Hello all. Brand new to Club SeaRay. Just acquired from a friend a 1977 Sundander 240 as my first boat. Needs some work starting with an overheating problem when going anything over 15mph. But not at all when running on dry land. Water in oil. Everything in the lower and all things to the engine have been replaced. I know little to nothing about boats but learning fast. Need parts manuals, owners manuals, anything that will help me identify the pieces to my newly acquired toy, especially the engine and lower unit. Also, can anyone tell me what engine is in this boat. It has 250 stamped on both sides which I am guessing is the horsepower and mostly corresponded to a GM 350. Any great advice or information would be great. Thanks.
1977 240 Sundancer - Help!
- Thread starter mikewolvs
- Start date
hemibird
New Member
- Jan 24, 2010
- 96
- Boat Info
- 1982 36' Sea Ray Vanguard sportfisher, auto pilot, gps, everything
- Engines
- Twin 3208 turbo
Head gasket would be my first guess. Are your raw water cooled or fresh water cooled. Need to check heat exchanger if fresh water cooled.
That's been the consensus so far from everyone I have asked. Or a cracked head or a leak in the intake. Not sure what the difference between raw or fresh, but it gets its cooling water from the lower unit sucked in from the lake.
KRB64
Member
- Oct 12, 2006
- 785
- Boat Info
- '76 SRV195 (our first) -> moved up to
'78 240 WE (now 4 sale because ->)
'82 260 DA shared
- Engines
- A Ford 351, a couple GM 350s and a Cummins 6BT to pull it all (W250)
Sounds like you're getting introduced to boating the hard way. But a good way to learn because this is just the begiining of pay as you go...
I know of no online archive for serice manuals, etc other than buying on line. You can look up models here http://www.searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/10532/Model-Archives.aspx but no technical info.
You have raw water cooling. The other system is just like a vehicle with a "radiator" or exchanger.
I know of no online archive for serice manuals, etc other than buying on line. You can look up models here http://www.searay.com/Page.aspx/pageId/10532/Model-Archives.aspx but no technical info.
You have raw water cooling. The other system is just like a vehicle with a "radiator" or exchanger.
Spookeay
New Member
- Oct 27, 2009
- 768
- Boat Info
- HF Radio ICOM 706 Callsign W4HLK,,
The Tow Truck, 1990 F450 7.3D
- Engines
- Twin 305-Cid 228Hp Mercruiser w/Alpha 1s'
Well It doesn't matter.
You've got to pull the heads any way, If it's a intake you will be replacing that along the procedure any way.
I too would say it's a warped head or blown head gasket. What happens is the combustion pressures leaking into the cooling circulation system defeats the pressure of the water pumps. You get no flow but static fluid in your cooling jackets. As the leak gets worse it will start to blow the water out of the cooling system. This may be why it works on a hose and not in the water. #1 there is more pressure from a hose than the pumps make themselves. Also when underway, you load the engine up, this loads up the compression that in turn back blows the water from the cooling system.
You can try to just do the top end, But I would pull the engine and build it if I were you.
My experience is that a boat is much like a plane, no place to loose a engine. It can go from feeling like Paradise to a Prison in no time.:smt043
You've got to pull the heads any way, If it's a intake you will be replacing that along the procedure any way.
I too would say it's a warped head or blown head gasket. What happens is the combustion pressures leaking into the cooling circulation system defeats the pressure of the water pumps. You get no flow but static fluid in your cooling jackets. As the leak gets worse it will start to blow the water out of the cooling system. This may be why it works on a hose and not in the water. #1 there is more pressure from a hose than the pumps make themselves. Also when underway, you load the engine up, this loads up the compression that in turn back blows the water from the cooling system.
You can try to just do the top end, But I would pull the engine and build it if I were you.
My experience is that a boat is much like a plane, no place to loose a engine. It can go from feeling like Paradise to a Prison in no time.:smt043
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BonBini
New Member
Welcome to CSR. The first tool you’ll need for that boat is a service manual. I got mine from local marina. They love to sell them cause "you’ll be back!"
If it were me, I would need to know some what where the water/oil was mixing. Inspecting the spark plugs, cylinder compression test or coolant system pressure test are tasks that could be performed to help hone in on the point of failure.
Based on “overheating with water in oil” A badly blown head gasket would be my #1 prognosis. A compression test could confirm location and provide a focus point of inspection during teardown. ie; you don’t want to get the heads off and say “Oh sht this all looks good”.
BTW... When you do a head gasket repair from overheating on a V8, you do them both.
What Spook said about pulling the engine: That’s a 33 year old boat. How good is that engine? Water in the oil raises hel on lower end bearings and rusts up the overhead valve mechanisms. Inspecting the oil filter media for bearing material and rust particles could help with the engine pull option decision. Best of luck with her. …Ron
If it were me, I would need to know some what where the water/oil was mixing. Inspecting the spark plugs, cylinder compression test or coolant system pressure test are tasks that could be performed to help hone in on the point of failure.
Based on “overheating with water in oil” A badly blown head gasket would be my #1 prognosis. A compression test could confirm location and provide a focus point of inspection during teardown. ie; you don’t want to get the heads off and say “Oh sht this all looks good”.
BTW... When you do a head gasket repair from overheating on a V8, you do them both.
What Spook said about pulling the engine: That’s a 33 year old boat. How good is that engine? Water in the oil raises hel on lower end bearings and rusts up the overhead valve mechanisms. Inspecting the oil filter media for bearing material and rust particles could help with the engine pull option decision. Best of luck with her. …Ron
6500steve54
New Member
- Sep 24, 2009
- 16
- Boat Info
- 1982 SRV255 Amberjack
- Engines
- Merc 330 TR drive
Welcome, I would check the water pump in the drive first,
way easier and less expensive and would give same overheating above 1500 rpm and under load and be fine
under that. I didn't see where he said he had water in oil
in his post. Hope for the best-but be prepared for the worst. Whoops reread his post missed the water in oil my bad. Carry on.
way easier and less expensive and would give same overheating above 1500 rpm and under load and be fine
under that. I didn't see where he said he had water in oil
in his post. Hope for the best-but be prepared for the worst. Whoops reread his post missed the water in oil my bad. Carry on.
Last edited:
Thanks everyone. I had another friend this weekend more familiar with boats than i tell me to just replace the engine. By the time I'm all done pulling the engine and replacing pieces, I'll have more than the cost of a new engine into it anyway. By the way, SeaRay.com no longer carries any older model service manuals. Only brochures which don't tell you too much. I will check with my local dealer and see what he has to offer.
Ka1oxd
New Member
- Nov 19, 2009
- 1,071
- Boat Info
- 1988 Sea Ray 340 Sundancer
- Engines
- 7.4l inboards
It probably would be cheaper to buy and replace the engine. ebasicpower.com would be one place to start. Alos just because it is not listed on the Sea Ray site, drop them a line and they might have the info somewhere.
omar
New Member
My friend,
if you have to replace the engine, you may be able to rebuild the same one, in fact it is sometimes better to rebuild because of the age of the boat and the availability of parts, i had my 1976 rebuilt, it had a 351w (similar to a mustang engine) had a slight upgrade in major components and a new carburator, and man that thing purs like a kitten and loves being under load, it may take a little longer but i say rebuild the same engine.
good luck!
if you have to replace the engine, you may be able to rebuild the same one, in fact it is sometimes better to rebuild because of the age of the boat and the availability of parts, i had my 1976 rebuilt, it had a 351w (similar to a mustang engine) had a slight upgrade in major components and a new carburator, and man that thing purs like a kitten and loves being under load, it may take a little longer but i say rebuild the same engine.
good luck!
mwph
Well-Known Member
- Jul 8, 2008
- 3,229
- Boat Info
- 1998 250 DA
- Engines
- 7.4L, B3
"similar to a Mustang engine" ?..........Do tell.
omar
New Member
The block is a 351w and was maritinized by mercruiser, when i got the boat the heads were cracked and the manifolds were dust, so i tried rebuilding the heads and they were corroded beyond repair so i went to a marine wrecking yard and they gave me a set of rebuilt heads, and they are the same heads as a 1970 mustang in fact the machine shop that rebuilt the engine said they are exactly the same.
anyways i had a slightly hotter cam installed and a balanced forged crank and bore out the cylinders to .40 over a beefier oil pump and a new marine elderblock intake and carb.
the rest is all stock, (not much left though) if anybody wants pics i could post.:thumbsup:
anyways i had a slightly hotter cam installed and a balanced forged crank and bore out the cylinders to .40 over a beefier oil pump and a new marine elderblock intake and carb.
the rest is all stock, (not much left though) if anybody wants pics i could post.:thumbsup:
mwph
Well-Known Member
- Jul 8, 2008
- 3,229
- Boat Info
- 1998 250 DA
- Engines
- 7.4L, B3
I don't doubt that they are the same. Just not many Mustangs had the 351, & I was thinking that the few that did, had the 351c.
Well I figure before I replace the engine, Ill have a little fun and tear it apart first. If I don't find anything wrong, I'll just clean it up and repalce all the gaskets and attempt to put it all back together. So far I have the intake off, both valve covers off, and one exhaust manifold disconnected and moved aside. I don't see any obvious problems yet. Lot of rust and junk in the intake manifold but so far seems to be the only issue. Started to pull the heads off last night but couldn't break the bolts loose so I quit to fight another day. Maybe tonight. Hoping that I don't find cracked heads. The water pump was already replaced by the previous owner so that isnt a worry. However, when I pulled the thremostat housing assembly there doesn't appear to be a thermostat where there should be one. Is it possible that it was taken out and ran without one? Might not be looking in the right spot but according to the diagrams its not where its supposed to be. :smt013
Okay. So I got both heads off. Only broke 2 bolts, lol. Took the heads, intake manifold, and thermostat assembly to the machine shop. They did a valve job and cleaned everything up really nice. Found no obvious problems. After I had pulled the heads, I checked the block visually for anything that didn't look good and found nothing so I'm hoping everything is cool. They didn't need to mill the heads so I'm hoping that was a great sign as well.
:smt021I do have one question if anyone is still watching this thread. When they cleaned up the intake manifold, they removed and didn't return the intake manifold guard which is a thin metal plate underneath the manifold. Anyone know what purpose it serves and whether its needed or not?
:smt021I do have one question if anyone is still watching this thread. When they cleaned up the intake manifold, they removed and didn't return the intake manifold guard which is a thin metal plate underneath the manifold. Anyone know what purpose it serves and whether its needed or not?
rcurnow
New Member
If I remember right, the valley cover is also part of the intake gasket. Google 351 ford valley cover.
I've been told by an expert that the guard isn't needed. Was something they did to keep the heat off that area I guess. Having hell of time removing the two broken bolts. Nothing has worked so far. Getting ready to try and weld a nut to the tops of the bolts and get them out that way. Hopefully they don't break again under the surface of the block.