'03 with water in the bildge

[DaleM]

Captain Newbie here again!
We're considering on making an offer on a '03 280 with twin 5.0s. The boat has been sitting in the marina for some time (2 weeks or so) without being on shore power. The boat is very clean topside as well as below. During the initial look over with the broker I noticed the carpet was wet. His initial thought was the rain. I looked under the trash can to inspect the shower condensate area and noticed water all around the small box.

I looked under the bildge cover (engine area) and noticed that the narrow channel that runs down the center of the hull that supports the engines was very wet. Not running over but the wetness went up to where it appears there is a hole that would pass into the area of the cabin where the shower condensate and ac drain is.
After searching I've read that the cockpit drains can be a cause as well as the shower area. Of course water could be coming in from anywhere.

My questions are:
1: Could the boat being off shore power for so long have allowed the water build up? Is there a switch or breaker that you need to leave on when not on the boat to prevent this?
2: With two 5.0s in the rear the owner (who was there) said it sits lower and water in the bildge is common - how much is "common"? Is he blowing smoke? (He said he did get the bidlge pumps working but I didn't hang out to figure how what he did (he said he's not that "technical")). It did seem to sit lower then a friend's who has a single 8.0.
3: How common is a leak as a result of the cockpit drains from being plugged? They said they had rain.
We've looked at numerous boats and are considering moving forward with the offer/sea trail but this is eating at me and hence the reason for the post.
I came to this board because in life there's "No such thing as instant experience!" and I figure you folks would have some sound input!
Thanks!

 

[fins1up]

Unless you have experienced quite a lot of rain which would cause the bilge pump to run most of the time, not being connected to shore power for two weeks should not be a problem. That is unless the batteries are close to the end of their life. On our 2002 Sundancer 280DA, the bilge pumps are not on a switch so they can't be accidently turned off. You should have two deep cycle batteries which should be able to handle the load of the pumps. That is unless the pumps have been trying to run constantly. Does the port motor crank OK? It starts with the same batteries that run the bilge pumps. If the port cranks over OK, I would think the batteries appear to be OK and something else is going on. I should also add our boat is in a covered slip and does not get any rain on it. Due to that fact, there is "no" water in the bilge. None. I would suggest you check for other problems that may be leaking water before moving forward.

 

[Groucho]

The shower sump in this late 90's-early 2000's boats are commonly a bad design. I had a 1999 270 and never did get the shower sump-bilge to ever stay dry.

 

[DaleM]

There was a very strong front come through this past weekend that did generate a lot of rain. I do not know if the port motor cranks ok or not. Based on what you're saying you're in a covered slip there is NO water in the blidge, does that mean that if this boat is uncovered it's possible there would be water? What motors do you have and is this a factor in this?

Where does water come from in a "normal" situation?

 

[fins1up]

There was a very strong front come through this past weekend that did generate a lot of rain. I do not know if the port motor cranks ok or not. Based on what you're saying you're in a covered slip there is NO water in the blidge, does that mean that if this boat is uncovered it's possible there would be water? What motors do you have and is this a factor in this?

Where does water come from in a "normal" situation?

Our 280DA has twin 4.3's, gen set, + other stuff so it sets low in the water like all 280's similarly configured. As far as our boat, if there is water in the bilge, something is leaking.... like a hose clamp on a motor (which has happened). We just hit the 400 hour mark and this still holds true, it's dry. I can only guess if it was out in a heavy rain, without the cockpit cover or other canvas, water may make it in somewhere. There are links about leaking problems, especially around the walk through windshield that cause problems. When washing the deck over the engine hatch, it doesn't leak, but I wouldn't be surprised if a large amount of rain water would fill the track around the hatch and let some in. Hope that helps!

 

[Presentation]

Let’s start with the most likely issue, bellows. When were the bellows last changed?

BTW, DO NOT buy this boat unless you get a survey. Make sure you also get a mechanical survey that includes pulling the drives, compression check, etc.

It goes like this,…you offer $x contingent on the vessel passing a survey from someone you pay. If the offer is not accepted you walk. If accepted then you hire someone to do the survey.

Do not pay the money of a survey before you have this accepted offer or you will end up paying for survey after survey as you look at different boats.

BTW, assuming this 2003 280 Sundancer with twin 5.0’s BIII’s is loaded (windlass, camper top, more…) and in very good condition, no trailer, but does have a generator, low hours (sub 500), it’s worth max $55,000 and not a penny more.

What is their asking price?

 

[Turtlesboat]

You've actually got a couple of things going on. First you have a leak in the cabin. You also have water in the er for some reason, maybe rain, maybe a leak. If theses aren't found and taken care of, you'll then have mold. I have no water in my boat rain or shine.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Saying the boat is worth $x money without knowing anything is just crazy talk.

 

[DaleM]

Update on the water

First thanks to everyone who responded.

I talked to the broker today. He said the reason was a simple owner mistake. Essentially the current owner tied the boat up to tight/close to the dock and it is not a floating dock. The tide went out and the boat was essentially laying on the starboard side at low tide.

They say a scupper (sp) was also plugged which didn't allow the water to drain with all the rain.

Should this be a walk away? I feel I can get the boat below $55k. I have all intentions on having the survey done and I'm trying to stomach the idea of potentially walking away after dumping $700 or so into the survey. That just hurts.

Feedback appreciated!

 

[fins1up]

Re: Update on the water

First thanks to everyone who responded.

I talked to the broker today. He said the reason was a simple owner mistake. Essentially the current owner tied the boat up to tight/close to the dock and it is not a floating dock. The tide went out and the boat was essentially laying on the starboard side at low tide.

They say a scupper (sp) was also plugged which didn't allow the water to drain with all the rain.

Should this be a walk away? I feel I can get the boat below $55k. I have all intentions on having the survey done and I'm trying to stomach the idea of potentially walking away after dumping $700 or so into the survey. That just hurts.

Feedback appreciated!

First, he is a broker and if he has a financial interest in your closing the deal. Take what he says with that in mind. If the owner made the basic "mistake" and tied the boat up too tight to allow for the tide, it makes me wonder what other "basic" things he might have neglicated. That is boating 101, allow for the tide when you tie up.
It might be a great boat, but get the survey and try to get it as part of the deal. If the owner really want's to sell it, get him to split the cost, or get the broker to pay some of it from his commission. SeaRay made a lot of 280 Sundancer's. If this one isn't it, there are others out there.

 

[Turtlesboat]

If you don't feel comfortable with the boat, keep looking. Leaks happen, you catch them quick, correct it, and no damage is done. If they go on for awhile then that's where damage gets done. The only way you're going to really know is to have someone check it out that knows what to look for.

Where is the boat? Maybe a fellow 280'r here is nearby and can at least give it a glance over before deciding if you're going to move forward.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Re: Update on the water

First thanks to everyone who responded.

I talked to the broker today. He said the reason was a simple owner mistake. Essentially the current owner tied the boat up to tight/close to the dock and it is not a floating dock. The tide went out and the boat was essentially laying on the starboard side at low tide.

They say a scupper (sp) was also plugged which didn't allow the water to drain with all the rain.

Should this be a walk away? I feel I can get the boat below $55k. I have all intentions on having the survey done and I'm trying to stomach the idea of potentially walking away after dumping $700 or so into the survey. That just hurts.

Feedback appreciated!

A) there is no drain between the shower sump area and the rest of the boat. If you have water there; a) the sump box is cracked, b) one of the drains either AC or shower is loose, c) one (or more) of the portholes is leaking, or e) the bow rail fittings are leaking.

Water in ER can be from a) bellows, b) top gimbal pin seal, or c) poorly caulked engine vent covers.

FYI, A bellows / top gimbal pin replacement with parts can run you $ 3,000 per engine.

Any talk about 'scuppers' is pure sales bullsh_t because there aren't any on a 280. Also when a 280 completely grounds out at low tide, the sides of the hull do not come in contact with the mud (unlike a sailboat), so there is no way for water to enter under those conditions.

Henry

 

[Turtlesboat]

There are scuppers on a 280. They drain the channel around the ER hatch and cockpit. they exit out the back under the transom storage area. Water can enter the ER if you come off plane too quickly and the wake washes up the drains into the ER.

 

[DaleM]

Henry, thanks. What if it's tied way too tight to the dock and that causes it to list when the water is out? In other words it's tied too tight on the port and causes it to lay over? I'm not by any means pulling to trigger on this yet. I just want to know if any of this could be a one-off situation due to "mistakes".

 

[DaleM]

(Turtletone, thanks too!)

 

[Henry Boyd]

There are scuppers on a 280. They drain the channel around the ER hatch and cockpit. they exit out the back under the transom storage area. Water can enter the ER if you come off plane too quickly and the wake washes up the drains into the ER.

Absolutely right, forgot about those.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Henry, thanks. What if it's tied way too tight to the dock and that causes it to list when the water is out? In other words it's tied too tight on the port and causes it to lay over? I'm not by any means pulling to trigger on this yet. I just want to know if any of this could be a one-off situation due to "mistakes".

If it was tied to the dock, and the dock was solid, it would either lean against the dock and stay mostly upright, or away from the dock and tilt as far as the docklines would allow. That being said it would never list more than 21 degrees (the deadrise of the hull).

In the summer we get one or two cycles of negative tides and our mooring goes dry at low tide. This is no biggy as the river bottom is mud and sand. When this happens our 280 settles down on one side of the vee bottom. No water gets in. The stern drive is always up and its out of the way. The only issues I have had with this is backflushing the through hulls for engine and AC cooling. And at that its only one or the other as one is on the port, and the other the starboard side of the Vee.

Henry

 

[DaleM]

Ended up being leaking steering pins. I know this is way out of date but I thought I'd close the loop on the thread as I cleaned up my subscribed threads . Not a simple cheap fix either. Had to pull both motors and rebuild the transom assemblies.