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ttmott

ttmott

PhD in OCD
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TECHNICAL Contributor
Apr 3, 2012
8,120
Space Coast Florida
Boat Info
2006 52 Sedan Bridge
Engines
Cummins QSM11

One of the issues with the pre-2003 sea ray yachts is the lack of instrumentation for the drive train. For example, the boats with Hurth 800, ZF80, or ZF85 series gears have no instrumentation installed for oil pressure and oil temperature (pre 2002 I believe). And, if the oil filter access plate on the gear is not completely sealed the hydraulic system can aspirate air and consequently operate at greatly reduced pressures (those who have changed the oil filter know that these plates are not the best configuration). Reduced oil pressure will cause slippage in the clutches and reduced lubrication for the bearings and gears. Clutches that are slipping are creating tremendous heat and further reducing the lubrication capability of the oil and the life of the gear will suffer. There is a sordid history of these gears failing and having a couple of them apart I’m fully convinced most are a result of issues with the pressure and temperature of the ATF used for the hydraulics and lubrication.
So I decided to instrument my boat with pressure and temperature read-outs for the gear oil. To start with I decided to have this instrumentation compatible with the boat’s electronics evolution plan to a full NMEA 2000 compliant update to a Garmin based system. Phase I of the upgrade was to add the NMEA 2000 backbone, two MFD’s, new sounders, transmission pressure and temperature instruments, and converters for the engine’s and transmission analog outputs to NMEA 2000 compliant CANbus data streams. The major components for the project are:
  • 2 each Garmin GMI 20 Multi-Function Displays (note you cannot use the GMI 10 MFD as it will not recognize any transmission related data)
    2 each Autometer oil temperature thermistors
    2 each Dwyer pressure transducers, 0-500 PSIG and 0-5V output
    2 each Noland RS11 NMEA 2000 converters
    1 each Airmar DT800 sounder
    1 each Airmar B60 sounder (this was for Phase II but I installed while the boat was out of the water)
    1 each Maretron NMEA 2000 backbone and various drop cables and connectors.
    1 each crap-load of wire, terminals, and wire-ties
The end result exceeded my expectations and all of the parameters are displayed with alarms; see the attached pictures of the completed installation. There are a couple of things that are underwhelming however:
  • Temperature thermistors (engine temperature and the ones I used for the transmission temperature) do not have linear outputs. The RS11 converters can only deal with a linear algorithm. So I had to plot the thermistor curves then lay a linear line across the “important” part of the curve (see the below graph) and program this line into the RS11. So when the engine is cold the temperature reads -426 Deg F but quickly becomes accurate at around 150 degs F. Noland Engineering said they will release a firmware update that can deal with non-linear sensors; looking forward to that….

    Garmin is not very detailed in the limitations of their displays. For example, in their literature they state compatibility to the NMEA 2000 PGN’s for transmission pressure however they limit the gauge range to 200 PSIG even though most gears operate well in excess of 200 psig. The patch is they have a digital readout below the gauge in full screen mode that is actual; the gauge needle is pegged all of the time. I contacted Garmin but they have yet to respond….

Anyhow – below are wiring schematic, thermistor correction graph, and pictures of the completed installation…








 
Very impressive.
 
Wow! Is this a replacement of or an addition to the current setup? Don't mean to be rude, but how many boat bucks and how difficult was the fit?
 
dpmulvey said:
Wow! Is this a replacement of or an addition to the current setup? Don't mean to be rude, but how many boat bucks and how difficult was the fit?
Click to expand...

This is the first phase to replace all of the boat's NAV systems and to add instrumentation for the gears. I think in total to include the new sounders around $2300; the Garmin MFD's alone were $1100 of that. Difficulty varies depending upon ones capability but most important is going in with a plan and drawings. I have to say when the helm was torn apart it looked imposing but once I gutted the old and unused stuff it unfolded quite easily. As part if this phase I got rid of the original chart plotter and tridata then cleaned and harnessed the remaining and new wiring. Understanding the programming for the converters and MFD's is not difficult but it's those limitations to work around that takes time and some ingenuity. I failed to mention but one of the primary reasons I chose the Noland converters is they can utilize the existing sensors on the engines; simply connect to the sensor terminal on the back of the existing gauges then program in the sensor output voltage with respect to actual pressure or temperature for the span and voila you have an output.
The next phase is adding a Garmin GPSMAP 7212 and the GSD24 sounder black box. Then the final phase is a new radar and autopilot.

i should note as an edit that all of this can be done with one MFD or use your existing NMEA2000 compliant device provided it can display the varied parameters (PGN's). Both of the MFD on this setup are configured exactly the same this simply adds the capability to view more pages the same time.
 
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I, too, am considering an upgrade to NMEA 2000 to provide engine data from my 3116s to my Garmin 4202. Have you been happy with the NoLand product? Has it been reliable?

Thank you for your insight!
 
Great job... I'm impressed you were able to do that yourself. Electronics is not my forte! As an aside, I wouldn't even know what constitutes a normal PSI for my transmissions... Should it vary with RPM or remain constant?
 
The Noland converters have been problem free and the Software seems very stable (no glitches). The only criticism is Noland Engineering said they would have a non-linear algorithm available so the temperature thermistors can be tracked as a firmware update over six months ago but alas nothing yet. Also the bit resolution is rather coarse; but I don't know if that is an issue with the Garmin GMI 20's, the NEMA 2000 network, or the Noland units; the engine RPM, for example, toggles in 50 RPM increments. All minor stuff but still an annoyance to someone like me.....
 
Boater_Rob said:
Great job... I'm impressed you were able to do that yourself. Electronics is not my forte! As an aside, I wouldn't even know what constitutes a normal PSI for my transmissions... Should it vary with RPM or remain constant?
Click to expand...
The operating pressures are given in the service manuals and are given in psi over rpm; they do vary based upon RPM. Note that the Hurth gears operate at a slightly lower pressure than the ZF units. My port gear was replaced with a ZF85 from a Hurth 800 and it's operating pressure is higher than the starboard Hurth as alluded in the manuals.
 
WOW is right! Awesome job ttmott!

I take it your an engineer of sorts, very nice. Let me ask you this. Would you replace your analogue gauges with this system? Or did you actually do that already, I am assuming this is in addition too?

As you noticed I am starting this project myself and am also considering the R11 as well. I plan on starting off with the tanks and tabs, and then add the Genset with a dedicated R11. Thank you for pointing out the transmission data not being present in the GMI 10, it makes my decision to go with the GMI 20 much easier.

Have tried out the Wifi app that read N2K data? Maretron makes a bridger to Wifi and/or Ethernet. I am considering this as a phase three.

Again great job! and very nice post.
 
To make the installation easiest you will need the existing gauges to provide a positive potential biased with the sensor's variable ground. On the Noland converters all but two of the inputs (A1 and A2) require a voltage bias which the existing gauges provide. A2 and A2 have a software selectable switch to provide the bias. Without a potential to measure against all that would be seen is ground as most sensors provide a ground resistance. You could externally provide the voltage bias with a little extra work. Noland, I understand, was going to update their hardware to provide the bias on all of the inputs. Notice that I have the transmission temperature thermister on A1 or A2 because there is no gauge to provide power. Regarding a genset, I don't know of a NEMA 2000 PGN identified for generator outputs that the Garmin displays will accept. Garmin does not allow all of the NEMA possibilities; that was a surprise to me and they are not clear at all in the literature.
 
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Very interesting setup, quite impressive. Have you made any progress on the issues?

--RPM Resolution (finer than 50RPM)
--Linear vs non-Linear temperature
--Garmin 200 PSIG limit
 
PMC said:
Very interesting setup, quite impressive. Have you made any progress on the issues?

--RPM Resolution (finer than 50RPM)
--Linear vs non-Linear temperature
--Garmin 200 PSIG limit
Click to expand...

Not really, my time has been consumed the last six or so months with other business. However, before the summer trip to the Bahamas the next level of upgrades will be done and I'll take another look at the shortfalls.
 
ttmott, Any updates since this install, lessons learned or anything?
Do you think you could have tapped off the existing Sea Ray analog system monitoring module in the bilge?
Added any alarms or connected bilge sensors?

My Sea Ray System monitor with the red LEDs stopped working, so thinking about a replacement.

Thanks!
 
I too looked at the Noland. However, it appears to me that they both do the same thing. The difference being the Albacombi appears to have more input options, instruments and tank gauges, and output options, alarms. I don't know if I will even use them all. I am in the spending mood this week. I just bought four seablaze X lights and this project is next. Appreciate the input and look forward to more.
 
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