3126 CAT needs replacement!

searaycruisn

searaycruisn

New Member
Nov 10, 2006
242
Old Saybrook, CT
Boat Info
2000 380 Sundancer
Engines
CAT 3126
First a broken shaft, now, the engine needs replacement! I am sick over this one!

Eight hours after the broken shaft is replaced, a fuel injector explodes and the engine ends up with a bent push rod. Shop says it is cheaper to buy a new engine, then to have Caterpillar rebuild my engine.

What is up with this? The engine has 600 hours on it. Fuel injector explodes, push rod bends, and poof.....the engine is shot!

What do I do?

Is it true that it costs as much to rebuild as to replace? Also, finding a new 3126 is next to impossible. Shop found a 3126 which they say I could buy, but that the engine would have to be de-tuned down to 310 HP. Not sure what the HP rating is on that engine, but it is a brand new engine, never been run.

This is getting really expensive. Insurance company denied the claim. Does Sea Ray have any responsibility for the shaft break? Is the engine failure related to the shaft break? Does CAT have any responsibility here? Boat is a 2000.....engines are "just broken in"!

I know....I am ranting....but my head is spinning right now.
 
I don't follow that explanation...

How does a fuel injector explode? and so what if it did? In order to get an "explosion" equal to C4 explosive to bend a rod, you would have to have oxygen as well... But I'm not an expert... but if some mechanic told me that, my bullshit flag would be thrown in the air.

However... eight hours after you have a shaft break you have a bent rod? That sounds related to me...
 
a bent pushrod or connecting rod? when an injector fails to where it leaks fuel everywhere you usually end up hydro-locking the engine and bending a connecting rod(s).

If its just a bend pushrod, what caused it to fail?
 
I thought a few weeks ago the shop determined it was from the shaft break and they were pretty confident that insurance was paying for it?
 
The insurance company has taken the position that the failure of the shaft was the result of "metal fatigue". I have to explore the appeal process, but their initial decision is that they are denying the claim.

In the meantime, I am being told by people at Caterpillar that if I do not jump on this engine that I will most likely be looking at rebuilding my engine (which would result in a shorter warrantee period, and a lot of potential delays).

So, I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I opted, for now, to assume responsibility for the repair bills, and I told the shop to go ahead and secure the new engine.

Anyone think that either Sea Ray or Caterpillar has some responsibility here? I have all service records on this engine. It has always been serviced by the local Caterpillar distributor.
 
I think you need to get a second opinion.

What are they charging you for the 'new' engine? What was the rebuild cost?

Do you have pictures of the broken shaft up close? Usually you can tell if the failure was fatigue or not.

Doug
 
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My marina has pictures of the shaft, as well as the shaft itself. I do not have any photos yet.

I am waiting for a quote from the marina on how much all this is going to cost...
 
I agree with a second opinion suggestion. how do you know that they aren't just bluffing with "its the only engine availible" to get you to jump on it quick?
 
These engines are not like small block Chevrolets; they don't inventory hundreds of them. Recently, a 580SS with 3406's had a rod break and the boat was at our dealer and out of the water 5 months while Caterpillar built one. A lot of "stuff" happens to an idle boat in that length of time.

Here are some thoughts on the shaft breaking.....

A metalurgical lab can determine the cause of the shaft failure. Get control of the shaft and don't let it "go missing" in case you need to prove the cause of the failure. This is important because broken shafts never stay around a boat yard.......an 1-1/2" stainless rod is handy for a lot of projects.

Metal fatigue means the shaft was flexing. For one to flex, something had to have been out of alignment and Sea Ray is not likely to assume responsibility for alignments on a 9 year old boat.

Caterpillar makes engines; they have nothing to do with what they go in, how they are installed, or with what accessories they are used. Dead end on help here.

If you have an all risk insurance policy, I'm having problems seeing why a broken shaft wouldn't be covered. Have you just gotten the adjuster's first answer......the guy in the Kia comes out, looks at the shaft takes 2 pictures , goes home, says "Yep-metal fatigue", stamps it Claim Denied, and he looks like a hero. Absent negligence on your part, wouldn't this fall under all risk? I would get the policy and read the exclusions and if you think you are in the right, then go up the line with the insurance claims people.
 
That is good advice Frank....I just got the denial verbally yesturday. I need to review my policy this weekend.

Assuming that I am going to put the new engine in the boat, do you have any thoughts on what the value is of the old engine, and how I might go about recouping some money out of that? Is there a channel for selling my old block? Should I put it on EBAY? Is there a major engine rebuilder somewhere in the country who would be interested in buying my old engine?

I am still waiting to find out what / if CAT will give me a core credit on my new engine if I give them the old one.
 
There is usually a core charge on a re-man engine, but I don't know about a new one. My guess is that the engine has some value if the casting and crankshaft are not damaged. Rebuilding a diesel means new cylinder liners and new pistons anyway, so your engine should be rebuildable.

I also think there is some value for the lower end guys as well. A shade tree mechanic with some diesel experience can rebuild a 3126 for the cost of a re-build kit and a couple of days work. So, eBay? , Craig's list, etc. ?

I'm struggling with why a new engine is better than a re-man in this instance. Location means a lot in these cases, but down here on the coast, reman engines are the norm when once has a major issue. In fact, where there is no casting damage and the engine is removable..like with a DA instead of a bridge boat.......the local Cat or Cummins guys do the rebuild in their shop in town.
 
The warrantee is better on a new engine then a rebuild of my engine. Also, I think that on at resale, although none of this sounds good, it is better to have had a brand new engine installed, then to try to sell someone an engine that has been rebuilt, and for which the warrantee has expired.

Also, I am being told that the cost of the new engine is the same as what it would cost me to have CAT rebuild my engine.

Therefore, the new engine seems like the better option.

I am going to pursue the insurance claim too....but I need to grab this engine if I want it.
 
Eric, sorry to hear of the trouble, pursue the ins co as FW suggests, call them once a week if necessary. Good luck
 
Injectors explodes and destroys the engine, water in fuel will blow the tip off but even that worst would be 1 hole. I just don't see an injector doing that. Maybe a little more down time but you should be able to rebuild for a lot less than replace. True that parts warranty is probably less than what the complete engine will have.
 
So far I have gotton a price of $11,500 to rebuild the long block, or $14,500 to rebuild the long block and all other components (Fuel pump, water pump, turbo, etc.). This is from an independent (not CAT) diesel engine rebuilding shop.

Still waiting for price of new engine.

Will call Zieglercat.com on Monday.
 
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Eric:

If you don't already belong to Boatdiesel.com, I'd suggest you do so and post this topic on that board. There's a lot of serious diesel knowledge there (diesel mechanics) that can give you more specific insight into whether the shaft failure could have caused the problems you're facing- well worth the $25. to join.

No, SR would not have any responsibility here...and it would take a metallurgist to determine the cause of the shaft failure.

This is a complicated issue. Even IF the catastrophic engine failure could be linked to the shaft, the cause of the shaft failure is still unknown. If the shaft snapped due to an improperly aligned keyway, or misaligned or worn bearing that scored the shaft- it wouldn't matter; this wouldn't be covered under your insurance. You need to read the specific language in your policy to determine what "might" be covered. "wear and tear" and "maintenance" related failures aren't...

I'd find the very best diesel engine surveyor money can buy- and not just rely on your "yard guys". Honestly, though, I think you may be in for an uphill battle to get insurance to cover this loss.

I know the feeling. Second time out with my boat after purchase a hose clamp blew on my port engine and dumped all the coolant into the bilge in seconds. After my mechanics got a look at discolored manifolds that literally had the paint cooked off of them they told me I was looking at twenty + large for a replacement Cat reman. Somehow the head gasket held and no engine damage was done- but I didn't sleep for days...

Diesels cost big bucks to buy- and to repair. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
I happen to have a bit of a background in failure analysis. There are some telltale signs that can give a trained eye a good idea of how and why a failure happened. To do a thorough analysis though, you'd want a electron microscope, this is provided that the failure surface wasn't damaged after fracture. If the shaft whirled away, it's likely that the surface is in good shape... However, it seems to be human nature to take two pieces of something broken and put them back together... You would not believe how much damage this does to the fracture surface.

Anyway, if you have the shaft, look at it with a magnifying glass and see if you can see a point most likely near the edge where ripples concentrically emanate. It will then become more of a dimpled surface with very light cupping at the outer edge... This would be telltale of a nucleation point of the crack... Each ripple would be a cycle where the crack grew (for high speed shafts, these would most likely be very small, hence the SEM, electron microscope) and stopped... The lightly dimpled area would be fast fracture.

So even if this sort of a fatigue pattern could be identified, the next question would be what caused it. Corrosion... Hydrogen Embrittlement... Inclusion at time of drawing the steel... There are so many reasons beyond missing something during maintenance and it could very well come down to opinion by whoever does the analysis. Heck, to be thorough you'd even want a compositional analysis and a hardness test to make sure they didn't mess up the heat treat... good luck, feel free to message me if you want more information.

Now I'll admit a limited knowledge about diesel engines, but I still can't imagine how a shaft failure could cause an injector to fail. Depending on what state the boat was in when the shaft failed... For instance, were you at near peak power on the engine? If that were true, the unloaded engine at max throttle would want to spin up beyond design RPM. Now most newer engines I know of have rev limiters and will cut the fuel off, not always instantaneously, but at least fairly quickly.

So when the shaft failed, did you have an over speed on the engine? If you did, then I could see all sorts of bad things happening... not sure on a diesel if the valves would float or if they design the engine to be non-interference... but I think you might get the picture...
 
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