2009 270 Sundancer Engine Size ???

Discussion in 'Sport Cruisers' started by Costeveco, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. Costeveco

    Costeveco New Member

    12
    Jan 17, 2010
    1000 Islands
    2009 270 Sundancer
    2006 195 Sport
    350 Mag
    4.3 MPI 220 HP

    I'm about to complete a deal for a 2009 270 Sundancer and I'm hesitating because of the engine size.

    Specs

    Length: 28' 8"
    Beam: 8' 10"
    Dry Weight: 8, 211 lbs
    Fuel: 84 gal
    Water: 28 gal
    Holding: 28 gal

    Propulsion: 350 mag (300hp)

    The problem is I have a great deal on this boat that’s in inventory so it's not a question of ordering something larger.

    Any feedback is much appreciated.
     
  2. Sundancer

    Sundancer Active Member

    Jul 20, 2005
    Prosser, WA
    30 year old CLASSIC 300 DA, towed almost anywhere behind the Duramax Duallie Crew Cab.
    16 cyl, 700 cu. in./Alpha I's
    That's a lot of boat for a 350. But, you might be able to knock the price down substantially because of it. Take it for a test drive and bring 10 of your largest friends along to simulate a fully loaded boat and THEN make your decision!
     
  3. Costeveco

    Costeveco New Member

    12
    Jan 17, 2010
    1000 Islands
    2009 270 Sundancer
    2006 195 Sport
    350 Mag
    4.3 MPI 220 HP
    Test drive not possible, it's winter here (Ontario) and presently Sea Ray is giving a $15 000 rebate that expires at the end of February.
     
  4. Stray Cat

    Stray Cat Active Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Pool 10 Guttenberg, IA
    2006 300DA Sundancer
    350 Mags / Bravo III
    I agree with Sundancer, that is a fair amount of weight for a 350 Mag...can you find any boat tests that would support the 350 Mag? The 6.2L would be a better choice...with that much weight, the more hp /torque you can put down at the prop, the better. I'm thinking your cruise rpm will be somewhere around 3800 - 4000 rpm with the 350 Mag.
     
  5. skolbe

    skolbe Active Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    St. Louis, MO
    320 Sundancer, Mercury 310 Sport Inflatable Tohatsu 6HP
    350 Mag V-Drive - Kohler 5ecd
    I know the dealer is pressuring you to close, I think you are probably right at the edge on power. I would think a big block would be ideal in that boat. I am sure it will be okay - but if you plan to cruise with lots of folks, wait for a different boat. The 6.2 will only be marginally better.
     
  6. Sundancer

    Sundancer Active Member

    Jul 20, 2005
    Prosser, WA
    30 year old CLASSIC 300 DA, towed almost anywhere behind the Duramax Duallie Crew Cab.
    16 cyl, 700 cu. in./Alpha I's
    So make a deal on the boat contingent upon a test drive once it thaws out. If they don't want to honor it, then keep looking. A "great" deal on a boat usually comes at a cost meaning it's under powered, abused or about to break! In this economy, there are a LOT of great boats out there. I'd bet that you can find a similar boat that is one or two years old with more life left in it than you'll ever need for similar or less dollars. The deals are out there for the taking!
     
  7. Vertigo

    Vertigo New Member

    17
    Aug 28, 2009
    Charleston, SC
    270 Amberjack
    6.2MPI Bravo III Seacore
    My 270 Amberjack moves fine with 6.2 even with 100 gallons of fuel and full gear
     
  8. JV II

    JV II Active Member

    Nov 17, 2007
    RI
    Flybridge
    Volvo V-Drive
    The 6.2 would not be a big improvement over the 5.7. Moot point though, because the 270, now the 280, has 2 gas engine choices, the 5.7 or the 8.1. The 5.7 is underpowered for this boat. The 8.1 would be adequate, but certainly not a rocket ship. They should have only offered one engine choice for this boat, the 8.1, but in order to get a lower price point, the 5.7 was installed.
     
  9. Bridog

    Bridog Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Gulf Shores AL / Brick NJ
    2016 19SPX OB
    Mercury 150 4S OB
    I had an older style 260DA (2004) which is about the same size as this 270DA your looking at but it was almost 2000 lbs lighter. I had the 350 mag and found it to be only OK. Not great, but acceptible. At 8200 lbs, I would want bigger. My 2 cents. Good luck, Brian
     
  10. Spot

    Spot New Member

    302
    Jul 11, 2009
    Aloha, Oregon
    2009/280DA
    350 Mag EFI, B-3, Kohler gen, heat-AC, finally a windlass
    The under power, trailer that is not big enough, missing options that should be there, game...

    It is like a lost leader on a car lot. Get what you want and what you need, if not you will be upgrading sooner than you wanted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2010
  11. tobnpr

    tobnpr New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    New Port Richey, Florida
    1988 300 DA
    tw 350's w/ Alphas
    300 hp isn't going to push 10,000 lbs. adequately.
    Can't change physics.

    Best move you can make, is to move on...
     
  12. Dave S

    Dave S Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Upstate South Carolina
    Boatless
    Boatless
    The 2009 270 Sundancer has a top speed in excess of 40 mph with the 350 Mag. Sea Ray states that in their video and it has been verified by my dealer as well who hit a top speed of 42mph with one of the first 270DAs delivered in the country. That boat was fully loaded with all options including a generator. The hull on the new 270DA has less dead rise than on the 260DA model (which it replaced). It also has a noticable "hook" on the bottom of the hull near the transom that brings the boat up on plane considerably faster than the 260DA that it replaced and keeps it on plane at lower speeds as well. (Check the hull out yourself).

    I think all these improvements came about as a result of a lot of us 2005-2008 260DA owners complaining about dealing with some peculiar quirks of our hulls and the way the boats perform. I was told by a reliable source that all the quirks of our 260DAs are gone in the newer hull.

    In summation, you should be perfectly satisfied with the 350MAG as your power plant. If I were getting a great deal on the boat and it had a 350MAG, I wouldn't think twice about it. But ultimately you have to make that choice and a Sea Trial is the way to verify what I have said.

    Dave
     
  13. keokie

    keokie Well-Known Member

    Dec 27, 2006
    Arizona
    2002 310 Sundancer, Westerbeke 4.5 Genset
    496's, Bravo III's, 2.2:1 Gears
    I'd move on. Dave S, I respectfully disagree that the hull changes will offset the under-sized powerplant. A hook in the hull will get a boat on plane quicker, but will reduce fuel efficiency and speed. And my experience with flatter deadrise is it has a pronounced effect in reducing tenderness (at the cost of rough water comfort), but marginal effect on counteracting torque shortages.

    That boat will require WOT for a good bit to get on plane with 4 adults, will need close to 4000 rpm for a comfortable cruise, and will be lucky to hit the high 30's.

    Dave S and others are right on about the Sea Trial. But be sure the boat is full of fuel and has some passengers and gear.



    Here's another tip. Can you give us the gear ratio in the outdrive and the propeller pitch?
     
  14. skolbe

    skolbe Active Member

    Oct 3, 2006
    St. Louis, MO
    320 Sundancer, Mercury 310 Sport Inflatable Tohatsu 6HP
    350 Mag V-Drive - Kohler 5ecd
    If the dealer really wants to close you on the deal, they should fly you somewhere warm enough to Sea Trial the same boat.
     
  15. msd58

    msd58 Member

    90
    Oct 3, 2007
    Delaware
    17' whaler for one
    90hp yamaha
    Great point. Good catch.
     
  16. tdappleman

    tdappleman Active Member

    Dec 17, 2007
    Kill Devil Hills, NC
    1996 270 Sundancer
    New twin 4.3's - 235hp each with Alpha 1 Gen 2 Drives
    I have a similar sized boat (older 270) and would not want less power than I currently have. The twin 4.3's are rated at approx 200hp each and with a full load I have had to have people move up from the stern seat in order to plane. Full load in this case being full fuel (100 gallons), full water (20 in tank, 6 in hot water heater), full cooler, full fridge - this is for a full day out on the water. Once on top I can move people around with no issue and it only happens when I'm at the max.

    It's a bit uncomfortable to have to ask people to move up as they are causing too much weight at the stern.... If you go for this deal be prepared for a similar experience at times. I agree with making the deal contingent on the sea trial which I'm sure they wont want to go for as it will reveal the lack of power.
     
  17. tobnpr

    tobnpr New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    New Port Richey, Florida
    1988 300 DA
    tw 350's w/ Alphas
    Next time you read a manufacturer's "boat test", note what's actually on the boat for the test...

    Usually, it's "two POB, 1/4 fuel" on a glass flat day on the lake.

    It doesn't take much to "load up" a smaller boat. A half dozen adults, some kids, coolers, etc. quickly add THOUSANDS of pounds to a boat. The above posts are absolutely correct that you need to load that sucker up to really see what you've got in terms of reserve power aboard a boat.

    BTW- re-read the spec's on that 270...only 84 gallons of fuel? That's terrible! That boat won't even have a range of 100 miles.
     
  18. tdappleman

    tdappleman Active Member

    Dec 17, 2007
    Kill Devil Hills, NC
    1996 270 Sundancer
    New twin 4.3's - 235hp each with Alpha 1 Gen 2 Drives
    This boat test had the 6.2 MPI, 1/3 fuel and 2 POB. It had WOT of 4700 and cruise of 3700 - 3700 is 80% of WOT but seems high to me.

    Here is a quote from another boat test . Test load was not published but I'm sure it was similar to the above.

    "If you’re expecting blistering hole shot or top end, the 270 is not your boat. Its performance is sporty enough, but it’s meant primarily for relaxation and entertaining. Our rig’s power came via a 320 hp MerCruiser 6.2L MPI with the corrosion-resistant SeaCore system and a twin-prop Bravo 3 drive — an upgrade from the base 300 hp 350 Mag. "
     
  19. Dave S

    Dave S Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Upstate South Carolina
    Boatless
    Boatless
    Costeveco

    I suppose these opinions can on and on but I think only you can decide what to do. The fact is you can never have too much power for ANY boat (cubic inches cost cubic money and a bigger wallet). Nonetheless, keep in mind Sea Ray sells a lot of boats with "base" engines and their owners can only complain as much as their wallet allows them to:smt043. So if money is no object, then yes walk away from this deal and get a boat with a bigger motor. But if you like the boat and the deal then let's look at a few more facts. And I'll draw some comparisons using the 2005-2008 260DA, the majority of which were sold with the 350 MAG (based on used ones that have been on the market for the last several years ..........which I keep close tabs on all the time).

    My 260DA weighs in at 7900 pounds dry compared to the 270DA which weighs 300 pounds more. The water and fuel tanks are the same size as is the beam and overall length. Deadrise on my boat is 21 degress and deadrise on the 270DA is 19 degrees (which is the same as the 2004 and older 260DAs which are also a lot lighter than the 05-08s). I'll use my experiences with my 260DA to give you a few more facts how it runs with a "load" and what my top speed is and my fuel mileage as well. Here is a thread I started some time back showing speeds and fuel mileage I can get out of my 260DA. http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4189&highlight=Northstar As you can see in that thread I had roughly a half tank of both water and fuel and two of us were on board. I can also tell you that with eight people on board I see almost the same fuel burns at planing speeds that you can see in that thread.

    Now let's talk about performance. With a 350 MAG my boat comes on plane reasonably well with two on board. With eight people on board it only takes a few seconds longer to get on plane. And to run on plane you can not let the RPM drop below 3500. The "sweet spot" for the best MPG is between 3500 and 3900 RPM. The top speed you see in that thread was a shade over 35 MPH. I have seen 38 MPH before so lets just say the top speed is some where between 35-38.

    Would I like to have the 496 instead of my 350? No doubt about it; after all it's just money:smt100. Would the boat go faster with the 496? Yep...mid 40's is what I have heard. Would it get better fuel mileage? Not from everything I have read.

    Now on to the 270DA. It has a lot more going for it in terms of hull design from what I know and in terms of performance it runs better than mine with the base engine but I haven't experienced it for myself.

    I have given you a few more facts to consider but you have to make the choice not me. I will tell you this. I have been reasonably satisified with my 350 MAG for the way I use it and I too bought my boat at the right time back in 06 with a "smoking" deal.

    Good luck with your decision.

    Dave
     
  20. Costeveco

    Costeveco New Member

    12
    Jan 17, 2010
    1000 Islands
    2009 270 Sundancer
    2006 195 Sport
    350 Mag
    4.3 MPI 220 HP
    Hello all

    Many thanks for all the replies. Lots to think about but I will take everyone's advice into consideration. I'm thinking for our situation I would be satisfied with the performance. We are a small family of 3 (2 adults & 13 yr old) and will be boating in the 100 islands with friends who have their own boats so except for extended trips we will be traveling light.

    I've spoken to a fellow who I met here and bought the same boat, same year, same engine and funny enough same dealer and is very satisfied with the boats performance.

    Dave I will read your thread about speeds and fuel mileage later tonight.

    Other comments are welcomed....

    Thank you

    Steve
     

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