Brunswick selling off Sea Ray brand

Personally I could never justify the new cost of a larger cruiser in comparison to buying one used after the initial depreciation drop. If I had unlimited funds then perhaps but not at my current place in life. The boat shows have always given insight as to trends, improvements and what I might be able to look into buying used down the road. They also show me upgrades that I can perform on my own boats. Now, in the past I have purchased smaller boats new but for a whole lot less money.

This seems to be the current market environment and manufactures need to adapt. Those that adapt will take advantage and succeed those blindly heading into the future based on the past will be facing problems. I have been very happy Sea Ray customer - recommend them whenever I get a chance - and commend their customer support. I hope they adapt and succeed.

-Kevin
 
Let's not over complicate this. The <40' powerboat Market has been trending, and will continue to trend, to outboard power. The limited >40' market will be twin pod or single screw diesel. Brunswick knows this very well.

Sea Ray has had offerings, but isn't really a player in any of the 3 propulsion markets above. When I told my Sea Ray rep at a boat show a few years ago my 280DA would be my last I/O boat he seemed surprised, so I guess the dealers had their heads in the sand too. Other good I/O brands like Chaparral and Regal will have the same challenges.
 
Well the last few posters seem to have caught on to my financial plan and I'm happy for them.

My plan has always been:
1. Don't buy new. Buy a good quality, used (car/truck/boat/etc) and keep it for a long time.
2. Buy quality products that will last. I own (all paid for) a 1998 Explorer, a 2005 BMW, a 2012 GMC. I maintain them well and expect to get many more years' use out of each of them.
My boats are a 1995 Sea Ray, a 1981 Boston Whaler and a 2010 Boston Whaler. Same story as with the cars--take good care of them and they will last.

When you own your cars/trucks/boats outright they are much cheaper to operate than things you are making payments on. Taxes, insurance, licensing, gas/diesel, etc is all you are paying for.

Now I'm not saying that we should put off buying an expensive toy until you can afford to pay cash for it. If that were the case many could not afford the nice toys we covet. But buy them AFTER the depreciation curve has slowed. Let someone else take the big depreciation hits....the sound of my diesels is just a bit sweeter knowing that the original owner took the several hundred thousand dollar hit on the depreciation.
 
Ok - Sounds Good! Any Nays - Are we all in agreement now! I am certain no-one could see a problem with these facts!


Oboatcare or the Affordable Boat Act?

-80% of the people "will pay little or nothing" for a their new boat
-You can keep your current dockage
-All boats over 10 years old will be recycled by the Boat Death Panel (BDP).

-Authorized Plans
Bronze----Bayliner
Silver----Meridan
Gold-----Formula
Platinum---Sea Ray:cool:
 
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I don't know where to start....Perhaps AAD will take his issues to another thread....That said, I agree with a lot of what he's posted. Though I really don't want to derail the thread. I only ask him what is his solution? Raise the min. wage? Sorry, but the min. wage is not intended to be a living wage. It's a starter wage to prove your worth to a company...Go prove your worth...Should you tax the rich? Who are the rich? What income amount is rich? What percentage more? 40%? 50%? 60%...And, how is that going to solve your issue anyway? We don't balance any budget.....The money that the rich are taxed would go into a system of glut and waste....It's better, IMO, not to over tax the rich so they spend, spend, spend on things that create jobs...(pay your salary) OR am I missing something you would like to point out...While you point out some issues that perhaps life isn't fair, I have news for you, it wasn't fair for any generation...So I'm not knocking you...But, my suggestion is to quit being discouraged and blaming another generation and just work your way to success....My guess would be (you might be surprised....) that many people in previous generations would trade with you and take their chances with success today....You need to appreciate the lack of barriers and technological advances today to make people even more successful....Am I saying that it's going to be an easy ride or everyone will prosper? No....Only the lucky / hard working ones will....Same as every other generation... Good luck...

Now, back to the issue at hand... If anyone get's their hands on a copy of the financials, I'd love to see them. Off the cuff, I'd say if SR is working at a low overall margin, I'd point the finger at upper management....Someone is going to need to make the difficult decisions and make cuts necessary to compete in this market...Further, I would think large cuts to the MSRPs are in order...SR has an excellent brand...I would hate to see it squandered...
 
In my opinion there are several factors that play into such a decision.

A portion of my portfolio moves in and out of the recreational market and right now I do not invest into it; I believe it is saturated and across the board recreation will be dipping. 2018 will probably see a significant decline in purchasing of RV's (boats, trailers, and motorhomes, etc.); my thoughts....

The second issue with the brand is their retailer (MarineMax) does not represent Sea Ray as a priority. When you look at MarineMax's national ad campaign, Sea Ray is thinly represented. When you walk into a MarineMax store and look at yacht level boats they tend to direct the customer to Azimut; probably because their margin is greater with Azimut. This is a difficult situation for Brunswick but they need to expand their dealer sources.

The third issue is Brunswick's mandate to depend on Brunswick's products to outfit the Sea Ray brand such as Mercury; I'm not saying the Mercury is a poor choice but it comes down to the purchaser and what they desire. You will not see a Yamaha, Evinrude, or Suzuki outboard engine on a Sea Ray....

The fourth issue is supplier availability. Replacement parts for the boats need to be sourced from the dealer (MarineMax). I can see this for the first couple of years or through the warrantee period but after that Sea Ray should release the manufacturers so parts can be sourced anywhere (TaylorMade comes to mind).

The last issue I see is Sea Ray follows trend rather than creating trend. A market leader commands the market simply due to their capability to create the market. The "European" style for example is copy-cat and while not unattractive to many is not an innovation that markets the brand as a leader.

With all of that said, I believe there is good potential in the company and brand for an investor as a long term outlook. Sales will decline in 2018/2019 so the company needs to down-size now as soon as backlog reduces. Design needs some autonomy to really get creative. Sea Ray needs to move to efficiency and fuel economy which will require some retooling for light weight hulls, electrical innovation, and environmental optimization. Much of the cost in modern boats goes into the complex systems integration which may serve better as an option rather than the base configuration. The brand needs to open up options in power and navigation rather be subservient to the mother company's product line.
 
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Chris R
The Seattle boat show had some good deals on new boats including SeaRay in 2015. In 2009 they had even better deals. No idea what 2018 will be like. Boats sell for what people will pay. As a new car sales person said we always find some to sit in our cars and drive them off the lot. Good luck this year. Always fun to look.
 
Well the last few posters seem to have caught on to my financial plan and I'm happy for them.

My plan has always been:
1. Don't buy new. Buy a good quality, used (car/truck/boat/etc) and keep it for a long time.
2. Buy quality products that will last. I own (all paid for) a 1998 Explorer, a 2005 BMW, a 2012 GMC. I maintain them well and expect to get many more years' use out of each of them.
My boats are a 1995 Sea Ray, a 1981 Boston Whaler and a 2010 Boston Whaler. Same story as with the cars--take good care of them and they will last.

When you own your cars/trucks/boats outright they are much cheaper to operate than things you are making payments on. Taxes, insurance, licensing, gas/diesel, etc is all you are paying for.

Now I'm not saying that we should put off buying an expensive toy until you can afford to pay cash for it. If that were the case many could not afford the nice toys we covet. But buy them AFTER the depreciation curve has slowed. Let someone else take the big depreciation hits....the sound of my diesels is just a bit sweeter knowing that the original owner took the several hundred thousand dollar hit on the depreciation.

I think the general public underestimates this mentality within the Gen-X and Millenial generation. We grew up watching our parents' generation over-purchasing homes, buying new cars every 2yrs, lavishing their children with unearned gifts, and now struggling to afford their lifestyles in retirement. Most of my friends (born 1980) under-purchased our homes, buy cars with cash, pay off our credit cards every month, and would NEVER borrow money to buy a toy. This is why new boats and cars aren't resonating with younger buyers; they require debt. We despise debt.
 
Good for you. You are statistically an outlier. Data says MOST people do not have your luck. Data says the middle class is in decline. Data says wages are not keeping up with cost of housing, education, and healthcare. Data says I am right, and you're denial is incorrect.
What does taxing the rich solve? And more important what is your definition of rich? I suppose taxing the "rich" would be a death nail to boat companies. You do know the top 10% pay 90% of the taxes.
 
Soooo I'm noticing a Troll pattern ......why do we have a number of new members who are only posting on this thread? And why do they post alternative pro/con views that have nothing to do with boating?

It's like finding rats who have made their way onto your boat with the intention of making it their new home.
 
Soooo I'm noticing a Troll pattern ......why do we have a number of new members who are only posting on this thread? And why do they post alternative pro/con views that have nothing to do with boating?

It's like finding rats who have made their way onto your boat with the intention of making it their new home.
I'm an owner of a Brunswick boat, this is general discussion......
 
Soooo I'm noticing a Troll pattern ......why do we have a number of new members who are only posting on this thread? And why do they post alternative pro/con views that have nothing to do with boating?

It's like finding rats who have made their way onto your boat with the intention of making it their new home.

Welcome to the new age of information and disinformation. It seems a certain segment of our population can't deal in reality. And since their beloved MSM is no longer a valid fourth estate, they have resorted to getting on forums and any internet source they can find in an attempt to promote their agenda.

This is also happening on other sites as well.
 
A lot going on this thread. I just stopped by to see how people with Sea Rays thought about the news.

I don't think ADD's delivery was civil, and it does appear he joined to throw a monkey wrench in to the gears of the forum.

With that said, some of his statements and facts have merit and possibly contributed to the decline of sales of recreational boats, and I say this as a Boomer.
 
But... He got 8 pages of discussions... How many search engine hits on his info graphics..

CSR - just got used...

Mark
K
 
Maybe it is just me....but you have to get rid of the rats.... Delete the infographics from the thread when they post in the wrong section. The other sites I post on have active moderators who hand out suspensions and delete posts to keep the vermin out.

Once the activists see that their stupidity, ignorance and inflammatory rhetoric is being curtailed....they will move on. I have seen enough of this to know that a number of small companies specialize in the "creating awareness" space and they are actively seeking sites to promote their agenda.
 
A lot going on this thread. I just stopped by to see how people with Sea Rays thought about the news.

I don't think ADD's delivery was civil, and it does appear he joined to throw a monkey wrench in to the gears of the forum.

With that said, some of his statements and facts have merit and possibly contributed to the decline of sales of recreational boats, and I say this as a Boomer.

Welcome to the Club Sea Ray. It is a great resource.

Do not take offense at my comments regarding new posters. You are a Silver Sponsor which indicates that care about this site. These other folks don't. They just make money by polluting helpful sites with their agenda.
 

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