2002 sundancer 320 Trailering

While I agree to an extent that a 3/4 tons engine can pull a lot of weight slowly (16k+), the rest of the truck may not be up to the task not to mention its not exactly safe. I have seen 3/4 ton trucks at the ramps loading 35 ft center consoles blow u-joints when pulling up the ramp. 1350 joints arent up to 16k. I've seen it several times and each time its been a blown yoke on either the driveshaft, rear end or tranny output. 2 years ago I had to rebuild a friends allison where he blew the output shaft. IMO, its damn near stupid to haul that kind of weight with anything other than a dually which means a 1 ton or better truck. The sudden shift of weight from a rear tire blowout thats supporting 1600lbs of tongue weight at highway speeds could be disastrous on a SRW truck.

I've considered buying a trailer for my 340 a few times but only because I have an International or Unimog to pull it with. Neither would go more than 55 on a flat highway but my nerves wouldn't be shot making the drive from the worry of the safety of my family. SB
 
Newbie said:
While I agree to an extent that a 3/4 tons engine can pull a lot of weight slowly (16k+), the rest of the truck may not be up to the task not to mention its not exactly safe. I have seen 3/4 ton trucks at the ramps loading 35 ft center consoles blow u-joints when pulling up the ramp. 1350 joints arent up to 16k. I've seen it several times and each time its been a blown yoke on either the driveshaft, rear end or tranny output. 2 years ago I had to rebuild a friends allison where he blew the output shaft. IMO, its damn near stupid to haul that kind of weight with anything other than a dually which means a 1 ton or better truck. The sudden shift of weight from a rear tire blowout thats supporting 1600lbs of tongue weight at highway speeds could be disastrous on a SRW truck.

I've considered buying a trailer for my 340 a few times but only because I have an International or Unimog to pull it with. Neither would go more than 55 on a flat highway but my nerves wouldn't be shot making the drive from the worry of the safety of my family. SB
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As far as the running gear is concerned BOTH my 3/4 ton trucks have the identical running gear, drive shafts and trans as if it was a Duallie. What does the extra two tires have to do with pulling off the ramp with the boat. Maybe if you are breaking your driveline pulling your boat out of the water, SLOW DOWN. I've watched so many leaving like a rocket for no reason. Its not like they made a seperate transmission for a 1 ton, another for a 3/4, and another for a half ton. As for the rear wheel blowout and you can't handle it you eather were going way to fast or your weight distribution was way wrong. Also my 3/4 tons both run tires weight rated at 2,700lbs each. meaning I can safely handle 5,400 just on the rear 2 tires. 1,600lbs of toung weight. Better go back and get some more.
Besides some tractor trailers are moving to single ultra wide tires. One wide single rear wheel.
wide_base_wheels.jpg


So again why do you "NEED" a duallie?
 
Jitts - my truck has the same tranny, axles, and brakes as the ton truck dually also. I think there is a difference in the dually though, more than just blowing out a tire. I think that is a nice safety feature, but it seems to me that the wider stance and more rubber on the road would provide a much more stable towing platform. The biggest worry I have with my boat when trailering is the sway. Normally I would just put more weight on the tounge, but with surge brakes I don't like to overload the slide on the trailer. The bigger sundancer being trailered is on a fifth wheel, so that would help a lot with the sway.

My brother runs a trucking company, he said the super singles on the new trucks work well because they actually have more area on the pavement than two narrow rear wheels, so that would help with the sway too.
 
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jitts3 said:
As far as the running gear is concerned BOTH my 3/4 ton trucks have the identical running gear, drive shafts and trans as if it was a Duallie. What does the extra two tires have to do with pulling off the ramp with the boat. Maybe if you are breaking your driveline pulling your boat out of the water, SLOW DOWN. I've watched so many leaving like a rocket for no reason. Its not like they made a seperate transmission for a 1 ton, another for a 3/4, and another for a half ton. As for the rear wheel blowout and you can't handle it you eather were going way to fast or your weight distribution was way wrong. Also my 3/4 tons both run tires weight rated at 2,700lbs each. meaning I can safely handle 5,400 just on the rear 2 tires. 1,600lbs of toung weight. Better go back and get some more.
Besides some tractor trailers are moving to single ultra wide tires. One wide single rear wheel.
wide_base_wheels.jpg


So again why do you "NEED" a duallie?
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Until I lost interest in keeping up with it, the similarities of a 3/4 ton and a one ton ended with the engine and tranny. There are different trannies in 1/2 tons BTW. Most 3/4 ton trucks use smaller cooling systems, brakes, rear axles etc.. The one large difference is in the driveshaft and u-joints. I can nearly guarantee your 3/4 ton rear axle and drive shaft are not the same as those in a 1 ton dually, what kind of 3/4 ton trucks you have? A ford 1/2 ton will have 1310 series spicer joints, 3/4 ton has 1330, and 1 ton will have 1350 joints. Some older dana rears will have 1410 joints.
You got me on the super singles, I know nothing about them other than the fact that they don't compare at all to any passenger truck tire. Not trying to say a 3/4 ton can't do the job, I haul my skidsteer and tractor behind my F250 often wieghing around 15k with the trailer and all. Its not legal though and a 1 ton dually is better equipped to handle it safer and is less prone to have failures.

Just as an example, I have a friend who had a blowout on the rear of his 2500 chebby on I-95 on one of those turns that seem too sharp for an interstate highway while pulling a 35ft Contender. He was doing 60 in a 70mph zone, the truck instantly slowed and shifted weight while the trailer pushed ahead and around causing a total loss of both truck and boat. He was illegally overweight so insurance paid nothing on a $180,000 boat and $40,000 truck. Had it been a dually, that blowout would have been supported by the other tire and the wreck likely wouldn't have happened?? Do you pull with your P'built overweight without permits? I bet not, so why do it with a pickup?
SB
 
Newbie said:
He was illegally overweight so insurance paid nothing on a $180,000 boat and $40,000 truck.
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BINGO. Your truck has three different weights. A max tongue trailer weight, a max WD or 5th wheel trailer weight, and a max gross combined. Be within the limits or its your loss if insurance finds out....and they will check on it. But I guess you can look on the bright side....maybe obama will bail you out too.
 
Being overweight is not an excuse for your insurance company not to pay. We have a member here who lost his boat while on the trailer. He had no transom tie downs. Insurance paid. I know someone who got in an accident while DUI. Insurance company covered his car and the victim's.

Also, for some time 3/4 and one ton trucks have only been separated by springs, nothing more.

I have another buddy who tows a 5th wheel toy hauler with a single wheel with 2700 pounds on the pin. He has blown numerous rear tires at excessive speeds; bed damage from the carcass is all he has suffered.
 
keokie said:
Being overweight is not an excuse for your insurance company not to pay.
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It most certainly is, and I would not risk it. Will they always not pay? No. But do you really want to fight them and the OEM when you didnt follow the rules.......probably not. This is compounded when you put others around you(on the road) at risk when exceeding the printed towing guidelines.
A large majority of those towing get away no problem all the time. But the fact remains, it is a risk.
 
I agree that nobody should be pulling illegal weights. I don't and I won't. If I had a heavier boat, I would get a bigger truck, or not trailer it. The Chevy Silverado HD can tralier up to 16,300 lbs if properly equipped, combined weight of 23,500. Who is pulling anything heavier than that? Anything that heavy is too big dimension wise to even trailer, so there is no need to pull something illegally.
 
Both my trucks are older. the ford is a 75 and the chevy is a 78 running gear. The brakes on both are the same between a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton. Thats why my brake drums stick out way past my tires.
FordRearBrakes.jpg


ChevyRearBrakes.jpg


Now I'm not saying that a duallie desn't have its purpose, just may not be needed. Just I know so many who "Need" one and they tow a small boat or travel trailer a couple time per year and use the duallie to comute to work. Now if you look at the original post, I doubt the guy will be towing his 320 every weekend. I would not get the dualie just for 2 tows a year.
As far as flat tires, I don't run the super singles on the Pete. I want to be able to limp to the repair shop rather then get a road service. So I still run Duals.

As far as the wreck ond the insurance loss I wonder how muck tounge weight he had. This is where weight Distribution hitches would help.

WeightDistHitch.jpg


One should have not lost control. He might have taken the turn too fast and rolled the tire out from under the rim. This may have been due to bad tire inflation. Who really checks. I do but admittingly not before a heavy tow. Not blaming him, just looking at the possibilitys. I wasn't there.

But again, having a Powerstroke and a 60 hp chip did nothing to help this situation. Its' not about the power, its about the proper setup and vehicles ability to handle the weight.

A dually looks cool and all but nowadays one really needs to watch the cash.
 
Let's look at this for a minute. If you drive at 90MPH in a 75 MPH, and get in a wreck your are breaking the law. Insurance still pays.

What is an illeal weight? There are no laws listed in AZ requiring non-commercial operators to follow manufacturer's tow ratings that I've seen (I've looked).

Also, did you know that because surge brakes are passive, they do not meet the requirements of the law. Yet, they are issued as standard equipment on most boat trailers.

Further, the very vast majority of boaters do not use weight distributing hitches because of their poor performance with surge brakes. This puts most loads way past the rating stamped right on the hitch.

Berth Control, what year is your truck? I'm pretty certain it has a tow limit of 12,500 lbs for conventional (non-5er) with weight distribution.
 
Keokie:
All good points but remember ins companies will do ANYTHING within their power to weasel out of paying. If they bother to do the calculation and you've exceeded the GROSS weight restriction, they will probably use that against you.

Also consider any damage you do or harm you may inflict on another party. GOD FORBID the liability end is denied by your insurance company and you are sued. Now you're looking at losing assets. It's risky business. I used to tow my Crownline with a 2001 Burb, which had a max towing capacity of 8800lbs. The boat was 6200dry, the trailer was 1700lbs. I jettisoned EVERYTHING that wasnt bolted in and tried to move the boat with a near empty fuel tank (that tank was 99 gallons). But even with two people in the truck and some gear in the back of the truck, I was probably pushing the rating limit. I only did this twice a year (to my winter storage spot and then back to the marina in the spring) but it was certainly something I was not completely comfortable with.

Here in NJ, tandem axle trailers are required to have brakes on both axles, so when I bought the trailer, I ordered it with surge brakes on both axles. I'm not sure how that correlates to your statement about surge brakes being passive and therefore not in line with legal requirements. I did a LOT of smaller boat trailering and seen hundreds of boat trailers laying around various boat yards in my day and, come to think of it, have never even seen a trailer with anything BUT surge brakes.

boatlaunch20032.jpg
 
Rondds,

You're right about insurance companies. However, they are required to pay even if you break the law and run a red light. I have never seen a law that prohibits exceeding the GVWR of a vehicle. Those laws may exist, but I have looked and never found one.

Also, it is absolutely true that surge brakes do not meet trailer brake laws, yet I have never heard of any manufacturer or user being liable for using them.

Finally, your burb only had a tow rating of 5000lbs without a weight distribution hitch.
 
keokie said:
Let's look at this for a minute. If you drive at 90MPH in a 75 MPH, and get in a wreck your are breaking the law. Insurance still pays.

What is an illeal weight? There are no laws listed in AZ requiring non-commercial operators to follow manufacturer's tow ratings that I've seen (I've looked).

Also, did you know that because surge brakes are passive, they do not meet the requirements of the law. Yet, they are issued as standard equipment on most boat trailers.

Further, the very vast majority of boaters do not use weight distributing hitches because of their poor performance with surge brakes. This puts most loads way past the rating stamped right on the hitch.

Berth Control, what year is your truck? I'm pretty certain it has a tow limit of 12,500 lbs for conventional (non-5er) with weight distribution.
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Good point about the speeding. They also pay if you are drunk and smash into someone, so i guess it would make sense that they would have to pay, but it also makes sense that they would fight it.

My truck is a 2003 chevy 2500HD 4x4 w/ the diesel and allison trans. The max. trailer weight is 15,700lbs, GCWR 22,000lbs, but like you said, the little ** in the book says that it is limited to 12,000 lbs. on a bumper pull with weight distributing hitch.
 
Berth Control,

That durmax makes an admirable tow vehicle.
 
Keokie
YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!!!
http://www.vehix.com/research/speci...00000000000B&modelid=17000000000EF4&zip=07733

I spent an awful lot of time, back in those days, hanging around the Trailerboats Magazine message boards and that little factoid never came up. Nor do I recall the owner's manual making a distinction btwn weight carrying and weight distributing.

That being said, I would have been over the limit even with the weight distr hitch, but I would have at least been CLOSE.
 
Thanks, I really like it. My advice is usually to not get a big tow vehicle, but I actually tow a trailer about 90% of the time with that truck. I do heed my own advice though on the truck I run around in - it is an '08 chevy half ton, 2wd, 4.3l v-6, yes, they still make the 4.3!

I actually towed my old boat with that truck a couple times, the 230 weekender. The boat and trailer was about 6,500, and It worked fine. I laugh when guys on the site say they "need" a 1 ton dually to tow that 25 footer!
 
keokie said:
Rondds,

You're right about insurance companies. However, they are required to pay even if you break the law and run a red light. I have never seen a law that prohibits exceeding the GVWR of a vehicle. Those laws may exist, but I have looked and never found one.

Also, it is absolutely true that surge brakes do not meet trailer brake laws, yet I have never heard of any manufacturer or user being liable for using them.

Finally, your burb only had a tow rating of 5000lbs without a weight distribution hitch.
Click to expand...

Also, it is absolutely true that surge brakes do not meet trailer brake laws, yet I have never heard of any manufacturer or user being liable for using them.
This is not correct. The feds regs regarding commercial/interstate use have caused confusion. Some states did then apply this across the board. Do a Google search and you'll find that some states have now corrected this and allow surge brakes for commercial use.
 
What about all the states that have not made a correction?
 
What about all the states that have not made a correction?
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Drive around them :grin:
 
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