipper is not a complete dumbass i guess there is nothing dangerous in a honda generator . if he is a complete dumbass he should stop boating at all .

run only in fauvorite wind direction , and not overnight.
 
I know it's been beat to death, but is it possible that the guy with the portable generator on his swim platform may actually be at lower risk? He's read all of these threads, is scared to death that as soon as he starts the generator he'll fall over and die, and is very careful to monitor the CO and wind direction.

The guy with the old, factory installed generator is lulled into a false sense of security. He just thinks of it like another system on the boat and doesn't consider location to other boats, running condition of the gen, or wind direction.

Just playing devils advocate, but I have seen both sides of this.
 
i think way more people drown than get co poisoned during boating .

if the skipper is not a complete dumbass i guess there is nothing dangerous in a honda generator . if he is a complete dumbass he should stop boating at all .

run only in fauvorite wind direction , and not overnight.


It appears that you don't read a thread before commenting........read post #27
 

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