420/44 DB Owners Club

JoAna said:
Our Cummins 6cta 450 diamond engine has a max rpm 2600. There should be a formula that suggests max rpm for cruising. it's been suggested to me that I should just subtract 10% from max rpm of 2600 for a max cruise of 2340??
Click to expand...
For the 6CTA we all cruise at 80-85 percent. So 2200rpm +- 50 rpm. Most settle it down right on 2200
 
JoAna, I do exactly what ZZ13 does. Gives us about 23-26 mph depending on tide, wind, how heavy we're loaded, and bottom condition. The part I like the best is that usually works out to about 24 gph total fuel consumption (12 gph per side).

Jaybeaux
 
kpetry said:
Does anyone know lowest air draft that can be obtained with a 420 DB? I've looked everywhere, and even Sea Ray's specs don't show it. I'm trying to determine if it will fit under the 19' fixed bridge on the Great Loop at Chicago. I'm assuming things like the radar array and sat antenna may have to be removed, but I'm assuming the radar arch cannot be removed without major expense and headache? Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Hi, we have the same boat as you, did you determine that you can get under that fixed bridge, we have the loop in our plans and it is a question I have too.
 
Odyssey said:
Congratulations and best of luck with her. I'll be joining this 42/44 club and hope to add to the discussion regarding these boats. I've had my 44 since 2006 and have much to share with anyone needing help or advice. I do 99% of all work on my boat except the more demanding mechanical repairs and other more complicated things. Some of the work I've completed includes.....

replace hot water heater (not easy)
replace both fuel tank sending units (not easy)
replace AV system, add helm TV
replaced front salon window
installed through hull underwater lights

I'm looking forward to all the posts.

Randy
Click to expand...
Hi Randy, I have a 420 with an intermittent port side fuel reading. I have a replacement fuel sender, my question is how did you get to it, I have read that there is a panel under the port side sofa in the salon?
 
Alex F said:
There was an interesting discussion on 480DB Owners Club in regards on using generator while away from the dock. Based on the feedback we got it seems like most people run their gennies all the time when away from the dock and shut them off only upon return.

Our boats are very similar to 480DBs, but we have some vital components designed to run on dual voltage instead of just 110v or 220v, like on 480DBs and larger yachts. I wanted to hear opinions and see if anyone takes advantage of running your 12v systems and let the generator “rest”?

I’ll start with sharing my experience. As you can imagine, the temps are still mild and salon stays comfortable without having a/c-heat running. Considering the fact that I have no real need to run the genny I didn’t run it every time I left the dock for day cruises either.

After nice cruise last Sat. I got to my destination and was hanging on the hook for few hours. When it was time for lunch I fired up the genny to have all necessary equipment operational. I ran the genny for couple of hours and then shut it off. While we went on with our events the next time I fired up the genny was few ours later when it was time to cook dinner. Just like during lunch hours I ran it for couple of hours to have galley fully available, charge the batteries, heat up the water in HWH and run the entertainment center. The night temps forecast was comfortable, so once again I didn’t feel a need for the genny to run all night. So, I shut it off.

This is pretty much is very similar usage of generator how I did it on my 320DA. During the night I had the same equipment running:
- 2 Refrigerators
- Anchor light
- Night light for salon (indirect lights), guest stateroom and master stateroom. Obviously prior calling it the night we had all other lights on even after the genny was shutdown.
- All 12v breakers were on and obviously we had fresh water and head operating throughout the night.

Overall, the generator was off for about 10-11 hours. Before firing it up the following morning I checked the batteries and the reading was 11+v for one side and 12+v for another side. These were very familiar readings to what I’m used to see on my 320DA. I fired up the genny to warm up the HWH, charge the batteries and have the house ready for the breakfast gathering. Ones again, I ran it for 1-1.5hrs and shut it off until we had late lunch several hours later.

While I was in the process of upgrading and looking for my next boat I was pleasantly surprised to discover that 400/420/44DBs and DAs have dual voltage fridges. This was a good indication that unlike larger yachts we really don’t have to run our generators 24/7 while away from the dock. Thus, based on my experience from last weekend I feel that this is true and as long as the temps remain comfortable (while A/C-heating units remain off) in the salon and the staterooms we have an option of letting our gennies “rest”.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this Alex, I have had my 05 for 6 months now and will be embarking on my first full season this year. This question has vexed me for a while, but I plan to adopt a similar gen strategy to that which you have set out.
 
Walshy said:
Hi, we have the same boat as you, did you determine that you can get under that fixed bridge, we have the loop in our plans and it is a question I have too.
Click to expand...

You will have no problem with the 19' bridge on the S&S Canal. You may have a problem with the 17' bridge on the Chicago river, although when we went down the Chicago, we cleared it with 2 1/2' to spare because of low water. You could have made it too, but it's a game time call as to where the water is at the time. You will be safe taking the Cal Sag.
 
Turtlesboat said:
Ok, here's a scenario. You're on the hook sucking juice from your batteries trying to keep your Ben and Jerry's cold, you're naked because it's warm and you can't run the AC. You hear something strange. You jump out of bed to find you're dragging anchor and you're 2' from a rock wall. You run to the helm and start up the engines, but the voltage is low, so the engine cranks over slowly and then it hits a compression stroke and jams the starter and fries it. Ok, you've still got another engine but now you have even less juice in the batteries. So you run over and start your gen and let it run for an hour so you can start your other engine and avoid danger.
Click to expand...
Is it dumb to ask, when you are underway will the main engines charge the batteries, hence only requiring the genset to run when on the hook or moored without land power? You have to excuse the numbnuts question, I’m new to all of this and British...double whammy!
 
my3sons said:
You will have no problem with the 19' bridge on the S&S Canal. You may have a problem with the 17' bridge on the Chicago river, although when we went down the Chicago, we cleared it with 2 1/2' to spare because of low water. You could have made it too, but it's a game time call as to where the water is at the time. You will be safe taking the Cal Sag.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I fancy the Chicago route and so I guess it’s squeaky bum at low water.
 
First_Mate said:
Here are the numbers I measured on my boat back in January. Calm day in still water. Full fuel, full water, 5 adults aboard. RPM's and GPH (total) are per SmartCraft. Speed is per SeaRay Navigator GPS. Trim is indication of where tabs are - I trimmed for best speed at each RPM measurement. NVH = Noise/Vibration/Harshness. My props have since been reworked and balanced and some of the vibration is now less.

The M-GPH, M-MPH and M-MPG columns are for marginal - meaning the difference from the previous reading. M-MPG is a simple division of M-MPH/M-GPH which means for every extra GOH, how many more MPH do you get? This shows where your efficient speed gains come at the lowest extra fuel consumption. For example, going from 2100 to 2200 adds only 2.3 GPH to the burn but delivers 2.3 additional MPH. This is much better than going from 1200 to 1300 where an extra 1.6 GPH only nets .4 additional MPH.

It is also interesting to note that MPG doesn't change significantly from 2000 - 2300 RPM. I tend to cruise at 2200 as it is 400 below rated power and I like that margin for not overworking the engines for long runs. I also spend a lot of time at 1100 RPM as it gets me 2 MPG and we are not usually in a hurry to get anywhere anyway...

RPM GPH MPH MPG *M-GPH M-MPH M-MPG Trim NVH
600 1.3 6.8 5.23 Full Up Smooth
700 1.5 7.6 5.07 0.2 0.8 4.00 Full Up Smooth
800 2.2 8.4 3.82 0.7 0.8 1.14 Full Up Smooth
900 2.9 9.1 3.14 0.7 0.7 1.00 Full Up Vibration
1000 3.9 9.8 2.51 1.0 0.7 0.70 Full Up Smooth
1100 5.2 10.4 2.00 1.3 0.6 0.46 Full Up Smooth
1200 6.3 10.9 1.73 1.1 0.5 0.45 Full Up Smooth
1300 7.9 11.3 1.43 1.6 0.4 0.25 Full Up Smooth
1400 9.2 12.0 1.30 1.3 0.7 0.54 Full Up Smooth
1500 10.8 12.7 1.18 1.6 0.7 0.44 Full Down Smooth
1600 12.9 13.7 1.06 2.1 1.0 0.48 Full Down Slight Vib
1700 14.5 15.5 1.07 1.6 1.8 1.13 Full Down Slight Vib
1800 17.9 16.7 0.93 3.4 1.2 0.35 Full Down Slight Vib
1900 21.1 18.4 0.87 3.2 1.7 0.53 Full Down Less Vib
2000 24.3 20.5 0.84 3.2 2.1 0.66 Full Down Smooth
2100 27.2 22.3 0.82 2.9 1.8 0.62 Anywhere Smooth
2200 29.5 24.6 0.83 2.3 2.3 1.00 Middle Smooth
2300 32.2 26.7 0.83 2.7 2.1 0.78 Middle Smooth
2400 35.5 28.5 0.80 3.3 1.8 0.55 Full Up Smooth
2500 39.6 30.2 0.76 4.1 1.7 0.41 Full Up Smooth
2600 43.8 31.6 0.72 4.2 1.4 0.33 Full Up Smooth
2680 47.0 32.6 0.69 3.2 1.0 0.31 Full Up Smooth
* "M-" = Marginal or change from previous measurement

I have now edited this post about five times trying to get the chart spaced out so it is more readable. Even tried exporting from Excel as HTML. So far nothing works. Anyone have a suggestion?
Click to expand...
Great info. So in excel, select chart and save as a jpeg, or pdf. Then import to thread like any other photo. If a Mac, use the ‘grab’ function.
 
Alex F said:
Steve,

Sounds like both options (Brian's and yours) would work, but I feel more comfortable having much closer visual on the pink coming out of exhaust being in the cockpit.

I have the same idea to install the sea strainer fitting connecting to the garden hose coming from the bucket. However, I spent a lot of time in Home Depot and couldn't find anything in PVC that would fit to replace the cap. They have 2" or 3", but the cap looks like is 2.5". Where did you get threaded PVC that would fit there?

Brian,

My setup is simple, it's a plastic storage container. I drilled the hole at the bottom and installed drain fitting with a PVC valve. At the end of the valve I added fimale connection for a garden hose. You can choose any box you desire, I picked medium size that would hold about 10-15gal. I usually put no more than 5-7 gal to be on a safe side, just in case if something goes wrong I don't waste 15gal. If all is well I have enough to winterize any system, including an engine. Usually I put estimated amount depending on the system I'm winterizing. If I do fresh water I would use 3-4gal, similar for the A/C and generator, and 6-7 for each main.

I'll take a pic. next weekend when I'm on the boat.
Click to expand...
Alex, I know I am revisiting an old thread here, but I am pretty new to my 420. It’s in Florida and because I still live and work in the UK I wonder about those periods of inactivity in between visits. Would I be better flushing everything through with antifreeze?
 
QSC 500s-can someone tell me how to remove the 36mm nut and screen from the starboard transmission? I have not done it yet, but it looks like the port can be accessed with a 36mm socket and ratchet. However, does not look like this will work on the starboard side.

Thoughts, advice, and suggestions appreciated.

Thanks,
Bennett
 
JNMNL52 said:
Yes; purchased one in 2006 with my boat and installed it myself. Works as advertised. You can get access to the bottom of the swim platform from inside the bilge behind the genset. I think I spent more time measuring the exact centered position and laying out the drill holes than anything else during the install. The fiberglass swim platform has 3/4" marine plywood underneath and there is a three inch layer of insulation under the plywood. When I drilled my pilot holes I placed a long phillips screw driver in the hole then located it from inside the bilge underneath. I cleared away the insulation around the screw driver and was good to go. You need two people to fastern the mount bolts. One on the swim plarform holding the bolt and one underneath tightening the lock nuts. You might want to consider adding the extension mounts to provide more clearance between the dinghy and the transom. I added two stainless steel D rings on both ends of the swim platform and use tie down straps to keep the dinghy in place when underway. After five seasons I needed to remove some rust and repaint the entire rack. Not sure this can be avoided in a salt water environment. I am still happy with it.
Click to expand...
I have just fitted the H30 with extension and have a F-RIB tender with ePropulsion motor. It’s very light and so I hope won’t affect performance too much. When I am away from the boat, the F-RIB folds away and can be stored in the cockpit under the canvas, but is sturdy and a good tender. The motor is a great piece of kit and stores under the cockpit cushion.
 
JNMNL52 said:
FWIW the upper aft cleats would not work in my application. I needed to keep downward fore and aft tension on my dinghy to keep it from getting airborne in rough weather. With only upper cleat tension the tie down lines would draw the dinghy close to the transom and would not prevent upward (heave) movment since the cleats were higher than the dinghy. Also, drawing the dinghly close to the transom eliminates any walkway room to get access to the transom trunk hatch.

The two stainelss D rings installed on each side of the platform line up with the bow and stern of the dinghy tie down rings. I use ratcheted tie downs and this works great for keeping the dinghy secure on the Hurley. With extended Hurley davit mounts, this arrangement also provides about 12" of clearance to walk on the swim platform between the dinghy and the transom. I tailored my Hurley mounts to the beam of my dinghy so I could have this walkway clearance.

Drilling holes in the side of the swim platform through the gel coat and plywood underneath was not an issue for me. I got a good strong bite into the marine plywood with the three stainless screws on each D ring. Similar to the Hurley davit mounts, the D ring mount holes are protected with 5200 sealant.
Click to expand...
Yes, this worked for me too, I purchased the Hurley tie down package and it works a treat. I also installed rubber ‘runners’ on the chock to stop and ‘slippage’ with two shiny surfaces, that helps keep the whole set up secure.
 
Walshy said:
Great info. So in excel, select chart and save as a jpeg, or pdf. Then import to thread like any other photo. If a Mac, use the ‘grab’ function.
Click to expand...

upload_2018-4-1_9-21-43.png


Note these are not my numbers, but rather First_Mate's who has a 2004 420DB
with 480CEs. I just realized he posted these way back in 2011 and the post was resurrected!
 
Last edited:
Alex F said:
I'm not sure why you keep going back to the bow thruster side. It's 24VDC and I would just leave it alone. So this means you have only 4 batteries to work with (the two main banks).

I would be careful here adding an inverter to these banks as, IMO, the boat doesn't have adequate 12VDC power to feed your inverter. What I mean is that of course everything depends on your cruising lifestyle. If you're always plugged in to shore power and cruise on the weekends or occasional longer trip, then you might be fine with the inverter hooked up to the existing banks. However, if you're out for much longer (several days) on the hook or mooring you're running in to a problem where firing up your generator for only for 2-3hrs is simply not enough to keep your batteries charged. So, having an inverter draining more juice out of the batteries will only make the matter worse.

I'll be looking in to improving this side of the house, but preliminary I'm looking at two options:
1. Adding 3rd battery to each bank and make each main bank of 3 batteries vs. 2.
2. Adding separate bank (a pair) to feed the inverter.

While we're on the subject I'll share an observation where I think SR has a design gap when it comes to 12VDC power management. So, say you're on the hook for few days and the genny is shut off after the crew had breakfast and you're out exploring the shore/town for majority of the day. You're thinking that no big deal, you'll be back in the evening and fire up the genny and have it run for about 2-3hrs to recharge the batteries and provide juice to the "house". The problem is that every single light fixture is wired to 12V side. When the crew is back on board and now you just want to kick back, watch some TV and relax for couple of hours when it's dark out, the genny is running but the battery charger can't keep up with your demand. It's trying to give a max boost (the green light is blinking fast) to charge the batteries you drained by being out all day and now you're demanding anywhere between 20-30AMPs b/c you've got all the lighting and other 12V equipment running.

My point regarding the design gap here is that I wish that SR installed few light fixtures on the 110VAC side (I had it on my 320DA and I'm sure other models have them as well). This would help big time to balance the 12V load in similar fashion like they do with dual voltage fridges.

So, keep all this in mind when you're working on your inverter project.
Click to expand...
I swapped out every bulb on the boat to LED, which will help usage when on the hook...every little helps as they say
 
I’m looking for a bit of help/ advice. The screen on my Smartcraft System View SC5000 is giving up the ghost, it’s OK but fading and difficult to read. I have been looking for a straight replacement but they are few and far between on eBay and anyway, who is to say that the screen would be OK on that. I saw on Mercury’s forum that the series 5 Vessel View is a straight replacement, my question is has anybody any experience of this swap, is it plug and play, does it fit into the same ‘hole’ in the dash, is there anything to be done with the harness? I just don’t want to fork out $1500 plus install for a new system. Thanks in anticipation. Iain
 
Alex F said:
I was told it's PlasDECK. You can contact Traves at "Info@ttcustommarine.com" He told me he has the pattern for 400DB, which might work.

Heat - yes, with darker color like mine, the floor does get hot on the hot days. However, we don't consider it as an issue. Out of all the areas we have covered, only the swim platform gets hot, as everything else is mostly in the shade. To get rid of the heat on the swim platform we spray a bit of water, or put a towel or floating mat. But, I'd say that one or two towels is what we use the most, when we hangout on platform for a while.
Click to expand...
If you go onto PlasDecks websitehttp://www.plasdeck.com/ they have the templates for the 420 online, I have them in pdf, Happy to upload them if useful. Loads of colour combos. They send the stuff with instructions or you can get an installer. Not cheap though and they don’t talk discount either.
 
Tenacious said:
Does anyone know offhand if the Splendide in the 420 is ventless or vented? My guess is ventless but not on boat at moment. Mine is a Splendide 2000 S. Does not drain. No pump cover in lower front panel despite manufacturer arguing that there is. Tells me to clean and should be okay. Anyway, wanted to price out replacement just in case. Thanks.

Brian
Click to expand...
Brian, I have the same issue. Check the drain hose isn’t kinked. If OK the you might want to defeat the door latch, it’s a regular problem and easy to do. If either of those don’t work, them you’ll likely have to take the unit out, remove the base and check for any blockages in the pump...good luck!
 
newfreedom said:
My Smartcraft system view SC5000 display is starting to fade. The "system view" model is specific to the 420DB's that have cummins 480CE. In 2006 when Searay introduced the Quantum series cummins the display went to "vessel view" After some research I understand I will lose fuel flow function if I switch to "vessel view" model.
Has anyone sucessfully switch out their smartcraft "system view"and still maintained fuel flow? If so, I am looking for recommendations.
Also, if anyone has a old SC5000 "system view" they would like to sell please contact me at smokeymack@aol.com
Click to expand...
I just posted on this, before i read your post, did you make the switch, which vessel view (I am looking at series 5), was it plug and play, same harness, fit the opening without further cutting, etc? It would be nice to know what you did. Thanks in anticipation. Iain
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,116
Messages
1,426,377
Members
61,028
Latest member
ddbyrd329
Back
Top