Bad survey on our 1998 450DA - Hire a lawyer???

I was wondering if anyone could offer their two cents. We purchased this Sundancer from Grand Rapids, MI sight unseen this past November. We paid for her to be surveyed prior to. No where in the survey did it list the numerous issues we've encountered now that it's in the water. These issues include an inoperable hydraulic swim platform, missing central vac unit, inoperable trim tabs, vacu-flush pump inoperable in rear head, numerous cockpit AND cabin leaks, moldy stateroom door and wood, etc. etc. etc.

Is there any legal recourse we could get from either the previous owner and/or surveyor by hiring an attorney?

Can't answer your questions, but thanks for some well needed clarity. I have a survey and sea trial scheduled for tomorrow morning and had been very reluctantly considering not going as I really need to be at the office tomorrow. However, your post was a perfectly timed sign that I need to trust my gut and be there tomorrow! Have you tired contacting the surveyor and questioning them about the deficiencies? Good luck to you moving forward!

Was the boat brokered or private sale? Who did your survey, I live in GR.

I'm guessing you would have to get your own survey done after the fact, outlining the problems. Then it's that guy's word vs. the previous guy's word. Also they will likely say, it wasn't like that when the boat was seen by your first surveyor. Then you'd need estimates for all the repairs. Then you get started with long distance litigation.

Can you do a cost-benefit analysis to see if these all of the above would be more expensive than just doing the repairs and chalk it up to caveat emptor?

READ THE FINE PRINT
most likely there IS some about liability of the surveyor and It will not be in your favor

I say it every time it comes up, but never, buy a boat you haven't first looked at in person. I am always told: "Its too far" or "I don't have time". Well, this is the reason why. It is a lot easier to take the time and travel to see a boat before you get contractually obligated to buy it than it is to be where DJDaoust is now trying to put a neglected boat back together.


To answer the original question about a suit against the buyer or your surveyor, the answer is unfortunately in the documents on your desk.

Your sale contract will have the wording "as is where is, with all faults" or something similar. That means you have to discover any faults the seller or his broker doesn't disclose when you looked at the boat.......(oops!) or you own them. If the broker disclosed to you that something didn't work, then you own that issue anyway because you were aware of it when you entered into the contract.

Now, as to the surveyor, Most surveyor contracts have exclusionary terms in them as well. Look for a "best efforts" clause that states that basically you are hiring the surveyor and he will survey the boat but is limited to providing his best efforts. What that means is that is is limited to do as good as he can with his experience and training. He is therefore only limited to his personal negligence. Additionally, the survey contract may also have exclusionary terms like "Surveyor will not remove covers" or will verify the function of electronic device since he is not trained in their operation.

I am afraid that about all you can hope for here is to threaten the surveyor to the point where he refunds your survey money and you part company. If he won't, then you can create havoc for him in his profession by writing (not email, paper sent by registered mail) to Whomever he is registered with (SAMS, NAMS) demanding they remove him from registration or who trained him (Chapmans, Marine Surveyor School, etc.). Finally, I'd ask him if he carries errors and omissions insurance and then find out how to file a claim against his policy if he does.


The good news here is that you have one of the best boats Sea Ray ever gave customers and you have found no serious structural problems.....this situation could have been a lot worse.

moparlvr4406 said:

READ THE FINE PRINT
most likely there IS some about liability of the surveyor and It will not be in your favor

Click to expand...

My thought exactly! +1

Not that it will help your situation, but I agree with never purchasing a boat without having seen it in person. I recently went through a purchase of a boat in Maryland (I live in Seattle), and I flew myself and my wife out to get eyes on it and go through the survey and sea trial. I had been told going in (I paid the surveyor some extra to go out and do a quick walk-through) that it was a very clean boat, but I would not have felt at all comfortable with going forward without having seen it, been on it, gone through all the systems, etc.

That said, I got a very detailed survey report that showed the condition and deficiencies of everything on the boat. Included in the survey was a standard disclaimer, but it's very vague and probably not binding. Unless you are there to go through everything during the survey, and then use the results of that to either negotiate with the seller or agree to the purchase and sale agreement based on the survey, I don't know if you will have many legal options/rights without spending a ton more money on attorney fees.

Sorry to hear of your situation, hopefully others can learn from it.

Kevin

We live in Tacoma (Seattle area) and here is my wife sitting on the boat in Huntington Beach Harbor when we flew down to kick the tires and have surveyor & diesel mechanic on board... Frank is right about the 450, we celebrated 9 years 2 weeks ago and still loving every minute. Very sorry to hear about your situation and if you could you should string the surveyor up by the short hairs...

IMO the issue is being danced around. Who hired the surveyor???

Who is dancing? These Appear to be accurate responses to me. I am not a lawyer, but I believe the same concepts apply when you buy a home in regards to the inspector. None of this helps the OP, but these are the facts.

dpmulvey said:

IMO the issue is being danced around. Who hired the surveyor???

Click to expand...

I was wondering the same thing.

OP, If you hired the surveyor, look at the contract and see if he ha a hold harmless clause. Still, if you didn't sign it, perhaps you have some recourse...

I agree, mainly, with what has been written here. But, you have a fair amount of issues. So, you might have a case...

I used to build things for a living. A good contract is essential. If things were missed we negotiated them after the contract was in effect. All correspondences was in writing and in legal terms I was told that an email agreement could be considered part of a contract if not contested.
Go over all your correspondence and see if you have anything that states "Boat in good condition" This might be in the sellers advertisement.
If after you assemble and read all document and there are any positive items see a lawyer. In an hour you should find out if there is any possibility of you getting restitution.

Went through roughly the same experience. I did fly down to Miami to look over the boat and it was in cosmetically good shape although the previous owner had performed a lot of string and bubblegum repairs. Nothing that I knew I couldn't personally fix properly.

The broker recommended surveyors for both engines and boat... that was my biggest mistake. The surveyor missed the fact that not a single 110V power outlet on the port side was working. Fortunately for me I made a friend down in Miami, Captain Chris David, and he singlehandedly rewired the defunct power. Every absentee boat owner needs someone like Captain Chris.

Regrettably neither Captain Chris nor the engine surveyor caught the fact that the port engine had a bad #6 cylinder. This required pulling the flooring and then removing/rebuilding the port engine. And while we are there... yeah, we did the starboard engine too. Don't even ask what the cost was.

So my strongest advice is to find your own surveyors. That way they work for you and don't have a vested interest in the outcome of the sale. But all that being said, the 450 is a great boat and a real pleasure once you sort everything out.

I believe the main problem for the OP will come down to time. As with most contracts, "time is of the essence". He said in the original post that the boat was surveyed in November. Now it is May so it is reasonable to expect some mechanical things were working last year during the survey and now they are not. Keep in mind this boat is almost 20 years old. After all, I visit my boat every week and it seems there is always something not working that was working the week before. As far as the leaks he is reporting, I assume this boat was under cover for the winter and therefore it would not be fair to expect the surveyor to find leaks when the boat was "high and dry". I do not believe that the buyer has any recourse under the best of circumstances but especially since so much time has passed.