Sea Rays and MAN engines

So I am wondering what is going to become of the sea rays that have Man engines in them as they age.

I have a 1996 400 DB with 3116 Cats. I love the cat engines. Mainly because they are easy to maintain and are all mechanical. I am looking at possibly upgrading to a 2005 550 sedan bridge.

However, the best I can tell, sea ray only made this boat with Man engines. Fast forward another 5-10 years and these boats begin to age and the maintenance costs becomes very costly compared to the continued devaluation of the boat. The engines require MAN certified techs that are rare in existence compared to CATS, Volvo, and Cummins.

So what happens to these great big boats? If a premise is that they move down in price to a market that will buy them, why would someone sign up for that? I know there is always someone with the money to make this discussion a non issue, but I am thinking that is the exception. I hate spending money and love the DIY aspect of what I have. That changes if I move into a boat with MAN engines.

Thus I am forced to consider an older boat with Something other than MANs, or wait for these newer boats to depreciate to get into something other than MANs. Seems that there is an era of sea rays that are in no-mans land for me (no pun intended).

Just wondering if others are wrestling with this?

The more I read on here the more I am second guessing purchasing a Man powered boat. I am currently looking at a 2011 52 Sedan Bridge that is powered by Mans. Now I know there are a lot of boats around my area (the western basin of Lake Erie) that are powered by Mans but as far as I know the only place to have them serviced is my MM dealer. ( We are fortunate to have had a long time mechanic who works there that has been around these boats for a very very long time as he is very good at what he does, I do not know of to many who have had complaints about their service.) I want to talk to him about the Mans and get his opinion now before I buy a boat with them.

Prosideus, If I were to consider another boat, I would be going the other way but that's because of the type of boats I like and what I want to do with them. Mechanical B's, C's, 3126's, 3208's and John Deere are what's in the boats I drool over. But for what you what, I wouldn't be afraid of getting into a Man motor as long as you realize that they're going to cost you a little more for parts, and you seem to know that. From what I remember of some of your posts you seem like a hands on guy and if you do all the stuff that you are capable of doing in the way of routine service, you shouldn't need a whole lot from a mechanic anyway.
Around here, not many owners let a marina work on their diesels unless it's just routine stuff like impellers and oil changes. The go-to guy runs a business out of his house and comes to the dock in an old step van full of tools that were probably his fathers and he can fix anything, although he'll be the first to tell you that if you do your part you will only need him for valve and rack adjustments. The marinas all let him work on their customers boats because they know they can't fix them and he can. We're certainly not a boating mecca, there were only 197 boats over 40 feet registered in the county I live in the last time I checked, and I'm betting that none have a Man, but if there were, that guy could fix them. I guess what I'm trying to say is that around here, you can practically count on one hand the number of diesel powered boats there are and there are basically no dealers to work on them (because of the fact there are hardly no diesels) unless you want to call cat or cummins, and if you do, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the tech will be fresh off a call on the interstate and on a boat for the first time.
Having a Cat or Cummins around here is kind of like owning a Man anywhere else except on the coast, and we are all doing just fine.

Prosideus, what about moving to a boat a few years older and getting into one with Cats or Cummins? I don't know what years they made the bigger Sedan Bridge boats without Mans. Mine is a '95, has Cat 3406C's and I love 'em.

I’m on the Chesapeake Bay and very much wanted a 58 Sedan Bridge as we loved the mid stateroom and the rest of the boat layout. Coming from a 420AC with 3126 Mechcanical Cats to the 900HP Mann’s of which I couldn’t even get to the oil dip sticks was a great concern. I love boats and knew I could justify dealing with the issues but when I got my senses back I had to walk away from the Mann’s. Couple of repair bills I saw on two boats and discussiipn I had on cost on a third eliminated me from that boat and engine. Just my two cents worth which is worth less than two pennies !

Try an early 2000’s 560DB with 3406E CATs. No mid stateroom but there were head knockers in those anyway. Great boat and good performing engines that are easy to maintain.

I'm very pleased with the performance and maintenance on my MANs - if you are looking at an '05 55DB, I would look for one with the CRM-900 option over the mechanical V-8 800's. I have a great MAN dealer in SW FL, so that's a big plus. Service parts are more expensive and they require Delvac ESP synthetic oil (at $40 a gallon), but their Common Rail System is flawless. They start immediately at any temperature with no glow plugs or intake heaters and with no smoke whatsoever. We put 250 hrs on last year with normal oil/fuel filer changes. Had one circuit board go out and it was $550 for repair. So their parts are more expensive then CATs - like Mercedes parts are more expensive than Chevrolet's. I do miss my 3126's, but 350HP is not enough for a 75,000 Lb boat. A QSM-11 tops out at 660HP, and that's not enough, so you are left with MANs/MTUs or the big CATs as you get to the requirement for 1000 HP and above.

Gimme Time made a comment on the dipsticks - they are not a problem to reach - until you get above a 44" waistline - just sayin'. Outboard sides of the engines are very tight, but that is true on a lot of boats.

carterchapman said:

I'm very pleased with the performance and maintenance on my MANs - if you are looking at an '05 55DB, I would look for one with the CRM-900 option over the mechanical V-8 800's. I have a great MAN dealer in SW FL, so that's a big plus. Service parts are more expensive and they require Delvac ESP synthetic oil (at $40 a gallon), but their Common Rail System is flawless. They start immediately at any temperature with no glow plugs or intake heaters and with no smoke whatsoever. We put 250 hrs on last year with normal oil/fuel filer changes. Had one circuit board go out and it was $550 for repair. So their parts are more expensive then CATs - like Mercedes parts are more expensive than Chevrolet's. I do miss my 3126's, but 350HP is not enough for a 75,000 Lb boat. A QSM-11 tops out at 660HP, and that's not enough, so you are left with MANs/MTUs or the big CATs as you get to the requirement for 1000 HP and above.

Gimme Time made a comment on the dipsticks - they are not a problem to reach - until you get above a 44" waistline - just sayin'. Outboard sides of the engines are very tight, but that is true on a lot of boats.

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Just for your information I’m a 34” waist line at 180lbs and say it’s a bitvh to get to is an understatement. I see did one Boat that some one had cudtmise so piping to improve access but I conserally doubt that was a factory approved routing. If you can get to them and preform your preventative maintenance and daily checks more power to you but I decide to pass on the trade offs

GT - I wish I was 34" waist!! I'm growing into my 38's at 200lbs and get in their just fine...but those 16 liter V-8s are wide for sure...

Gimme Time said:

I’m on the Chesapeake Bay and very much wanted a 58 Sedan Bridge as we loved the mid stateroom and the rest of the boat layout. Coming from a 420AC with 3126 Mechcanical Cats to the 900HP Mann’s of which I couldn’t even get to the oil dip sticks was a great concern. I love boats and knew I could justify dealing with the issues but when I got my senses back I had to walk away from the Mann’s. Couple of repair bills I saw on two boats and discussiipn I had on cost on a third eliminated me from that boat and engine. Just my two cents worth which is worth less than two pennies !

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John, don't sell yourself short on that two cents. Not sure why you thought getting to the dipsticks were an issue. Accessing mine is no more difficult than those on my 52 with the QSM-11's. I check my engine oil before each start and I've never had an issue....and I'm not a 34"waist....

Prosideus said:

So I am wondering what is going to become of the sea rays that have Man engines in them as they age.

I have a 1996 400 DB with 3116 Cats. I love the cat engines. Mainly because they are easy to maintain and are all mechanical. I am looking at possibly upgrading to a 2005 550 sedan bridge.

However, the best I can tell, sea ray only made this boat with Man engines. Fast forward another 5-10 years and these boats begin to age and the maintenance costs becomes very costly compared to the continued devaluation of the boat. The engines require MAN certified techs that are rare in existence compared to CATS, Volvo, and Cummins.

So what happens to these great big boats? If a premise is that they move down in price to a market that will buy them, why would someone sign up for that? I know there is always someone with the money to make this discussion a non issue, but I am thinking that is the exception. I hate spending money and love the DIY aspect of what I have. That changes if I move into a boat with MAN engines.

Thus I am forced to consider an older boat with Something other than MANs, or wait for these newer boats to depreciate to get into something other than MANs. Seems that there is an era of sea rays that are in no-mans land for me (no pun intended).

Just wondering if others are wrestling with this?

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This is an interesting discussion, as is the one about going to an older Sea Ray of this size to get into a CAT powered boat. For those of you around big Sea Rays back to the late 90's early 2000's, you'll recall Sea Ray used CAT and MAN on their biggest models and then went solely to MAN in late 2004 until after 2014. My understanding is there were reliability issues with the older CAT's that have been enumerated elsewhere on CSR, so no need to repeat. Of note, I have heard from a VERY reliable source that Sea Ray has built some L590's with MANs instead of the triple Cummins QSCs. I'd be a lot more afraid of running QSCs at 600hp than I ever would be of owning MANs.

I'm not sure why there are common mis-perceptions regarding MAN engines, though I hear many of them from boaters who've never owned MANs themselves. Yes, parts are more expensive than those for American made CAT and Cummins engines, not so much when compared to VOLVO. I am sure that in certain parts of the country MAN service is spotty, but where I do my boating I have access to three different factory certified service providers. I'm also not sure where the idea that only a MAN certified mechanic can work on MAN engines. I do much of my own routine maintenance (oil changes, oil and fuel filter changes, belts, pumps, etc.). If you can do it yourself on a CAT or Cummins, you can do it yourself on MAN's. Even for some less than routine maintenance I don't need a MAN guy I just need a good diesel mechanic. Also, for the MAN CRM's, there is no magical 1000 hour service, the first big service is at two years or 400 hours. When you hear someone say the 1,000 hour service has been done they either don't know the service schedule published by MAN or they don't know what they are talking about. The biggest expense is the heat exchanger maintenance and that is rather pricey ($18-20k).

Other than the 800 hp models used in early 2004, all MAN's since then are Common Rail fully electronic engines. Because of that, and just like a fully electronic CAT or Cummins, you are pretty much forced into using a factory equipped service provider. Ask anyone in the Northeast how much they like dealing with the local CAT (HO P) or Cummins service companies. They aren't cheap and they are hard to get.

Sea Ray used CRM MANs in the 52 DB, 550/58 DB, 55/58 DA and 60/610 DA. The MAN V-8 and V-10 engines are the smoothest I've ever owned and I wouldn't shy away from a boat with them. If you're buying a 50+ foot boat the cost of engine maintenance won't be your biggest annual expense. There's a reason that top of the line yacht builders like Viking and Princess use MAN engines....because they are top of the line engines. Happy to answer any questions you may have.....and that's my $.02

bmac, good post. Agree with your statement about running MANS vs QSC600.

I was waiting for u to chime in Bryan. : )

rob