Damage history on boat I may buy

TexasPilot

New Member
Mar 21, 2014
26
McKinney, TX
Boat Info
Just backed out of purchasing a 2002 Sea Ray Sundancer 300 with crescent dinette floorplan.
Engines
165 hour twin 5.0L Mercruiser MPIs.
As I mentioned in my "hello message", I have just signed a contract to buy a 2002 Sundancer 300 pending survey and sea trial. Just for kicks, I decided to Google the hull ID number and guess what? It was damaged back in 2003 and sold at auction as a damaged boat. The boat has about 165 hours on it, so that's about 122 hours since damaged. I'll paste the text below but my questions are these:

1) Assuming the survey goes well (letting the surveyor know up front to pay extra attention to the damaged areas) should this damage history keep me from purchasing the boat?

2) Should I even waste my time with a survey?


I am completely bummed out over this. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!!

Here is the link and then the text of the damage:

http://www.marinebidexchange.com/auction/merkatus.exe?Item=645

"General DescriptionThis 2002 Sea Ray 300 Sundancer, 33'4 LOA, was recently purchased new in May 23, 2003, and used for only 1 1/2 months before the dry storage marina dropped it from a fork lift. The vessel landed on its starboard bow side, seperating the bow from the hull with a 1 to 2" gap with cracks, and then bounced on its starboard stern quarter, crushing an 18" section of chine. The impact crushed the perimeter of the Vee berth forward bulkhead with the chain locker, displacing primarily the forward cabinetry and Vee berth, with some movement back in the salon, galley, cracking some galley drawers, etc. The machinery space appears least affected with the Mercruiser 5 liter engine, 43 hours, and the Westerbeke 3.5kw generator, 28 hours, appearing in good condition."
 
My opinion, and it is just my opinion, is that boats are designed to be supported and to carry their weight on the internal structure of stringers, ribs and bulkheads, not be dropped and bounced on a concrete slab. There is no telling what or where some latent damage will show up in thew future. I would be very surprised if the repairs and gelcoat work is good enough that you won't be able to see evidence of the repairs once the boat goes thru several winters and summers with associated temperature changes. While the boat may be structurally sound and be safe to use, that doesn't insulate you from excess depreciation or future gelcoat repairs eventually resulting from the accident. There are several 300DA's on the market, so I would get my deposit back and keep shopping. A reasonable alternative to a 300DA is a 310, a 320, or even a 330DA if you cannot find a good 300.

While this is a hiccup in your boat acquisition project, it isn't the end of the world. You should be congratulated on doing excellent due diligence here and move on................
 
Lots of boats out there to choose from that haven't been dropped from a fork lift. Run and run hard I say.
 
If you do decide to keep moving forward, I would present your findings as reason to back out or negotiate a significantly lower price. This of course depending on the survey results. it could have been dropped from 4' or 14'. the only way to tell is to look.
 
it could have been dropped from 4' or 14'

Good point on the height from which it was dropped. It is also advertised as a freshwaater boat. If it was in St. Petersburg, I am reasonably sure it wasn't in freshwater. Probably not a deal breaker (water type) but it does make me want to question the history a little (lot) more diligently.
 
The damage you reported sounds more like 14' than 4"'s. St. Pete is saltwater all the way and that's the way we like it. :grin:
 
Frank has been kind enough to guide many us with our boat purchases. In my case, it was a prospective boat purchase. He never told me to buy or not buy but his advice made me think hard and I wisely walked away from a couple of boats. You won't find anyone here with better advice.
 
I have some experience in building boats, but am in no way an expert. The description sounds like significant damage inside and out. In order to repair that damage the boat should have been stripped clean. I doubt that happened. A little fiberglass and gelcoat, resetting some screws and wall coverings could hide a lot of problems that may come up in the future. You also don't know the competency of the repair shop. Some may do a great job, others may rush. There are a ton of boats for sale. I would personally keep looking. The right boat is out there. Of course the decision is yours. You have to ask yourself if it's even worth paying for a survey? If you do go ahead with this boat I would be interested in hearing what the surveyor said. Good luck.
 
I'd agree with Frank. Unless you can get it for a project boat price, I'd move on to the next one. Any future buyer of the boat will have the same issue with the repair. God knows how the impact affected the stringer system in the boat. I'd be surprised if the internal structure did not show signs of de-lamination on the opposite side.

Plus one more, sometime in the future you will want to sell it, and if someone googles the same info you have.........


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Could this boat have survived the drop and/or be repaired properly? Sure. I've seen it done. Plus, it's been quite a few years since the repair, which bodes well for the boat and the repair. HOWEVER, you have (as far as I can tell) zero information on the repair and the repair process and who repaired it. Maybe Sea Ray was involved with this? Without substantial information and proof of a proper repair, I wouldn't feel comfortable with this purchase unless it was an absolute steal and a half. Even then I would have my doubts due to resale value.

I think that was an excellent thought to google the HIN. If I were in the this situation, I would consider that a nice stroke of luck and walk away. It might very well be fine - but I know I would be constantly worried about it and every little crack I find would give me a case for worry.
 
I keep my boat in a wet slip at a large Sea Ray dealership in Florida. They also have 650 boats dry stacked in "the Barn". Accidents happen sometimes thru carelessness; sometimes due to mechanical failure. About 5 years ago, a hydraulic hose blew off one of the Wiggins forklifts while they were moving a 27 ft Sportcraft to the launch well. The hose that gave up went to the cylinder that controls the sideways movement of the forks for varying beam boats. The boat was 9 ft in the air and fell between the forks to a concrete floor. Now, this was not a Sea Ray, but they cleaned up the aftermath with a skid loader, broom, dust pan and a dumpster. Since this boat is a Sea Ray, it was salvageable, but at some point, evidence of the repairs is going to resurface and you will have to deal with that.
 
Every time I hit a decent wave with it, I would be holding my breath. The above posters are right, kudos to you for finding out about it. Take it as a "it happened for a reason" and move on without looking back. Good luck.
 
Run, Forest, Run. Not worth the potential headache. People a LOT more knowledgeable than me have spoken. Take heed.
 
What I don't like is the boat is totally being misrepresented. Is this a broker, dealer, or private sale. IF it private I guess it's excusable because the last person that bought it may have not know they history. IF its broker or dealr then shame on them. Mostly for not disclosing the damage info (they have access to google just the same as you) and second for marketing it as a freshwater. Definitely run from this boat, and if its a dealer or broker find somewhere else to shop.
 
I can't begin to thank you all enough. I obviously want to cover all my bets...the first one being to verify the HIN and be absolutely sure this is the boat we're talking about. I got the HIN from the sales contract and have not verified it against the boat. I'm not holding out any hopes that they punched in a wrong digit, but I want to be sure. I'd also like to verify that the repair is visible...this simply to ensure the HIN is correct on the auction site and to confirm once and for all that this really did happen. I'll put eyes on it Sunday or Monday when I'm back in town, but in your opinions do you think I will be able to detect the repair job with a close visual inspection? Assuming the HINs line up and there is noticeable repair work done in the areas (or even one area) where the damage occurred, I think I will walk away. I know there are a lot of boats out there, but we were getting this one at 24% less than asking (maybe they knew?). Boy was I excited :(
 
What I don't like is the boat is totally being misrepresented. Is this a broker, dealer, or private sale. IF it private I guess it's excusable because the last person that bought it may have not know they history. IF its broker or dealr then shame on them. Mostly for not disclosing the damage info (they have access to google just the same as you) and second for marketing it as a freshwater. Definitely run from this boat, and if its a dealer or broker find somewhere else to shop.

Yes, it was a broker. One who said he sold the boat to her current owner. I should have asked more questions. I will ask those questions today.
 
My boat neighbor owns a Cruisers - a Baja went through the side of it. To me it always looked great. I had a gelcoat repair, small chip fixed on my boat and was sharing the story with the gelcoat guy. He showed me within seconds where the repair ended and started. I am pretty good at finding flaws. A trained eye can see these problems instantly. If worrying about the repairs is going to bother you. Then I would consider moving on. Because you won't enjoy the boat.
 
A trained eye can see these problems instantly.

That's interesting! I have learned that a very reputable Sea Ray dealer in Texas (I won't name names) supposedly did a survey on this boat and didn't find the repair. I find that either very hard to believe, he was a poor surveyor, or maybe the HINs are incorrect and this isn't a problem that actually exists...don't I wish? I'm going to put eyes on it Monday and we're going to get a surveyor to look for signs of the repair. My broker was shocked at my revelation and I trust him.
 
The old saying goes "You can put lipstick on a pig, when when you look at it's ass, you know it is a pig."

Really true in this case. A good gelcoat repair can mask the quality of the fix underneath. The extent of the damage you described is going to be evident from inside the boat because this was structural damage. No cosmetic repair to partial thickness of the hull would be satisfactory. You might have to remove some inspection panels in lockers in the cabin or look behind bilge equipment with a mirror, but you will see the nature of the repair inside the hull. Another place to look is where the main bulkhead is tabbed (fastened) or glassed to the hull........if the boat was dropped on her bow hard enough to bounce on concrete and then hit the aft quarter, I'd almost guarantee that the tabbing is either broken loose or shows repairs.

Because you don't see the repair from the outside doesn't mean you won't have problems like spider cracking (around the outside margin of the gelcoat repair), hull twist, or rub rail joint leaks in the future.

Bear in mind that we haven't even see photos of the boat, much less the boat itself and that these comments are based on your posts and description. The other thing worth mentioning is that repairs like this can be done successfully (but not cheaply). This was not a warranty repair and I am 99% sure that Sea Ray didn't repair it..........it was fixed where it was damaged, not in the factory that built it in Tennessee. The financial risk here is so great that buying this one is a gamble (if the repair history is correct). You really need to tread lightly. Your discount to asking price may turn into having to give a good part of it back in the form of repairs or depreciation for the damage in 3-4 years just to get rid of the boat when you are ready to trade up.

Good luck with whatever you decide................
 

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