How do I not Get Hosed by the Boatyard?

WheelsUp

WheelsUp

New Member
May 7, 2015
20
West Palm Beach
Boat Info
2006 Sundancer 400
Engines
Cummins QSB380's
We need to have some routine haul-out maintenance performed (shaft seals, cutlass bearings, etc.). However, finding a trust worthy, completely honest marine contractor in southeast Florida is like trying to find a liberal at an NRA convention. Every time I give the go ahead to have work done, my spidey-sense starts to tingle, and I just know this is not going to turn out as promised. So, the question is what can I do to protect myself? I’m very interested to hear how other owners conduct business with their boatyard so that afterwards they don’t feel as if they need crisis counseling. This is what I have come up with so far (comments/additional ideas most welcome):

· Require a detailed written service agreement describing exactly what work is to be performed.
· Stipulate that any labor overruns exceeding 15% (or maybe less) must have written authorization. I realize that labor estimates are an educated guess, but this seems to be an area that boatyards tend to exploit.
· Have the yard detail all required parts and exact costs in the quote. I know most yards put a mark up on parts, but 100% mark up (I’ve seen it) is unacceptable.
· Include a promised completion date in the service agreement, perhaps with some limited exceptions.
 
Doing your own work is a great way to avoid a beating provided that’s allowed.

If that’s not possible do all that you can to know what needs to be done and tell them what you need instead of asking.

Politely taking control is always a better starting position.
 
where in southeast florida? your profile says west palm, but some of your posts were about ft lauderdale and pompano.....if in ft lauderdale area try any of the vendors (listed on website) at harbour towne on the dania canal......if you're in PB, its worth a run north to the Hinkley yard in Stuart.......dont let the name fool you, they provide top service on all makes and types of boats - it is a great opperation....FWIW I feel your pain - ive been ripped off by 2 different vendors in s fla.....they did good work, but more $$$$ than agreed, performed work without authorization and overstated the need of replacment parts.....
 
Soulshine said:
Doing your own work is a great way to avoid a beating provided that’s allowed.

If that’s not possible do all that you can to know what needs to be done and tell them what you need instead of asking.

Politely taking control is always a better starting position.
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Good point. The scope of this work is beyond my skill level (which is pretty low). But I have tried to do my homework in order to understand the work involved.
 
Ididntdoit said:
where in southeast florida? your profile says west palm, but some of your posts were about ft lauderdale and pompano.....if in ft lauderdale area try any of the vendors (listed on website) at harbour towne on the dania canal......if you're in PB, its worth a run north to the Hinkley yard in Stuart.......dont let the name fool you, they provide top service on all makes and types of boats - it is a great opperation....FWIW I feel your pain - ive been ripped off by 2 different vendors in s fla.....they did good work, but more $$$$ than agreed, performed work without authorization and overstated the need of replacment parts.....
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We are actually in the Hypoluxo area. I hadn’t considered Hinkley. Thanks. It’s very frustrating and all too common down here to be sent a bill that is far more than what was quoted.
 
It's hard to avoid boat yard cost creep, but I now document detailed instructions on a piece of paper and hand it to them. It itemizes out everything they are to do and everything they are not to do.
 
ZZ13 said:
It's hard to avoid boat yard cost creep, but I now document detailed instructions on a piece of paper and hand it to them. It itemizes out everything they are to do and everything they are not to do.
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Agreed. The cost always seems to go up rather than down.
 
Some states such as California do not allow repair facilities to exceed a required written estimate without approval. But paperwork alone will not solve your core issue.....you have to find a yard/mechanic you can trust.

The best place to start is to talk to a lot of fellow boaters and see who they use. People who have owned boats for a long time gravitate to businesses that treat them well. I don't fault any service business for making suggestions when they notice something. I also don't fault them for making money. The financial base of their business is hourly labor rates and part mark-ups. For the routine things you are talking about.....there shouldn't be a lot of price variability between facilities.
 
I think communication is the key to controlling yard costs. Specify exactly what you want done and get a description from the yard manager of how he plans to go about it. For example, changing shaft seals requires 2 men, requires removing both props and partially removing the shafts. If you are expecting an 8 hour job but are billed 2X that, you feel like you've been screwed when the bill is actually very reasonable.

The yard I use is at my marina and I know everybody there. Their practice is to advise you in advance and get approval for anything they see that needs to be done after the work gets started that isn't on the originaal work order. This always happens, it is the nature of the beast, so cover it in advance.....i.e. approval of anything not on the original work order in advance. If you ask for prior approval, then you must remain available.

The other thing I do is to stay with the boat as much as possible while it is in the yard. There is usually something that you need to do on the boat while she is out of the water, so this is the time to do it. If I have other things going on, I at least check on progress early in the morning and again late in the day.
 
PlayDate said:
Some states such as California do not allow repair facilities to exceed a required written estimate without approval. But paperwork alone will not solve your core issue.....you have to find a yard/mechanic you can trust.

The best place to start is to talk to a lot of fellow boaters and see who they use. People who have owned boats for a long time gravitate to businesses that treat them well. I don't fault any service business for making suggestions when they notice something. I also don't fault them for making money. The financial base of their business is hourly labor rates and part mark-ups. For the routine things you are talking about.....there shouldn't be a lot of price variability between facilities.
Click to expand...

I certainly understand that they have to make a profit to stay in business. And I don't mind them recommending additional work if it is warranted. But, the boat yard at our marina is quoting 15-17 hours of labor PER SHAFT to replace the shaft lip seals (Tides shaft seals). That is $4,000 for both seals. Another yard in Pompano is quoting $1,600 for both.
 
fwebster said:
I think communication is the key to controlling yard costs. Specify exactly what you want done and get a description from the yard manager of how he plans to go about it. For example, changing shaft seals requires 2 men, requires removing both props and partially removing the shafts. If you are expecting an 8 hour job but are billed 2X that, you feel like you've been screwed when the bill is actually very reasonable.

The yard I use is at my marina and I know everybody there. Their practice is to advise you in advance and get approval for anything they see that needs to be done after the work gets started that isn't on the originaal work order. This always happens, it is the nature of the beast, so cover it in advance.....i.e. approval of anything not on the original work order in advance. If you ask for prior approval, then you must remain available.

The other thing I do is to stay with the boat as much as possible while it is in the yard. There is usually something that you need to do on the boat while she is out of the water, so this is the time to do it. If I have other things going on, I at least check on progress early in the morning and again late in the day.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the good advice. The example about the shaft seals is exactly what I'm facing(see reply to PlayDate). The manager with the high quote mentioned (and I believe him) that they themselves sometimes don't know how many hours a job like that will take until they start the work. But, why is his quote twice that of another boat yard? Maybe he's estimating high and the other yard is estimating low.
 
Shaft seals: :
remove prop
remove coupling bolts and coupling
slide shaft rearward to clear the log
R/R seal
assemble in reverse

7-8hrs on average per shaft
cutlass R/R 2-3 hrs depending
 
Corrosion is a huge unknown for any salt water yard. I've seen it take 2 men more than a day just to uncouple a v-drive when the shaft was bound in the coupler by corrosion. I've also seen it take 15 minutes when the coupler was not rusted in place.

High yard estimates are usually a product of CYA.
 
Your best bet is doing what you are doing. Get recommendations from your marina buds and on line. Thier are good shops in your area, just got to find one.
 
Here one other suggestions. Take your boat back to a Sea Ray dealer. I had a simple issue that two yards could not fix. I needed to replace a belt on my Port engine, but no one could reach it. Both yard told me I would need to cut a hole in my teak floor. I motored the boat to sea ray Marine max dealer. They gave me a quote, fixed it with no over charges.
 
searay30 said:
Here one other suggestions. Take your boat back to a Sea Ray dealer. I had a simple issue that two yards could not fix. I needed to replace a belt on my Port engine, but no one could reach it. Both yard told me I would need to cut a hole in my teak floor. I motored the boat to sea ray Marine max dealer. They gave me a quote, fixed it with no over charges.
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Interesting story. Most of the feedback I have heard on working with dealers is that they are more expensive than most other boat yards.
 
WheelsUp said:
Interesting story. Most of the feedback I have heard on working with dealers is that they are more expensive than most other boat yards.
Click to expand...
Perhaps your right, and to be honest with you this was my first experience dealing with the s dealer in a long time. But the other two yards were quoting like 1000.00 to 2000.00 dollars to replace a ninety dollar belt. Both of thier solutions included taking out the table and cutting holes in the floor to access the front of the Port engine.
Out of desperation I called Marine max, an authorized Sea Ray and Merc dealer, a stone throw from my marina. I explained to the service manager my situation and what the other yards told me. He said they were crazy, been working on sea Ray's of all types since the 70's and the job could be done. He quoted me 2 hours of labor, ( at 90 bucks an hour ) and parts. The job took two hours, and about 300.00 bucks with tax. They were proud of thier work and made a new customer out of me.
Yard vs dealer, it's all about the labor rate, experience of the mechanics and the integrity of the organizations involved.
I can't give you any solid advice, other than my own personal experiences.
Good luck , Cheers. !!!
 
searay30 said:
Perhaps your right, and to be honest with you this was my first experience dealing with the s dealer in a long time. But the other two yards were quoting like 1000.00 to 2000.00 dollars to replace a ninety dollar belt. Both of thier solutions included taking out the table and cutting holes in the floor to access the front of the Port engine.
Out of desperation I called Marine max, an authorized Sea Ray and Merc dealer, a stone throw from my marina. I explained to the service manager my situation and what the other yards told me. He said they were crazy, been working on sea Ray's of all types since the 70's and the job could be done. He quoted me 2 hours of labor, ( at 90 bucks an hour ) and parts. The job took two hours, and about 300.00 bucks with tax. They were proud of thier work and made a new customer out of me.
Yard vs dealer, it's all about the labor rate, experience of the mechanics and the integrity of the organizations involved.
I can't give you any solid advice, other than my own personal experiences.
Good luck , Cheers. !!!
Click to expand...
Glad that it worked out so well for you. I guess in certain situations manufacturer knowledge really pays off.
 
I've found a correlation between estimates and final bills. The higher estimates always seem to more closely reflect the final cost. Lower estimates always seem to come with a nasty surprise on the back-end. Lower estimates often mean the bidder doesn't know what they or doing or they are just blowing smoke. Neither leads to a good outcome.

For this reason I tend to grit my teeth and shop by reputation rather than by taking the lowest bidder approach. Then I ask for a detailed estimate which includes person hours and parts.
 
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