Sudden development of loud knock in Cummins 8.3

Nope, all out of pocket. Just part of the risk we all take operating these diesels.
Too bad Cummins had such issues with the 480CE engine, I'm glad I found my 06 44DB with the 500HD series engine, apparently Cummins beefed up the heads and have not had dropped seat issues.
 
Carpediem44DB said:
Going back together this week, having entire bottom end rebuilt since it is out if the boat and new heads on both engines. $42000 by the time he's back in the water and then probably 3 days of deep cleaning after being in the boat yard in the middle of Delta farm land during harvest season!
Ouch!
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Just out of curiosity, what did his raw water system look like? Any blockage or scaling in his, aftercooler, heat exchanger, fuel cooler or trans cooler?
 
Keith Zibilich said:
Just out of curiosity, what did his raw water system look like? Any blockage or scaling in his, aftercooler, heat exchanger, fuel cooler or trans cooler?
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Raw water system looked good. As far as I know there was no mention of cleaning or service needed of the raw water system. The boat lived its life in FW on Lake Union in Seattle until coming to the brackish water of the North Bay here in CA.
 
SeaRenity is back in the water! Some final adjustments and engine runs tomorrow and then the fifty mile cruise home on Saturday. In the end they replaced one cylinder liner, piston and rod, head and turbo in Strbrd engine and replaced head on port engine as a precautionary move. Expensive summer but there are two more months of great boating left in the season here in NorCal we are looking forward to seeing him on the cruise outs that are left on the schedule.
 
douglee25 said:
Did that $42k go up?
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He actually has not received a bill from Cummins. They repaired the one engine at their shop and made a couple of thirty mile trips to the boat to replace the head on the port engine and never so much as asked for a deposit! Said he would receive a bill. He suspects that the bill will be lower as the original quote was to replace all cylinder liners, pistons and Rods yet they just replaced the one due to hours and condition. I’ll let you know what the final bill was for yuks.
 
Before I bought my current boat I had a deposit on an 05 420 DB. I asked the seller to provide a disclosure recommended by a cranky old surveyor I knew that asked about any major repairs. The seller disclosed that one of the 480CE motors had dropped a valve. A little google searching uncovered dozens of similar cases. I figured the other motor was compromised and backed out of the deal and later found my boat with QSC 500 motors.

Also learned that the cummins service centers will provide you with records if you have the engine serial numbers. At the time cummins did not keep a central repository of service records so you had to call each individual service center and ask for records. Not sure if that situation has improved.
 
sb in gp said:
Before I bought my current boat I had a deposit on an 05 420 DB. I asked the seller to provide a disclosure recommended by a cranky old surveyor I knew that asked about any major repairs. The seller disclosed that one of the 480CE motors had dropped a valve. A little google searching uncovered dozens of similar cases. I figured the other motor was compromised and backed out of the deal and later found my boat with QSC 500 motors.

Also learned that the cummins service centers will provide you with records if you have the engine serial numbers. At the time cummins did not keep a central repository of service records so you had to call each individual service center and ask for records. Not sure if that situation has improved.
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That surveyor likely saved you a bundle, I sleep soundly at night knowing I have the 500 HDs on our 44 DB.
 
JVM225 said:
A certified Cummins mechanic should look at it ASAP.
Friend just had a problem with a Cummins in his 05 420 DA. Not sure what model Cummins motor it is but the problem was an exhaust valve seat on number 4 cylinder dropped.
Local Cummins service company knew exactly what the problem likely was as soon as he called them for an appointment to have a mechanic look at it.
Apparently it's a design issue with the heads on those motors and Cummins has redesigned them a couple of times since the engines were first manufactured.
It was an expensive fix that included a new head, piston, and cylinder sleeve. He got lucky in that the debris didn't work it's way in to the turbo, and he was able to get it all done in about a week in the middle of the season.
They found a crack in the number 6 cylinder exhaust seat too once they got it apart.
I think he is negotiating with Cummins to offset some of the cost.
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Could you pass on any info from your friend's interaction with Cummins. We are in the same situation here in SF but Cummins is acting like they know nothing. Would greatly appreciate any back-story info. Thank you.
 
Michael LAEL said:
Could you pass on any info from your friend's interaction with Cummins. We are in the same situation here in SF but Cummins is acting like they know nothing. Would greatly appreciate any back-story info. Thank you.
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Uh - Ford Lehman diesels in your signature...???
 
Carpediem44DB said:
Here is the update on the knock. Looks like a dropped valve seat. Cummins tech showed up and removed the valve cover and rotated the crank until it locked up on the stuck open valve on number four cylinder. Looks like an engine pull and either overhaul or repair at the least. On these Searays with the Cummins the engine room is not tall enough to raise the engine to drop the pan for piston removal. Big job for sure. We are going to single engine it in t he morning about twenty miles to a yard that will pull the engine on Tuesday and get this party started.
Harold really wishes he had just kept his flawless 98 400 Sedan Bridge. He really just moved up to enjoy ownership of an updated boat with those reliable deisels. Real Bummer!!!
Any info from others that had Valve Seat failures and got Cummins to help out with repairs would be appreciated. The boat is 13 years old with 700 plus hours so dont expect much from Cummins unless it was considered a latent defect issue.
Ill update here with anything that is of interest as the repair progresses. As an owner of the same boat I am intensely interested in understanding these engines and root causes for any difficulties that might be avoided by routine service or inspection.
Have a great weekend on the water this weekend
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Carpe Diem - I am in SF Bay Area also with the same dropped exhaust-valve seat on a Sea Ray. Were you able to find any information from others about how to deal with Cummins. So far they pretend ignorance. I would like to hold them to account. Thank you.
 
carterchapman said:
Uh - Ford Lehman diesels in your signature...???
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I own a Marine Services Biz in SF and am in the process of repairing damage from a dropped exhaust valve seat on a Sea Ray and replacing the other engine cylinder head as preventative. Am trying to assist the owner as much as possible here. Happened on a 350 hr engine!
 
Michael LAEL said:
I own a Marine Services Biz in SF and am in the process of repairing damage from a dropped exhaust valve seat on a Sea Ray and replacing the other engine cylinder head as preventative. Am trying to assist the owner as much as possible here. Happened on a 350 hr engine!
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Ahhhh - thanks! Look forward to your participation on our Forum!
 
When Harold's engine issue happened we did some poking around and were stonewalled by Cummins. Harold did not want to pursue legal action, he just wanted his new to him boat back in service so he just bent over and paid the local Cummins dealer in Sacramento to repair the broken engine and replace the head on the other one. If it had been me I would have been a major pain in the ass for Cummins and been made whole eventually. We only heard through the grapevine that early on some people were successful in getting Cummins to step up and repair engines under warranty but we never actually were able to contact an actual owner to get first hand information. Have you contacted Tony at Seaboard Marine yet? I seem to remember contacting them with not much encouragement that we would prevail.
Sorry you are having the issue. It really sucks that a company with such good products in general don't stand up and take responsibility for their occasional blunders. I guess the bean counters calculate the risk/ benefit and figure the black eye is cheaper than doing what is right!
 
Any of you folks that own a boat with the 480 CE 8.3 engines that have not had the latest heads installed are really playing Russian Roulette with two bullets in the cylinder. Compare $15000 to replace both heads that can be done in the water with the engines in place against an engine repair at $20,000 plus for one engine where the engine has to removed by ripping the cabin apart, removing the sliding door assembly and the transom. Then watching the yard guys rig up an A frame on your deck and inch that 1800 lb engine out with a block and tackle. Somewhere I have a series of pics that Harold took and it was not pretty! Before you put a dime into updating the Navionics or installing the underwater lights or fancy retractable swim platforms, get those heads replaced prophylactically. It's a big nut to swallow but you will sleep way better knowing it is done.
Carpe Diem
 
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