1985 Sundancer 270 seating

[CapTwiggy]

I would like to take the bench seat off the helm and replace it with two captain chairs which will be mounted on swivel posts bolted to the deck. Does anyone see an issue? The chairs each weigh 46 pounds so there will be between 200 and 250 pounds concentrated on two areas of the deck (the ceiling of the aft cabin). I am not concerned with total weight as I am positive the bench seat weighs much more than the 92 pounds I will be adding. I'm concerned that the weight I am removing is evenly distributed and the replacement chairs will be concentrated in two areas four feet apart (base to base). By the way, bases are 9" round 5 bolt. Thoughts?

If anyone has remodeled the interior or exterior of their 1985 270 I'd love to see pics!

 

[keokie]

I am very familiar with that boat. My father has owned one for many years. Great boat.

I can tell you while he was searching for it, we came across a few other 270's where they had done just what you described. In every case we ran the other way. This was due to several reasons.

All of them had stress cracks around the bases. This likely could have been avoided by using much larger backing plates on the underside, but not certainly as the layup of that deck is not overwhelmingly robust. We had my dad's seat out when we pulled the motors and it was pretty light. Although we did not weigh it, I doubt it was 100 pounds, and like you noted, well-distributed. A pedestal seat also will create far more in lateral forces when used in rough seas.

Second, the seat heights were all wrong. That boat was designed for a relatively low seated driving position. In each case that we looked at the pedestals put you up above the windshield rather than looking through it. It also made the steering wheel, controls, and gauges all feel much too low.

Finally, while this may be subjective, we thought each one looked like hell. Looked like someone was trying to convert a posh cruiser into a fishing boat. Kind of like off-road tires on a 911.

If you do it, I would highly recommend hanging on to the factory seat. The next owner will be likely to want it.

The 270 is a great boat. Really great boat, in my opinion. It is the largest 27 footer you will come across, and the very deep V and wide beam makes it ride and handle wonderfully, and still be very stabile at rest. Great cabin layout, and beautiful lines. And with twin 350's, they perform fantastically.

 

[CapTwiggy]

Thanks for your reply! My problem is long legs... I LOVE the boat but I feel cramped. Not enough that I'm willing to sacrifice the integrity of the boat though!
The other problem is the two flip down seats; they are very uncomfortable as they sit you straight up. Have you seen any solutions for that?

And...if I may, we are having other troubles...

1. Both side windows leak. I re-caulked them nicely with StarBoard Marine Caulk but I think it is coming in from the tracks getting filled with water and leeching in. The Starboard side leaked into the bathroom then into the aft cabin. Are they easy to pull and replace all the rubber in addition to the plexi-glass?

2. The headliner is TRASHED. The guy before me ran wires for stero/amp/speaker and just diced and sliced the headliner. Not to mention, the glue he used must have reacted to something, now there are muddy brown splotches all over it that can't be removed. Any ideas here? I want it to look nice not like it was "fixed".

3. The toilet is missing. I am not sure if there is a macerator in there somewhere or not?? Anywhere I can find information on how to hook up a new toilet? Is there one you suggest? There are two holes behind where the toilet should be but how do I even access it?

4. I would like to add air conditioning, a generator and a solar panel to keep the fridge cold while camping out. Any suggestions on where to place this equipment or what equipment to purchase is appreciated. I'm leaning toward the Jackery solar generator.

Last, I'm thinking of putting lounge cushions up front (think the long cushions for outdoor lounge chair only custom made). It's made to walk on, do you think that would hurt anything? Just cushions, no frame.

Do you have an owner's manual I can pay you to copy? I have searched and searched to no avail.

This is our first boat. I'm full of questions. I want to do this right!

THANK YOU again!! ~ John and Susie

 

[keokie]

Welcome to boating! It is awesome. And much better if you like working on things.

As I said before, you are starting with a fantastic design. But old boats need work. Fortunately, you can disassemble the vast majority of that vessel with a Phillips screwdriver. Just be mindful, it can be a bit of a puzzle to put back together. Try not to take more apart at a time then you have to, take pics, make notes, and use an ice pick to help line up screw holes.

The pack I run in has decades of experience with 80's Sea Rays in the 22-30' range. They are all basically built the same way, and are reasonable friendly to work on. We have done everything... structural, mechanical, cosmetic, etc. This includes numerous re-powers, stringer replacements, plumbing, wiring harnesses. And we have added generators, air conditioners, windlasses, pump out heads, etc.

As far as your questions:

Be sure of where the windows are leaking. Usually, it is the whole assembly, and it is best to remove and re-bed. Look for rot when the window is out. In my opinion, rot is by far the worst problem. It is very labor intensive to repair, and takes a fair amount of expertise and finesse. In the more than half a dozen sea rays we completely re-furbished, we stopped doing ones that had rot after the first one.

The headliner (we call it Monkey Fur) is a big challenge. Replacing it all is exactly what you think. Doable, but difficult and time-consuming. We had luck with some of them by using OxyClean, but we did find it pulled color out of one of them. So, try it carefully. And don't get it too wet, or the glue can fail.

For the head... If it had the built in system, the tank would still be in the bilge. If that stuff is missing, it is no real loss in my opinion. Those older systems were not nearly as good as today's vacuflushes. We have found the Marine Traveler to be a great system. It is easy to add, offers pump out capability, is comfortable to use, and is odor free if set up correctly and used properly. In the 270, it puts the seat a little high, but you are tall, so should not be a problem. Here is a link: https://www.westmarine.com/sierra-7...MIzIu17Jrf-gIV_Q6tBh209AWUEAQYASABEgJC1fD_BwE

For air conditioning, we added a ducted 12K BTU Cruise Air system to my dad's. We put the AC unit in the center under the V berth. We ran insulated ducting to a register on the port side over the dinette, then down the starboard side with a duct over the galley, one in the mid-cabin, and one in front of the mid cabin aimed into the main cabin. Even in the desert southwest, you can make that cabin very comfortable in the middle of the day, and freeze you out of it at night.

Then we installed a Westerbeke generator in the compartment in front of the bilge and next to the helm seat. That is where the factory installed the optional Onan gensets. You may have a water tank there. We removed that and had a very slightly smaller tank made to fit all the way forward on the starboard side of the bilge.

I'm not a big fan of solar on a smaller boat. I don't believe the electrical draw warrants it. You can get days worth of power off two six volt batteries wired in series for 12 volts. Put them on the same side as the gen, then put a group 31 on the other battery circuit on the starboard side. That is plenty of electrical power for everything except the AC, but you would have the gen for that. With the water tank in place and the genset, the boat will sit level at rest.

We did a number of other things on my dad's boat like a windlass, and a SwimPlatforms.com platform.

The boat is absolutely beautiful and wonderfully comfortable to vacation on at Lake Powell.

As far as the seating arrangement... The helm seat you get used to. Re-upholstering with denser foam definitely helps. Those little flip down seats are only used for tying shoes. They stay up most of the time. As does the transom seats. Leave them folded and get a couple nice folding deck chairs. Put your feet up on the flip down helm seats if you like and a nice cooler in the middle. Very comfortable and functional.

Closely examine this vessel for rot. Do you know how to do that? If it is rot free, it is definitely worth extensive time and money. Like I said, those 80's 270's are wonderful boats

 

[keokie]

Oh, another thing on the windows... Sea Ray used different ones over the years, but the ones my dad has, I believe are TaylorMade. Contact them, they may be able to help. My dad found on his, they leaked at the seam between the fixed portion and sliding portion because the drains in the tracks were plugged. He cleared the drains and re-bedded them and they have stayed totally watertight.

And cushions and laying on the deck is perfectly fine and a great place to view the stars at night.

 

[CapTwiggy]

I sooooo appreciate your time! I'll get back to you on each point as I tear into that specific area if that's ok.

Checking for rot... we are using a moisture meter and the rubber mallet method. Do you have any suggestions?

FYI we are on Lake Erie. It's been years since we've been to Lake Powell, it was beautiful.

Thanks for the swim platform info! I wanted to do that! I would like to raise it though...thoughts? My wife has a disability and the height that it is makes it difficult for my wife to board the boat.

You mentioned the addition of the generator and water tank will make the boat sit even...so I'm not crazy? Everyone at the marina assured me the tilt was normal for that boat...is it?? It drives me crazy.

Talk soon!

 

[keokie]

Yes, they usually list to starboard stock. That way, when you go to the helm seat it gets worse. Don't know what Sea Ray was thinking??

Yep, moisture meter and I like the handle of a hard screwdriver. A crisp tapping sound is good news, any kind of thud is bad. Check everywhere the has coring above and below deck.

And yes, we raised the new swim platform tight under that contour on the transom. My dad has mobility issues as well. That helped greatly. The other thing, ask Scott at Swimplatforms.com about the "P" handles for each side of the ladder. It's a huge help for getting out of the water for anyone with mobility concerns. The new, bigger, raised platform with "P" handles is my dad's favorite feature of the boat. Makes it way easier to board both from the dock and from the water.

My dad grew up boating on the Great Lakes. He did most of it with his father in a wooden 1959 30' Trojan bought new from the New York boat show.

 

[CapTwiggy]

I contacted swimplatforms for a quote and the P handles! Thank You!

I'm sure I'll be contacting you as I tear into everything. Winterizing now : )

How great to come from a family with a love of the water!!! Does he still have the boat? If not, wouldn't it be something to find it???

 

[CapTwiggy]

Hello again! The moisture meter goes off EVERYWHERE when used outside over the anti-fouling paint. The screwdriver method...I keep second guessing myself. I'm in the process of pulling all the carpet and headliner. When using the moisture meter on the inside of the bow (under Vberth) where the carpet is already removed, the meter shows no indication of moisture. Throughout the cabin where there is carpet, meter readings are 50/50.

In reading through some of the older posts someone suggested weighing the boat, another suggested using an ice pick (??) to check for rotten wood.

Where should I start? How can I safely check for rot? How deep should I go? Meaning, for example, should I open up the area under the couch and sink and explore there? How would you do it? My main concerns are the windows leaking and most recently, I began using a putty knife to remove parts of the thick bottom paint and now believe the gelcoat may have been damaged by heavy sanding.

The wood under the windows is dry and sturdy. Am I just being overly concerned? I just keep wondering where the water from the windows went and if the gelcoat I think is damaged allowed moisture in the hull.

I actually believe it was a post of yours that mentioned not replacing all the wood in your (dad's) boat and spores caused continued rot... Admittedly, that terrified me LOL.

I previously asked you about the boat listing to the starboard side which seems to be a design flaw. Do you see any issues with how the boat sits bow to stern? I ask because, according to my wife, the swim platform seems to drag in the water.