260 VS 280

180 Sport

Member
Oct 17, 2006
79
Tampa, Fl
Boat Info
2005 180 Sport
Engines
3.0 135 HP
I am looking to trade up to a cruiser in the next 6 mos or so and I am having a hard time comparing the cost of ownership between the 260 vs 280. The 260 is easier to trailer if needed, but I do like the designated table in the 28 cabin, and do prefer the twin engines. I saw some info online that they both get around 2.5 MPG and its not much of a difference between the 84g vs 100g tank. I would assume the twins would use more fuel....is this info accurate. Its seems that there are good deals out there on some 2005-06 28's that seem like its possible to get more boat for not that much more $$$$. But....I need to consider the cost of ownership in the equation.....thats where all of the experienced CSR friends come in :grin: Any feedback is appreciated.
 
First off hi there fellow Tampa person.

I'm new to boating myself but in my opinion if the 260 has 1 engine and the 280 has 2. Go for the 2. Also they always say get as much boat as you can cause you will aways want to upgrade and upgrading often is not cheap.

As for 2 engines think about cruising somewhere and 1 engine dies. You still got one to get you home.
 
Are you definately trailering? It would be a little easier trailering the 260, but I wouldn't know from experience. Jeremy trailers his 280 and I believe he has no trouble at all. I think you need to consider how long you plan on having this boat. Most people on here will tell you to buy the largest boat you can because of the costs of getting in and out of boats.

From what I have seen, there isn't a huge difference in price considering the differences in features. Depending on the year, you could get in to a older 280 for the same price as a newer 260. They have been manufacturing the current body style of the 280 since 2001.

Earlier this year at the boat show I studied both very carefully and I decided on the 280 over the 260. You have a wider beam and more LOA. Having the dinette is nice too. Like you mentioned, the option for twins is there. Overall, you'll get more space with the 280, but maintenance and running cost will be higher. I say go for the 280!
 
Morpheus,

Good to here from a local sea ray owner. You made two very good points and those are both big reasons why I am leaning towards the 28. I am just trying to get some info regarding the cost of ownership. I would probably go with rack storage, so the towing difference wouldnt be a big deal, but I want to get some feedback on fuel cost and maintence between the two.
 
Brent.....I am sure it wont be hard to talk me into the 28....Its only money right? :thumbsup:
 
Cost of ownership?

Well. . .you GOT to believe that the engine efficiency will be lower in the same way a V4 is more efficient than a V8. I run twin 5.7L in a 280SS. . .and get about 7-10 GPH. Miles per gallon? No clue. I spend a fair amount of time idling in no wake zones. I was expecting much lower fuel economy (because I don't run too long at cruise)

Maintenance? Well. . . .if you do it yourself, it won't be so bad. If you get maintenance done FOR you . . .take your current maintenance costs and multiply by two. My oil changes, drive maintenance, winterization, and tune up costs are all PER ENGINE.

The stuff outside the engines. . .won't go up by much. Some of your charges are "by foot", such as lift costs and marina costs. Those will go up by just under 10% (28/26)
 
Both are nice boats. I would go with the 280, but it will be more expensive to maintain, particularly if you get twins (and I would get the twin 5.0's). Also, you won't get 2.5 MPG in the 280, in fact, You probably won't get it in the 260 either. I would expect 1.5 to 1.9 in the 280, and 1.9 to 2.3 in the 260, depending on conditions.
 
I bought my 260DA because it was the most boat I could afford and I wanted a new boat not a used one. For the money I paid, I might have also been able to purchase a four or five year old 280. I certainly could have purchased a used 260DA cheaper than what I paid for my new 260DA as well. So first decide whether you want new or used, then see how much you will have to lay out to make your purchase. It's also possible to go larger than a 280 for the same money if you are willing to buy a boat that is say 10 years old.

In any case, your budget, both for the initial purchase and in ongoing operating costs, ought to dictate which boat you buy. And has been said so many times in the past. get the most boat you can afford. You will never regret that decision
 
Fuel difference is pretty much negligable. the T4.3's will burn just a hair more. fixed dinette is GREAT. when you combine the wider beam and twin's and length on the 280, it's a much steadier ride. depending on how you get the work done will be a big difference in the cost. I try to do most of the work myself, so the cost for me is time. small stuff like plugs and filters are fairly cheap. the larger stuff can add up if you do both engines but most of the time it's one thing that breaks, usually not two.
 
We were also looking at the 260 and 280. We went with the 280 because with our record, we would have ended up upgrading in a couple of years anyway :huh: . We also trailer ours from storage to the ramp every weekend, 4-5 miles one way and I only have a 3/4 Ford with V8, it's a load but I go very slow and make sure I have plenty of stopping distance. No problem loading and unloading, I do put her in 4H just in case. Hopefully next year we can get a slip, if not, I'll be upgrading the tow vehicle.
 
If you're going to start using the rack storage system, not having a trailer to maintain will be a wash with adding another engine. When I sold my 250, I was just as happy to see the trailer go as anything.
 
Here are some other things to think about. First, there are extra costs with the twins because you have twice the maintenance. That is pretty easy to figure out.

The fuel economy is a little better with the 260 because it weighs less. Remember that at planing speeds, it is going to take so many GPH to move the boat based on its mass. It doesn't matter if you burn it in a 6 cylinder or an 8. The two exceptions to that are at WOT and at displacement speeds. This goes against the way we normally think about fuel economy, but a car engine loafs along at maybe a 20% load where a planing hull boat will cruise at 70-80% load. So what works in a car - smaller engine = better economy - is not true with either of these boats.

To me, the real question is how are you going to store it? If you are going to leave it in the water, I would argue that the I/O's will be more expensive to maintain year to year and would instead look to an inboard. If you are dry storing it, the question then becomes can your budget handle the extra $500 or so a year to pull the 2nd outdrive. If that is not a problem, get the bigger boat as you will appreciate the extra beam (9 1/2 vs 8 1/2).

Personally, I am not willing to pay for the "security" of twins. A well maintained single is very reliable, and many of the things that can go wrong with an engine are either electrical or fuel related, which affect both engines anyway. The decision for twins is better based on resale and horsepower needs.

Also, since you are in Florida, check on insurance costs before you upgrade. I have been told (unconfirmed, though) that 30 feet is the magic number for insurance, and that it becomes difficult to obtain above that.

Hope that helps.
 
The most important consideration in deciding the size of the boat is "How are you going to use it?"

A day boat needn't have great length or width, and would be more fun to drive.
A slip boat, that is also a weekend cottage, is much more comfortable with as much width and length as affordable or practical.
Neither a 26 nor a 28 is trailer-able without a very heavy duty tow vehicle.
Also, consider the hassles of towing and the expenses of purchasing and maintaining a trailer, not to mention a $40,000.00+ heavy duty tow vehicle for a boat in excess of 22'.
Think "Mack truck".
We've been hiring out our hauling for years, as we've gone the trailer route a long time ago. No regrets, just prefer the slip "lifestyle".
Also, while gasoline is expensive, the cost of fuel ($4.00 a gallon at my marina :smt013 ), compared to any and all other costs of boat ownership, is rather negligeable.
Boat price, boat maintenance, insurance, slip fee, hauling, winter storage, shrink wrapping, and on and on...
Don't pick a boat for fuel economy, as it doesn't exist.
Most boats in the 26 - 32 category get 1 mpg in smooth seas.
Some a little less, some a little more. And 2 engines don't use twice as much as one engine.
On a 70 mile trip, with my single 454 in my 26 footer, I used within 1 gallon of gas as my friend used in his 30 footer with twin 305s.
we both had identical outdrives.
Even though they're sometimes in wider heavier boats, twins don't work as hard as a single.

Good luck with your decision. :thumbsup:
 
I tend to agree: From what I see. . .for a boat running 50 hours per year . . .the fuel cost will be less than maintenance / ownership costs.

And although I don't have any evidence to support this. . .I really think two engines do not burn double the fuel.

I now plan to trailer my 280SS round trip twice per year. (year start/end plus a mid-season cleaning/maintenance haul). Cost for each round trip is $400. For $800/yr savings. . .it is not worth having a trailer and suitable tow vehicle.


Hmmm. .. .actually. . .I have NOT run the math. . .If I get a 5 yr old truck. . . I wonder if it would be worthwhile to tow my own boat. . . .
 
My first recommendation is to go get into and drive both boats.... if possible drive each boat with the various power plant configs. Bring your wife and spend a good deal of time in a mock usage of the boat. Drive the boat with the normal crew load you would expect (avg)..... run it with full fuel, water, etc..... as you likely would..... sit on top of the toilet seat ... is there enough room to be comfy doing business? Think about doing dishes in the sink.... sink a good size? enough to lay in the berths?

To clear things up a bit... both the 260 and the 280 are single engine boats in the base configuration. You may opt (as in optional) for twins in the 280.

260 size:

Overall length including platform 28' (integrated platform)
Beam 8'6"

280 size:

Overall length including platform 31'1" (bolt on platform)
Beam 9'5"


Neither of these boats come in a v-drive, non-sterndrive config and from your initial post it seems like the 260 and 280 are the boats being talked about here.... so if you are looking at a wet slip this is something to be aware of (I am unable to comment on the additional actions needed by wet slipped sterndrive owners as I trailer and boat in primarily freshwater).

Both boats are trailerable. The 9'5" beam of the 280 traditionally (not all states... check with yours) requires an oversized type permit in each state you will be travelling as well as signage requirements during the tow (check with your state and local requirements). While a full blown semi is not required (although it would be cool to have) I would personally not pull my 280 with anything less than a diesel powered pickup..... the problem is not starting the load.... rather stopping it.... so a well built trailer with properly sized braking is something I would consider required.

You do not mention who will be performing the maint on your potential new (or new to you) 260 or 280.... I personally perform all of my own maint.... thus my costs do not include the steak and shrimp dinner I buy myself in lieu of paying myself an hourly rate. Here are some examples.

Oil changes approx $62 (2x 1 gallon Merc Synthetic blend $20 ea., 2x1 quart Merc Synthetic blend $6 ea. 2x Merc filter $5) time approx 2 hours including running the engines, allowing for complete drain, flush with clean quart of Merc synthetic blend... then fill with 1 gall per each engine.

Fuel filters (water separating & inline boost pump filters) $80 (2x water sep $8 ea. 2x inline $32)

Cleaning flame arrestors 15 min (dawn + water + air compressor)

Drain drives, remove trim cylinders, remove 2x6 nylocks, pull drives, check alignment, check bellows, grease spline and u-joints as applicable, grease gimbal bearing, grease engine coupler greases approx $6 a tube.... x4 types = $24 2x6 replacement nylocks $6
approx 5 hours

As far as fuel burn I traditionally cruise at 30-35 MPH.... and I have seen a burn range from 7.2 - 8.4 GPH per engine (14.4 to 16.8 GPH for the boat).... this is per the smartcraft guages..... so we are right around the 2 MPG mark..... give or take a bit.... this is not a gas mileage friendly hobby

other types of maint such as shower sump, genset (optional), A/C, Heat (optional) "filter" cleaning, sanitizing the fresh water tank is all very similar....... and carries similar cost if any.....

The genset burns at or below .5 gal per hour.

Making the transition from a sport boat 220 Select to 280DA myself.... the way you boat seems to change a bit..... in the sport boat.... I seemed to want to always be moving..... from one place to the other.... to cool down (wind) or just run..... while I love to run in the 280... I find it makes time at anchor so very much more enjoyable..... too hot click on the genset.... and sit in the wonderful AC cabin...... hungry.... go whip something up in the galley....... wife wants to watch a movie... again... no problem.... flat screen with DVD is in the Air conditioned cabin.....

We looked at both the 280 and 260 when looking for our cruiser..... the additional space in the cockpit (especially in the bathroom) coupled with the availability of twin engines was the reason I chose the 280. Both very nice boats.... drive em both.... I think you will know which is best for you.

optional bells and whistles I could not imagine not having: genset (power anything on the hook and genset starts when batteries to weak to start mains), windlass (the anchor on these boats is heavy.... not impossible... but heavy), AC/Heat (like home when you want/need it)

optional stuff I can do without - macerator


If you decide upon the 280.... I think the twin 4.3's are ideally suited for this boat.... gives the most room between the engines and genset/watertank (this is where you stand in the engine compartment when servicing most service points). Nice power.... gas consumption nearly equal to the single 496.... a very nice tight quarter manuevering. One dies.... you can easily limp home on the other....

good luck.... get out there and see the boats for yourself.... we can toss your recommendations all day long.... but only you know what you like and want.
 
I know you limited your question to 260DA or 280DA, but if I were you, I'd think outside the box on this one.

In your location a better long term boat would be a pure inboard. They handle better and are much cheaper to maintain even though the costs for services purchased by the foot are incrementally higher. Either a 31 or a 320DA can be dry stacked and for my money, the current 320DA is going to end up being one of better boats Sea Ray has ever offered.

Besides, it saves you 4-foot-itis next year...................
 
Thanks for all the responses...this is very valuable information to me. Jeremy, I appreciate you taking the time to go over the maintence also. For me, the bay gets pretty rough at times, so the bigger beam will most likely be the way to go. As far as my usage, I will definitely plan on getting the most boat for my money. I would like to stick within the 2 year range and I have seen many for sale with the extended engine warranties....this would be my ideal scenario. I had thought about going in the 30/32 range, but like it was mentioned here in Fla the ins may be an issue. As I would love to go up the 30' range, I dont think I could budget for the $600-800 fuel fill ups. The 28 Fuel cost are probably as much as I would comfortably budget right now. I hope to find a waterfront home in the next 5 yrs, so I fugure I can wait until then to move up to the 32' range ... the money I would save in slip/rack fees would make up for the fuel and maintence costs :smt017 I hope. Another issue is the storage....while i would prefer a slip to just be able to have acces to the boat and just get away would be great. However, I still have a hard with the boat sitting in salt water and dealing with the extra maintanence from that . There is one marina with lifts and covered slips, but there is quite a waiting list....so rack storage may be the way to go for now. I guess I am leaning towards the 28 from the info I received along with knowing our boating habits /wants. My next step will be to take Jeremy's advice and test each boat...handling, size. toilet, ect. Thanks again for all the responses and feel free to keep them coming.
 
I think it is a really good idea to be discussing your options this way. It is also a good idea to consider where you will be boat-wise in five years as well.

The last thing you want to do is buy a 26 this year, and a 32 next year. Better to look around and just buy the 32 next year. :thumbsup:
___________________________

A few facts and figures from the SeaRay website

26DA 7500 lbs 84 gallon tank
28DA 8500 lbs 100 gallon tank (SINGLE ENGINE)
32DA 14,100 lbs 200 gallon tank

Note that the 28DA with twins is gonna weigh more than 8500 lbs. To tow this beast, you will probably need 12,000 lbs tow capacity (considering the extra engine, fuel, water, provisions and margin). Did you say you were going to tow this? How often? Would you consider a prohauler? Like I said earlier. . .I factor $800 per year for hauling (two round trips)-> but I don't pay for owning a truck or trailer. And if I did own a truck. . .I certainly don't need to shell out gas and capital for one that can tow 10,000+lbs!

I suspect you simply would not be towing a 32DA :grin:

------------------------

I think the fuel cost issue is a Red Herring. Sure, a 200 gallon tank costs $700+ to fill, while a 100 gallon tank costs $350 to fill. But how often are you filling the tanks? How different are the fuel burn rates between these boats (Especially if the 32DA has diesels)?

I would suspect the fuel burn rates look like this (assume $4.00 gas and 100 hours per year)

26DA (350mag) - 12gph - $4800/year
28DA (T-4.3) - 15gph - $6000/year
32DA (Diesel) - 18gph - $7200/year

WARNING: I just made up the burn rates. :grin: I have no idea what the real numbers are. I am averaging under 10gph on my T-5.7LX engines, but I am *very* atypical.

The bigger tank on the 32DA is there to give you longer legs . . .not because you are spending twice as much on fuel.


The MUCH bigger factor is capital cost. The difference between the 28DA and 32DA fuel is $12,000 *over 10 years* in my example. But the capital cost delta *today* is probably $60,000.
_ _ _ _ _

Regarding the 28DA vs 26DA configuration: I am a big fan of U seats, vs opposing benches. But -> Don't underestimate how much roomier a cockpit gets when you add 12" of beam. Beam adds more than just stability! I have more of a bench seat at my helm, rather than a captains chair. I like the bench because it gives more room. . .and it makes it easier to drag the other half over to the helm!

- - - --- - - -

Future considerations: Waterfront home, eh? Cool. How will that impact your boating? Will you be spending more NIGHTS on the boat, or just more DAYS? When we talk about grilling out with my boat -> I head home, tie up and walk 10' to the grill. When we are done. . .we head back out on the water! (or head out to the beach. Whatever!)

Will you need more cabin space and deck space for parties on the boat, or will you need more lawn furnature for the party to spread across the boat and yard?

In terms of costs. . .I don't see a waterfront home affecting maintenance or fuel. It only impacts fuel and maintenance if you put less hours on the engines.

Without doubt, for a waterfront home, the slip costs just *go away*. Five minute maintenance jobs truely take five minutes, not 5 minutes plus 40 minute drive time. Time to get the ladies ready to go boating will exceed the time you need to get the you and the boat ready for boating (these steps are now parrallel, not in series!)

You just haul once a year for bottom maintenance (get a pro hauler to bring it to your house for a few days! Like I said. . about $400 for a 28DA in my area round trip -> this is actually competitive with my local yard short-haul rate).
___________________________

Note that if you get a waterfront home. . you will want to consider lift options.

A 26DA can go on most any lift. With the 28DA, you will want a 10,000lb lift. I think you are past a break point for a cantelever lift (two pole, at bulkhead) -> so you would need a beefier cantelever, or a true four post lift. I strongly DOUBT you will want a 32DA on a cantelever lift. Four post lifts are better in general.

When I shopped, I saw a major break point at 13,000lbs for the four pole lifts. 10,000lb lifts appeared common, with 13,000lbs being only a few dollars more. But a 32DA is not going on a 13,000lb lift. You will need a 16,000lbs+. Those lifts will require bigger physical beams for the lift. They also need bigger piles. You may be at a point where you talk doubled up piles, rather than single piles.

This is not prohibitive when you consider buying a $400,000 dollar home, but is a factor if the home you are buying already has a lift. . that is too small.

Also, with a four post lift. . you need to consider what is behind the lift. Does your neighbor have another 32DA moored 20' behind you?

I ultimately balked on the lift option for my 280SS because of "all in" installed capital cost ($17K in NJ for 10-13,000lbs :smt013 ), and the fact that the lift would have limited future boat options

_ _ _ _ _________

Summary: There is more to boating decisions than "Buy the biggest boat you can afford". There are other break points!

Going from single engines to twin engines is a major break point from a maintenance and annual operating cost perspective.

The 24DA is a break point if you want trailer on a weekly basis (Your milage may vary). The 29DA is probably a breakpoint on seasonal trailering with your own vehicle.

For boat lifts. . I think the 29DA is probably a breakpoint (I don't think the 30DA will go on a 13,000lb lift).

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Bottom line: Get the 280DA and don't look back. :cool:
 
comsnark,

Thanks so much for the very informative reply. I really appreciate it. It gave me alot of useful information for now and the future. I definitely would prefer a lift for any boat if I was on the water...I too have though about the lift options and limitations, but I look forward to having that problem down the road!!!! :grin: For now, I agree that the 28 is probably the best fit for us and I am sure it would meet our needs for the next 3-5 years. I too am a fan of the u shaped seats and really like the cockpit layout on the 260....but the 280 does have enough pros to make up for the seating layout. (not thats its bad) I will probably enjoy my 180 for the next 6 mos and take my time to find the right deal on a 28' SD.

Thanks again for the info,

John
 

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