210 vs 250 hp 240 Sundancer: need some comments!

[teamgomez]

Crossed paths with what sounds like a boat coming from an "upgrader" (he's moving up to a 35' and needs to sell the 240 to keep the Admiral happy). Vessel has new fridge/bellows/throttle,shift cables/LED lighting/bottom paint/2005 EZ loader trailer/Overnight pkg/camper canvas/Garmin/Fishfinder....all the checks in the block EXCEPT it is a 5.7L that is a little hard to wake up after sitting for awhile. I'm savvy on the fuel starvation issues after sitting awhile but interested in/if you have personal experience driving a 1997 5.7L versus the 1998 5.7L equipped 240's (210 vice 250hp, respectively). I would much rather have a larger engine working less to get me where I need to go, but if I wait around much longer to find the "right boat", I'll find myself deployed overseas looking at a year away from my kids and potentially no boat!

I'm also in violation of Manlaw#1 which states no man may own property that has empty boat slip (wife knows it as Maryland law...kid might fall in empty boat slip and drown, you know...).

Anyways- w/ a 6 and a 4yr old I don't need to jerk 200lbs of bacon fat out of the water on a single stick (heck, with the copperheads I've seen around here, I'll be hiring somebody to get my fenders out of the water if I drop one in...). Just need to get across the Potomac and concerned that a 200hp won't have the giddy up I'm after. It has been repropped and owner says she goes well...going to request sea trial w/ full bag o' fuel this weekend. Any ideas what should I see at cruise and WOT on the GPS with the 210 and 250? Is the GPH difference worth considering?

Thanks all!

 

[Searay Jim]

I can't say I can compare either, but I'll say this. 210HP vs. 250HP is talking peak HP which is where you'll likely spend about 3 minutes a year running.....WOT/Max RPM.

The base motors aren't that different, if at all so it's likely only a difference in EFI vs. carb or 2 different carb/manifold set ups.

Most of the time, a carb and manifold swap will wake one up big time. RPM Airgap manifold and new carb for example. The Airgap is awesome as you dont' give up much on the top end compared to a single plane, but gain sooo much more in low end grunt over a single plane. Of course you have to consider the water you're in (Airgap = Alum.) If it's a difference of 2bbl vs. 4bbl, 4 bbl conversions or swaps is easy and cheap and well worth it.

So, for the difference in the 2 motors, if priced right, it might be a great deal. You might be able to spend a little bit of money (< $1000 easily) and get better power and efficiency out of the '97 rather than try to find the perfect pre-owned boat.

If it were a difference between big block and small block, it would be hands down no question, but between 2 differently outfitted 350's, the difference is negligible.

 

[AndersonAcres]

Teamgomez, you mentioned overseas deployment. Are you in the military?

 

[teamgomez]

Affirm on the military- spent 16 years making trees get small and landing pointy nosed grey birds on floating strips of bacon out in the middle of the ocean. Just got sent out here to Pax River where I am driving a Dell computer and in serious need of an outlet for all this pent up adrenaline...but that's another story!

I've been thinking about the carb/manifold swap as an easy fix but have not seen any first hand experience here on this board. Will be doing some homework on this one for sure...will also need to get smart on limiting factors for the aluminum manifold (I'm brackish H2O here).

'97 240 sounds like it has a chunk of the ankle biter stuff taken care of and owned by an O4 in the Natn'l Guard doing Pentagon duty. Found a '99 w/ the 250 but it also has A/C, hot water and a shower but will also cost 5k more...choices....choices.

But all this is good stuff to have the opportunity to mull over...beats wondering where my next meal will come from. Thanks guys for your thoughts.

~John

 

[comsnark]

Hmmm. . .out on the Potomac?

I assume you are looking at this boat because you are planning to overnight? If so. . then I recommend the A/C equipped boat (although. . .how hard is that to retrofit?). If you find yourself with shorepower available overnight, you will appreciate it!

Hmmm. $5k difference? About 10% price difference (give or take?). Doesn't sound that bad!

BTW: There are different 5.7L engines available for the 1997 boats. The 210hp was the standard engine, but the 250HP 5.7LX was also available (both carbed and non-carbed -> just checked the searay archive). I have a different 1997 SeaRay with 250hp 5.7LX engines.

BTW: I agree that you may be only WOT for three minutes a year, but the REAL question is what is the power difference at 3000 RPM, where you will be 90% of the time. Unfortunately. . .I can't answer that one.

I don't know what speed you should expect. I would not worry about GPH consumption. If you are worried about GPH. . .you should take up sailing!

 

[teamgomez]

210 hp a little weak...

Thanks for the thoughts- looked at the '99 and really get peeved at brokers who tell me they've got the creampuff and I show up to find exposed wiring on an aftermarket a/c unit!

Comsnark- Fully laden with fuel/water and a couple bodies, what will yours do WOT and how many mph difference do you see with fully laden vice "on fumes"? I don't know how sensitive this platform is WRT power:weight ratios. How about you cruise RPM/MPH? Yesterday's sea trial w/ 210 ponies "not doing it for me". I loaded her full of fuel and only saw 4150 RPM (I think he overpropped it w/ a 15" 17 pitch ss) and 33 mph...see chart below (pulled the ref sea ray numbers off a review on the 'net...don't know what HP the ref had).

Crossed paths with a 5.7LX model about 300 miles away that looks like I'll be making an offer on(comes w/ hatch a/c)...

 

[comsnark]

teamgomez:

We can't really compare, because I am running a bigger, heavier boat with twins. My "nominal" dry weight is 6700lbs IIRC, but I suspect that weight applies to a single engine model. One day last summer, I put about 1200lbs of people aboard, and noted about a 2mph speed penalty at cruise RPM. I see no real impact based upon fuel load ( I rarely add more than 80 gallons at a shot. . .which is about is what. . .about 500 lbs?. Overall. . that is not much for my boat.)

If you can only get 4100rpm at WOT. . .then I think you either have a bad engine, or more likely the boat is simply overpropped.

33mph would not do it for me WOT either. But WOT speed is not important. What is important is cruise speed. From your chart. . 3000 rpm is 24mph? Yeah. . .that seems a bit leisurely.

Maybe some other 240DA owners can comment? :smt100

So. . .from the spec sheet the 24DA is 4300lbs. With a 60 gallon tank. 60 gallons = 375 lbs (give or take!) 11 gallons water adds about another 100 lbs. So the liquids add about 10% to the boat weight. Hmmm. If I had to guess. . .I would say you would see a 2mph speed penalty loaded. :huh:

I would try out another boat. I suspect the biggest factor will be the prop rather than the ponies.

Hmmm. . .where did you find that performance curve? Mine I suspect is a bit wonkier than the one shown below. I can't really run between 12mph and 28mph because the boat plows badly and has unacceptable trim in that range. My boat shows more of the asymptotic approach to max than a slow/steady rise plotted in the reference curve. I imagine there is a sweet zone where RPM linearly translates to speed. . (afterall. . .a propeller is a SCREW). . .but at the high end, hydraulics will make that relationship break down. . .a create a curve similar to what you saw on seatrail (and what I see on my boat)

 

[Gunn]

Affirm on the military- spent 16 years making trees get small and landing pointy nosed grey birds on floating strips of bacon out in the middle of the ocean. Just got sent out here to Pax River where I am driving a Dell computer and in serious need of an outlet for all this pent up adrenaline...but that's another story!

Welcome to southern Maryland! There's a couple of us Pax guys that have shown up on this forum. I too mostly wander around the Potomac river, in the vicinity of St. Mary's River; St. George Island and Piney Point area. There's a lot to sightsee out there!