What happened to Sea Ray

What happened to Sea Ray is the destruction of the middle class, the destruction of small businesses, the costs of Obamacare, the castration of the energy sector and associated higher costs of energy, higher corporate taxes, government regulation, and higher insurance rates. All of this has deeply affected the boating industry. It has cut into profit margins, eliminated competition between suppliers, cut demand for the product, reduced the economy of scale, and made it more costly to produce a boat. This is not about corporate greed maximizing profits.

Amen
 
What are you basing this on?
I'm a small business owner and have thrived over the past 5 years. Obamacare has had ZERO impact on our bottom line or operations. I am part of several small business groups and I've yet to meet a small business owner harmed by these changes. What regulations are you talking about? It sounds like you're hitting all of the Fox News talking points, which have no substance.

The boating industry as a whole is a luxury. When people aren't spending, boat manufacturers suffer.
When I was at the Palm Coast factory in October they told me about some of the mom and pop suppliers that provide them with parts for SeaRay boats. Times have been tough, but they are still working hard to make boats.

Have you tried getting a business loan since 2007? Compare the process and results to trying to get a business loan prior to 2007. Prior to 2007, I filled out a one-page application and qualified. I had a choice of a dozen banks. Banks had posters in the windows promoting business loans. Today, no posters, few banks lending to businesses, and failing to qualify without unreasonable conditions. Let me know what the percentage increase in your employer's health insurance premium has been in the last 5 years. For me, it has been double digit percentages year after year with the most recent, after the passage of Obamacare, being the greatest increase at 50%! I am in the health care industry. My patients are deferring treatment because of higher copayments, deductibles, caps and limits, yet they are paying more for their insurance. The insurance reimbursement to us is flatlined. We have to see more volume to cover our expenses. Rents and wages expenses, including taxes, worker's compensation, and unemployment insurance continue to increase. I come across people in all industries. People are working harder, longer hours, traveling away from family, relocating for a job, changing jobs and careers more frequently than I have ever seen. The cost of college education is crushing families. The cost of real estate and the taxes that go along with it make home ownership almost prohibitive. I know too many people with new babies with the baby in daycare at 3 months old or with the grandparents moving in to take care of the baby, so both parents can work 50 hours a week. You don't see this? I'm not making it up or parroting Fox News talking points. I'm glad your business is thriving. Mine is doing well and I am in no way hurting financially, but I have not lost touch and I do not lose sight of what I can accomplish and the lives I could better if I were not burdened with these restrictions. I don't think we need to take a poll to see who agrees with me.
 
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What are you basing this on?
I'm a small business owner and have thrived over the past 5 years. Obamacare has had ZERO impact on our bottom line or operations. I am part of several small business groups and I've yet to meet a small business owner harmed by these changes. What regulations are you talking about? It sounds like you're hitting all of the Fox News talking points, which have no substance.

The boating industry as a whole is a luxury. When people aren't spending, boat manufacturers suffer.
When I was at the Palm Coast factory in October they told me about some of the mom and pop suppliers that provide them with parts for SeaRay boats. Times have been tough, but they are still working hard to make boats.


Ryan,

I do not pretend to know you’re what line of work or goods you produce or sell in this economy. I can tell you that I have spent the last two days working with our health care provider looking for ways to reduce the proposed cost of insurance for our employees effective July 1. I have handled this with our comptroller for over thirty years and have always looked out for our company cost, employee cost and tried to provide them with three plans to choose from. With the new ACA or "Obumma Care" involvement that is affecting everyone it is almost impossible to find pricing of a plan that anyone with any age will be able to stomach. We have for over 20 years provided a specific dollar amount we would pay towards an employee Health Care plan and with the new changes required are facing upwards of 50% increases in cost to the company and yes we are a small company with less than 50 employees that have been in business since 1924.

How would you roll out proposed new Health care plans (the best that you can find within as much reasonable cost as you can find) to your employees that with family cost and will increase by over $500 per month and not expect to have your teeth handed to you. We are in addition to reviewing all of our options looking at dropping all coverage of which the portion they pay for is paid with pre-taxed dollars and letting all of them wind up in the ACA act plan which is not a very attractive option IMHO. Like most problems IMHO the real increase in health care cost, insurance cost, is related to ambulance chasers, the buzzards whom are looking for be pay outs from anyone's claim the can pursuer. That is why Health Care cost, medicine and all other related industry associated cost have gone through the roof. My youngest son is in his 4th year of medical school and whatever he makes in income will come after and extremely high cost of education that will take years to pay for. If he were to harm someone throughout his medical career I would expect him to pay the cost to make the person whole again and want to make sure everything is done within the process to take care of the person and or family involved. To have someone looking to make a killing moneywise with some buzzard looking for his share of the prize money is a travesty of justice IMHO. Tort reform of which I know little of I’m lead to believe will never happen since those inside the beltway have the most to lose and or their buddies. Time for me to stop now but the is one man’s opinion of what I am seeing happen to our small over 90 year old company which involves lots of employee family and extended family matters.
 
What are you basing this on?
I'm a small business owner and have thrived over the past 5 years. Obamacare has had ZERO impact on our bottom line or operations. I am part of several small business groups and I've yet to meet a small business owner harmed by these changes.

I'm a small business owner in NJ and due to Obamacare's disaster, my company sponsored health insurance premiums DOUBLED from 2013 to 2014. DOUBLED!!!! And my insurance broker, who has hundreds of other clients in NJ, relayed to me his other clients experienced the same. No Fox/conservative talking point there, cold hard fact.
 
So to bring this back around to the original point, "What happened to Sea Ray"?

People stopped buying the boats they made and they are trying to find what people will buy.

That simple...

MM
 
MonacoMike : I thought we had this all figured out? Obama killed Sea Ray in his rush to destroy our entire way of life? If you are confused, just start watching the FOX network and have some Koolaid :smt021 Personally I love the new a Sea Ray Boats. They are just out of our price range. We did find an amazing 2000 SR 380DA, that we could afford without selling our house:grin: We are coming to love our 380DA and not really lusting after the new ones as much. Still, I understand they have gotten away from balsa coring, new drive technology is taking a lot of the angst out of docking, and the new computer controlled engines are lighter and more efficient with less maintenance. Modern Navigation electronics us simply astounding, and items like the refrigeration and A/C benefit from 14 years of technological improvements.
 
MonacoMike : I thought we had this all figured out? Obama killed Sea Ray in his rush to destroy our entire way of life? If you are confused, just start watching the FOX network and have some Koolaid :smt021 Personally I love the new a Sea Ray Boats. They are just out of our price range. We did find an amazing 2000 SR 380DA, that we could afford without selling our house:grin: We are coming to love our 380DA and not really lusting after the new ones as much. Still, I understand they have gotten away from balsa coring, new drive technology is taking a lot of the angst out of docking, and the new computer controlled engines are lighter and more efficient with less maintenance. Modern Navigation electronics us simply astounding, and items like the refrigeration and A/C benefit from 14 years of technological improvements.

Innovation drives prices up. I've seen how they are made firsthand and they make a good boat. They aren't the only ones, but they are making a decent product.

On the politics side, to those who addressed my previous comments I've taken this to PMs and out of the forum. Let's talk a out boats. ;)
 
What are you basing this on?
I'm a small business owner and have thrived over the past 5 years. Obamacare has had ZERO impact on our bottom line or operations. I am part of several small business groups and I've yet to meet a small business owner harmed by these changes. What regulations are you talking about? It sounds like you're hitting all of the Fox News talking points, which have no substance.

The boating industry as a whole is a luxury. When people aren't spending, boat manufacturers suffer.
When I was at the Palm Coast factory in October they told me about some of the mom and pop suppliers that provide them with parts for SeaRay boats. Times have been tough, but they are still working hard to make boats.

It appears you live in the Washington DC area. It has been reported that the DC area has been growing in wealth. I guess with a growing government anything that supports the government will have an opportunity to grow.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2012/03/19/the-expanding-wealth-of-washington/

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/washington-dc-surpasses-new-york-la-fastest-growing-region-wealth_767299.html
 
I have a late 2008 310DA - and a few berths down is a 2011 315DA (European model) - his boat already looks cheap compared to mine. And mine was IMHO rushed together. But get-coat looks better in mine even in places out of reach of the sun on both. Fabric looks better, dashboard looks better - and overall it is just a different quality feel on mine despite my "rushed" boat. The only thing that looks better in the 315DA are the interior flooring - that seems to be of much better quality. But the 2011 315DA is more Bayliner quality than it is 2008 SR quality.

My old 2009 210 looks okay but suffers from to many self tapping screws dropping all the time. But it has Chaparral's around it and they do make SR look inferior in the assembly department. But then there are a few Larsons and they make the SR look better.

So my next boat will probably NOT be a SR if the year is later than 2008. My friend just bought a 2008 Four Winns V338 and assembly quality is almost as high as mine - but better than the 2011 315DA. But the V338 is only for contortionists in the engine department.

But every time I have voiced "my issues" I get slapped in the face with SR is the best. Forget it - that was the PAST. So you can add me (again) to the crackpot list ++
 
A boat was an expensive, but attainable lifestyle that middle class Americans bought when they had job security and income growth, controlled expenses, access to financing, and leisure time. When you are in the business of volume manufacturing boats that costs more to make today than it did 5 or 10 years ago and selling it to a shrinking middle class that still has job security, income growth to keep up with increased living expenses and taxes, and still has enough leisure time to enjoy the lifestyle, but not the access to financing they once had, you need to change your strategy. Those things that a boat builder can change are the costs to manufacture by using less expensive materials and methods, and your target market. Manufacturing a sport boat or sport cruiser with less expense makes it a little closer to attain by a buyer without the same previous access to financing, but does not save the company, because there are simply fewer of these customers. So, you shift your product development and marketing to a different, albeit smaller, demographic altogether, the wealthy.

We are talking about boats, here. This is the sad reality. We have a government that has encouraged dependency and redistribution of wealth and has implemented those policies against popular support. That expense has been passed onto the middle class working American, the previous average boat buyer. Now, they don't buy boats or can't afford to buy the boat that they once could.
 
This was a General Forum Topic and started off as a good discussion about construction materials, building processes, etc. However, politics enter in to the equation, with the usual talking points. As WDC Boater has noted, keep it about boating. If you feel the need to become an on line political blogger, take it to a different web site, or, go to the Tiki Bar, even though CSR guidelines ask that you not. The moderator of this website should be taking a more active role with this.
 
But, wouldn't you agree that allowing threads to wander all over the place isn't good for the forum? That could explain why our search ability is worthless.
 
But, wouldn't you agree that allowing threads to wander all over the place isn't good for the forum? That could explain why our search ability is worthless.

Search is worthless because the site uses a bad (very old) search function. Not because of wandering threads. :)

There are plenty of great search plugins for forums like this but it requires a bit of investment in updating the forum software. You can even use google "embedded" into the forum for better search results. Google provides excellent search results for CSR. In case of Forums a 2008 model is not better than the 2014 model :grin:
 
I fail to see how the thread has "wandered". The OP asked what "What happened to Sea Ray" and it has been answered in many ways. Some related to the market, some related to materials, and some related to our oppressive overseers.

MM
 
It sounds like you're hitting all of the Fox News talking points, which have no substance.

T.
Are you saying that all of Fox New's talking points have no substance? It sounds like that is what you are saying. You must be an Ed Schultz or Chris Mathews fan. They preach the gospel. Are you sure you don't really own a Bayliner?
 
I totally agree with the OP. Starting with the 2008 changes to the smaller boats (18-26 ft) Sea Ray has gone downhill. The quality is about the same. I do not like the styling and the price has gone through the roof. The cost of the new Sundecks are absurd and not in line with the competition. I have several friends that work (or worked) at the Knoxville area locations and they all say the same thing. It is very sad.
 
I fail to see how the thread has "wandered". The OP asked what "What happened to Sea Ray" and it has been answered in many ways. Some related to the market, some related to materials, and some related to our oppressive overseers.

MM

I agree.... politics and economics are factors that are germane the original question.

A boat was an expensive, but attainable lifestyle that middle class Americans bought when they had job security and income growth, controlled expenses, access to financing, and leisure time. When you are in the business of volume manufacturing boats that costs more to make today than it did 5 or 10 years ago and selling it to a shrinking middle class that still has job security, income growth to keep up with increased living expenses and taxes, and still has enough leisure time to enjoy the lifestyle, but not the access to financing they once had, you need to change your strategy. Those things that a boat builder can change are the costs to manufacture by using less expensive materials and methods, and your target market. Manufacturing a sport boat or sport cruiser with less expense makes it a little closer to attain by a buyer without the same previous access to financing, but does not save the company, because there are simply fewer of these customers. So, you shift your product development and marketing to a different, albeit smaller, demographic altogether, the wealthy.

We are talking about boats, here. This is the sad reality. We have a government that has encouraged dependency and redistribution of wealth and has implemented those policies against popular support. That expense has been passed onto the middle class working American, the previous average boat buyer. Now, they don't buy boats or can't afford to buy the boat that they once could.

This example can be played out to luxury car manufacturers to a certain degree too and linked back to boat building. BMW and Mercedes are generally considered top of the line vehicles. But they both have vehicles that range in price from mid-$30k's to well in the $100k's. Does this make the base model 3-series BMW cheap? No, BMW employed materials and processes to keep the price down but keep the quality to their standards and they are introducing this model to a population that many in the middle class can afford. When these entry level buyers feel the difference between a BMW and a Ford they will move up the more expensive models if their income allows. A 3-series BMW does not have the lines, styling and interior finesse that a $150K M6 has but they are both exceptional vehicles....and, in my opinion, really are the "ultimate driving machine". The same goes for Sea Ray's 210 SLX compared to a 650 Fly. The low end Sea Rays are built well and their ride is superior to, say, a Glastron.

I put Sea Ray, Cobalt, Formula, Cruisers, etc in the same class as BMW and Mercedes. The low price models are still built very well and meet Sea Ray standards but they are trimmed to attract a certain income segment. Chaparral, Four Winns, etc are nice boats but more like higher end Fords or Chevys.
 
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Somebody please post a hot, nude chick picture quick. That will stop the bickering!
 
Somebody please post a hot, nude chick picture quick. That will stop the bickering!

OK, this settles it... are you going to say that Sea Ray lost its lines and curves? All that I see is exceptional quality...

SeaRaySwimsuit4.jpg
 
Affordability. You can have to most top "quality" boat on the market, but if the family can only afford X-amount of $$ and they can get a bank loan, then boats will sell. The hot items now are the aluminum pontoons, small run-a-bouts. The average middle class family cannot afford a L650 or even a used 550-DB. Sea ray may make a good boat, but they are overpriced for the average middle class American and even if they could afford it, banks aren't loaning much.

The used boats in the 35-50 ft class is also drying up and driving the price up. Brokers are are asking for boats in this class. Make fun of non-Sea Ray boats such as Bayliner, Cobolt etc but they are appealing to the middle class due to price, not necessarily top quality. Proof? Look at the price of a new 21 ft Sea Ray and the price of say a Bass Tracker or other smaller boats. Price matters.
 

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