2018 NY tax return Results...

Here in NJ, I do not own a home and pay no property taxes. Salary unchanged, same tax situation- basically unchanged. My taxes went UP by about $1200 on $100K income as compared to 2017.

I don't see how that can happen just using the tax brackets from 2017 and 2018. In 2017 your tax bill should have been $20,800, and in 2018, with new rates, your tax bill should be $18,300.

Jaybeaux
 
I think that I have figured it out!!! All of these people who state that their taxes went up have neglected the Capital Gains that they realized due to the Trump economy. On this thread, they've only mentioned [earned] income. Now it makes sense!

Jaybeaux
 
I suspect even with the reduced tax liability, the SALT cap will hurt us some. I'll find out in the next few days.
Anytime they remove a deductible amount, we're losing something.
Example....

-My filing status is single

-I have 26,000 in potential SALT deductions but this year the limit is 10,000

-My 2018 taxable income is 150,000, my tax liability is 30,290

-All else being the same….

-In my case the Cap eliminated 16,000 in SALT deductions, but…

-If I could still deduct it all, my taxable income would be 134,000 and tax liability 26,450
 
Okay your right, But who put the SALT cap? Exactly..
Pretty much everyone in Congress that isn’t from a high tax state is in favor of it. The Republicans put it in there and voted to approve it, and had the Democrats not been throwing their obstructionist hissy fit, the ones from other than high tax states would have gone for it too. It’s about the only positive thing I’ve heard them say about the tax reform bill.
Honestly, although it is impacting me negatively, the rest of the country shouldn’t have to pick up the slack because our politicians are fiscally incompetent and corrupt and New Yorkers are too stupid to vote them out of office.
The answer is to get the hell out of NY if you can.
I think they should do away with, or cap, the mortgage interest deduction too and increase the standard deduction instead. I resent having to subsidize people with mega mortgages.
It worked out well when they eliminated the consumer interest deduction 30 years ago. The rest of us no longer have to subsidize compulsive borrowers and their credit card debt, and despite the doomsday predictions when they did that, the economy and auto industries survived it.
 
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I am all about fair to the extent I think it should be a straight flat tax.

So maybe we should be complaining about why our taxes are above the SALT limit. We all know we are overtaxed here in NY. The SALT limit just puts it in our face.

I blame the NY politicians who think we are all their personal ATMs for their give aways. I don't blame the feds for leveling it out and making this fair for all... Yes it sucks for us but now we should be looking locally to reduce waste and our taxes. Unfortunately I see the opposite happening here.

Perhaps someday in the future I will benefit from this if I choose to relocate.

-Kevin

We think about it more and more. Just waiting to see where the kids get established and settle when they graduate.
 
Anytime they remove a deductible amount, we're losing something.
Example....

-My filing status is single

-I have 26,000 in potential SALT deductions but this year the limit is 10,000

-My 2018 taxable income is 150,000, my tax liability is 30,290

-All else being the same….

-In my case the Cap eliminated 16,000 in SALT deductions, but…

-If I could still deduct it all, my taxable income would be 134,000 and tax liability 26,450

Woody, what you're missing is the reduction in tax rate in the various brackets. If those had not changed, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly. You're error is that you are applying 2018 rates on 2017 data. If you take the $134,000 (income was full SALT deduction) your 2017 tax would have been just a tick under $30,362.

RESULT: For you it is essentially a wash....(actually better by $72)

Jaybeaux
 
First, I wasn't attempting to compare to 2017. We've been primarily talking of two changes, brackets and SALT. Those are individual changes that have their own affect. I've shown the effect that CAP change made in 2018.
 
These comments in this conversation are the expected results of a convoluted taxing system that leaves those paying in unaware of the true costs.

If we had a flat tax that everyone paid into (without payroll deductions and without offsetting deductions, credits, etc) I am sure this would be a simple discussion and you would know exactly what you are paying.

Many people in America don't even know how much taxes they pay and only think the amount due (or credit back) at filing is the amount if their tax.

-Kevin
 
One more comment about this discussion.

Personally I feel you should know what you tax exposure is before the end of the when you still have an opportunity to take advantage of whatever rules are setup for this game.

I have a discussion with my accountant in October to plan out my actions prior to 12/31 instead of rolling the dice waiting for an unforeseen outcome.

Earnings and taxes are a game and like any sport with rules you need good coaches, planning and the game starts on 1/1. So start playing for the 2019 season now.

Hey, were all boaters here so set your 2019 waypoints and enjoy the journey and make the most of it.

-Kevin
 
Woody, what you're missing is the reduction in tax rate in the various brackets. If those had not changed, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly. You're error is that you are applying 2018 rates on 2017 data. If you take the $134,000 (income was full SALT deduction) your 2017 tax would have been just a tick under $30,362.

RESULT: For you it is essentially a wash....(actually better by $72)

Jaybeaux
No error, not a data issue. In fact in both example total deductions is not referenced, think of them as X+ 26,000 for 2017 and X+10,000 for 2018. You can't further reduce 2017's taxable income, the full 26,000 has already been deducted in order to arrive at the 150,000 taxable income. In both examples your seeing the value of the SALT deduction.
Example....

-my filing status is single

-my total SALT deduction is 26,000

-there is no limit on SALT deductions this year

-my 2017 taxable income is 150,000 and my tax liability is 34,982

-They're talking of putting a 10,000 cap on SALT, I'm sure glad they didn't this year because....

-I wouldn't be able to deduct the other 16,000, my taxable income would be 166,000 and tax liability 39,462
 
No error, not a data issue. In fact in both example total deductions is not referenced, think of them as X+ 26,000 for 2017 and X+10,000 for 2018. You can't further reduce 2017's taxable income, the full 26,000 has already been deducted in order to arrive at the 150,000 taxable income. In both examples your seeing the value of the SALT deduction.
Example....

-my filing status is single

-my total SALT deduction is 26,000

-there is no limit on SALT deductions this year

-my 2017 taxable income is 150,000 and my tax liability is 34,982

-They're talking of putting a 10,000 cap on SALT, I'm sure glad they didn't this year because....

-I wouldn't be able to deduct the other 16,000, my taxable income would be 166,000 and tax liability 39,462


2018 Tax Rates on $166,000 taxable income:

0 - $9525 10% $952
$9526-$38,700 12% $3,501
$38,701 - $82,500 22% $9,636
$82501 - $157500 24% $18,000
$157501 - $166,000 32% $2,720

Total Tax: $952 + $3,501 + $9,636 + $18,000 + $2,720
Total: $34,809
 
2018 Tax Rates on $166,000 taxable income:

0 - $9525 10% $952
$9526-$38,700 12% $3,501
$38,701 - $82,500 22% $9,636
$82501 - $157500 24% $18,000
$157501 - $166,000 32% $2,720

Total Tax: $952 + $3,501 + $9,636 + $18,000 + $2,720
Total: $34,809
?My taxable income was 150,000 in 2018
I can make things easier for you, 2017 1040 instructons page 90, https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/i1040gi--2017.pdf
2018 1040 instructions page 79, https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf

I think I see the confusion. Go back to post 44 you'll see the question I answered. I'm not comparing year to year.
 
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I don't know all of the specifics of my numbers but the CPA called today and we are getting back about the same as last year. Our income was probably $3000ish higher than last year and my paycheck was slightly higher this year
 
You can always tell when people are wrong when they don't offer up the proper information to answer the question, or they continually obfuscate the question.

I'm done. Math is math.
 
Woody, the data that you presestented, well, it's just not right.

The whole point is to compare 2017 to 2018.
You can always tell when people are wrong when they don't offer up the proper information to answer the question, or they continually obfuscate the question.

I'm done. Math is math.
I was responding to this post,
I suspect even with the reduced tax liability, the SALT cap will hurt us some. I'll find out in the next few days.
My post #44 illustrates in 2018, under 2018 rules, using 2018 tax tables, the effect that one change had(the change in allowable Salt deduction).
My post #51 illustrates in 2017, under 2017 rules, using 2017 tax tables, the effect that one change would have had.
It doesn't matter what year it is, if a previously allowable deduction has been eliminated or reduced you have lost something. In both my examples that is what I demonstrate. These are not examples trying to prove or test you graph thing.

Maybe this will help. In my examples, while both years have generated the same taxable income, they are otherwise not the same, they are different returns with different data. That's why I clarified that total allowable deductions in 2017 were X+26,000 and in 2018 were X+10,000. In other words, the AGI in the two examples was not the same. We really don't have to know that though, because the examples start at taxable income. Follow the rules in effect for each year and my numbers are correct.

Four times now you have told me I'm wrong. This is basic, basic stuff, if you can't follow it you'll never get your own booth at HR Block.:eek::D
 
This has been an amazing thread to follow. Three pages and no one yet has simply compared the ratio of the two 1040 line entries of "Taxable Income" and "Total Tax", from year to year.
 
It doesn't matter what year it is, if a previously allowable deduction has been eliminated or reduced you have lost something.
But that is only half of the analysis. You also gain something thru reduced tax rates. I lost my itemized deductions. But I gained a larger standard deduction and a lower tax rate. I'll end up even.
 

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