Official 280 Sundancer Thread

Henry Boyd said:
On some engines, like our 496, the oil filter is mounted "upside down". The marine specific filters supposedly have a flapper valve that prevents the filter from draining oil when it is removed. I don't know for sure having always left oil changes to the boatyard techs. I do know that in ten years of ownership and oil changes, and multiple Merc service people, I have never been presented with an oil soaked bilge post oil/filter change. An automotive oil filter probably does not have this feature. So depending on how your filter(s) is mounted, you may want to consider the trade off between clean up, and non marine oil filters.

Henry
Click to expand...

Or you can drain the oil prior to pulling the filter. Drain after running it, a put a small hole in the top of the filter, and you'll have virtually no mess.
 
Problems with 4.3 rotor and cap....

On our twin 2003 4.3 MPI Dancer, we changed the plug wires, cap and rotor. After that it ran like crap. Harder to start, and both engines occasionally quit after starting (didn't have that before), AND wouldn't push the boat over 2200 rpm and no way could we get on plane.

Gas is good, plugs only 6 months old, filters 2 months.

In searching, we have seen that the 4.3 that has the "flat" cap is a major problem. The new caps are garbage from what's said.

Any truth to this, and what is the solution?

Going to change back to the old ones and see how it goes.
 
"Flat" style... we lovingly refer to it as the "crab" style :smt001

No, I haven't really seen any inherent problems with it. It's not really anything special or different than the traditional style - just more "space conscious". However, there's always the possibility that one of the new things you bought are DOA - or of poor quality if not OEM or another good brand. The FIRST thing I would check, before swapping old parts back in, is that you got all of the plug wires installed correctly/fully and installed in the correct firing order. If you swap old parts in, try one thing at a time, otherwise you won't know which one is the problem.
 
Lazy Daze said:
"Flat" style... we lovingly refer to it as the "crab" style :smt001

No, I haven't really seen any inherent problems with it. It's not really anything special or different than the traditional style - just more "space conscious". However, there's always the possibility that one of the new things you bought are DOA - or of poor quality if not OEM or another good brand. The FIRST thing I would check, before swapping old parts back in, is that you got all of the plug wires installed correctly/fully and installed in the correct firing order. If you swap old parts in, try one thing at a time, otherwise you won't know which one is the problem.
Click to expand...

Bought all OEM, Merc parts. Checked wires run correct and plugged in, will check again. Yea, will do one thing at a time.

Thx
 
Seevee said:
Or you can drain the oil prior to pulling the filter. Drain after running it, a put a small hole in the top of the filter, and you'll have virtually no mess.
Click to expand...

Huh?? The filter is mounted upside down, I.e. The domed end of the filter is up and the threaded end is down. Drilling a hole in the filter won't do anything for you other than letting the oil dribble down the side of the engine.

Henry


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Seevee said:
Or you can drain the oil prior to pulling the filter. Drain after running it, a put a small hole in the top of the filter, and you'll have virtually no mess.
Click to expand...

Henry Boyd said:
Huh?? The filter is mounted upside down, I.e. The domed end of the filter is up and the threaded end is down. Drilling a hole in the filter won't do anything for you other than letting the oil dribble down the side of the engine.

Henry


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Click to expand...
Sometimes when you change filters you get more oil pouring out than others, I wonder if the anti drain back valves aren't consistent in sealing. Now I just poke a hole in the filter first thing. The oil will slowly drain from the filter when you let it have some air.
 
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Woody said:
Sometimes when you change filters you get more oil pouring out than others, I wonder if the anti drain back valves aren't consistent in sealing. Now I just poke a hole in the filter first thing. The oil will slowly drain from the filter when you let it have some air.
Click to expand...

On the 496 the filter is kind of surrounded by other stuff, so getting something to drain the oil into would be a challenge. But either way, in my case it becomes my tech's issue.

Yes I know I could save a lot of money doing this myself. But we have been fortunate to find service people who really are first rate, so I'm comfortable leaving all engine service work to them. My theory is that it's best to have someone who knows 100% of what's been to the engine.

Henry


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I find that i unscrew the filter a little and it drains slowly back into the pan to be extracted. then i take and unscrew the filter slowly after about 10 minutes, before i take it completely off, i slip my glove off and wrap the filter with it. Not a drop of unwanted oil is spilled.
 
Henry Boyd said:
Huh?? The filter is mounted upside down, I.e. The domed end of the filter is up and the threaded end is down. Drilling a hole in the filter won't do anything for you other than letting the oil dribble down the side of the engine.

Henry


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Click to expand...

Henry Boyd said:
On the 496 the filter is kind of surrounded by other stuff, so getting something to drain the oil into would be a challenge. But either way, in my case it becomes my tech's issue....
Henry


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Click to expand...
When you poke the hole in the filter it drains back to the pan. You don't have to worry about catching any of it.
 
thanks for the Info I'm starting this fun project this weekend. 4000 sounds like what I should us, the owner before me re chalked the rub rails with clear... I'm debating if I should keep in clear or switch it back to white?
 
I want to add Sirius radio to my boat. Just bought the clarion CeNet tuner. Is this hard to setup? Which side of the radar arch should I run the antenna cable? I’m thinking port?


Thanks,

Jon
 
Woody said:
When you poke the hole in the filter it drains back to the pan. You don't have to worry about catching any of it.
Click to expand...

My bad, I completely missed the point. Sometimes things are so obvious you just can't see it. Makes perfect sense.

Henry


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Hi my 2006 280DA key pads have gone nuts. I have to decide whether to buy 2 new EIMs and 2 key pads at about 2500 since they all appear to interface. The better long term fix is to bypass both EIMs and direct wire the helm with regular 12v switches although there is a small area for about 12 switches on both sides. Has anyone tried thar or know of someone that makes a replacement panel without the dadgum 5 v key pads and unduly compex EIM system?
 
Can't one just fix the eim? Electronics specialist shop maybe? Can't believe those cost so much. Mine were just replaced by the PO.
 
no not really. the system works on 2 pads with 6-10 micro switches each , along with 2 modules (called aft and forward....even though one is port and one is starboard). They don't call them that since the "port" (aka "aft") does not control just the port switch.

Each pad and each EIM are comingled as to whether they control the port or the starboard panel. they are all inter connected, and with software in each one there is no way to know if a new replacement would work. its a crappy system, unnecessarily complex. directly wiring each component is a better fix, but messy too. parts are cheap but labor high. In round no, SR charges about 400 for each replacement pad panel. the EIM are not the same, but average about 500-600 each. Yes there are 3 diff components inside that are accessible but SR only supports the whole unit. thus all 4 is the only fix that seems feasible unless one was willing to buy an try one at a time. they could burn up if mismatched to defective part. considering I cannot pull up anchor, run the bilge pump, or the head and so on, I'm in dry dock until it is fixed. mechanics says it is choice of high price parts and easy install (of a crappy system that my not last) or slow install, high labor but a long rocker term fix. it just a LOT of rocker switches n a small panel space. it may look crappy and work well. SR went for looks on the design, not function. it wont e supported forever.
 
Bama,

I kind of agree and disagree.

I think the CSR membership has kicked the topic of future replacement of the EIM and switchpads a number of times in the past. I've even done some work laying out a rough spec and design for converting to direct switching through a fuse block. Done right with proper wire type and gauge, using the standard color coding, good switches etc. would both be expensive and very time consuming as a diy project. For example I added a new marine grade rocker switch to the helm as a master on off for all our electronics and the single switch was something like $30.

Maybe we can get someone with an electronics background to help locate someone who can refurb/reman the EIM and switch pads. Any volunteers?

The concept of networked switches is pretty good engineering. It certainly leads to much simpler installation and wiring. It also makes adding options very easy. While the former has little impact to users, the latter really is a plus. Having lived with a boat that had old school wiring where chasing down corroded connections was a constant PITA, anything the reduces the physical amount of wiring is a plus to me.

For your immediate problem. I hate to say it but biting the bullet may be your best course. Unless you can find a real first class electrician who can replicate all of the functions and have the helm look good, you will have resale issues.

Sorry couldn't have been more help.

Henry


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Hi Henry thanks for the detailed info. Haven't been on CSR much lately and often depended on Jason 78 Tonka Boater and you! Hope weather is fair in NE. I have a great electrician on the job who wanted to mount 2 terminal blocks in the 2 EIM spaces and fabricate a harness to run the same circuits to the helm directly to 12 v. switches. He worked for MM for 12 years. The biggest prob would be to get the new panel made with the space for rocker switches. There is a company tech something that does that well in Fl. And matches finishes. But it is a redesign. Due to time constraints of the re wire, I went with buying SR replacement parts. I got 12 years out of the OE ones, and hope I get as much from these. But there was one more problem that was not mentioned in my original posting. Here it is, pretty wonky.

If if you have a Gennie, as I do, you have a 5th component to the network. It is a little box under the helm that blinks green lights like a modem. It inter connects the helm pad operation to the generator start switch (and the required bilge blower) inside the cabin at the main panel. In other words since the blower is operated from both locations, this 5th comoment is required. It's the simplest and probably the cheapest component but SR DOES NOT STOCK IT. It's obsolete and unavailable anywhere. It could be here culprit, but there is no way to replace it if it fails. The part isn't even shown on my schematic, or on the diagrams for the model on line.

My complaint is that I have paid a mechanic to find all of this out from MM and SR. Now I have to gamble on the fix to buy 4 out of 5 compments. Sooner or later all of us will have to re wire. Biting the bullet would,be to delay operation longer and rewire.

I am trying to cut my losses, and going for a quick fix. But the interphase block ain't available anywhere according to SR. Sure hope it works when I get the 4 other parts at 2 grand come in.

maybe someone can identify a supplier of the interphase block.

Gennies are essential in our Gulf climate for AC!!!!
 
So, do these eim go out often? Wondering how long mine will last as they were just replaced. Is this why everyone has the helm covers made?
 
Chrisvr6 said:
So, do these eim go out often? Wondering how long mine will last as they were just replaced. Is this why everyone has the helm covers made?
Click to expand...

The issue is less the EIMs longevity, but as Bama points out above, the availability of replacement parts. If you have new parts, barring a lightning strike, you should get many years.

This seems to be a common problem across all products, e.g. We just had to replace a high end dishwasher because the led electronic control part died and replacements are no longer available. We've also got a similar issue with our stove (same vintage different maker) where the oven controls are. Acting erratic.

Bama, when I laid out my plans I went with using toggle switches to save space. I found one that used a translucent plastic handle that was lit by an led.

As for your gen fan issue I don't have a solution. But I'll tell you we don't have a gen, and thought of adding one, but could never figure out how the darn blowers were energized by the gen ignition .

My guess is that the black box acts as a switchpad surrogate. The switches on the pad are both on off and provide some kind of ID signal. The EIM besides having breaker circuits contains a multiplexer (MUX) that reads the incoming data stream from the switchpad, ids the switch function, then triggers the right relay to switch the device. The black box may take the binary on/off state from the gen start up switch to create a data stream the MUX can interpret as blower on.

I think longer term we (CSR 280 owners) should try and be proactive and find someone who can fix these things, or design a drop in re-wire re-switch kit. Like I said before, any volunteers?

Henry

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