Overtaking

I just wanted to share this and see what you all thought. I was at the lake of the ozarks for the shootout boat races last weekend. Thousands of boats were going to the race in the same direction in a no wake zone. My boat is the little guy. Everyone was moving along at less than idle speed about 15-20 feet apart. We were all waving at each other and giving complements to each other. It was very cool. All of the sudden I hear people whistling and yelling from behind. I look behind me and the people on the bow of a 44+ searay 30 feet back are yelling to look behind me. They then passed me and a bunch of other boats and pushed through the crowd. Trying to be nice, I waved at them as the went by. After they went by I thought to myself what a bunch of jerks or something like that. I have been going to the lake for 40 years and have never had a problem with a fellow boater. I felt like I should have ask them if they new the rules of the water and wished they were not in a searay. What would you have done or said? We did not have any music playing at the time. I hope everyone has a safe weekend. Thanks.

Just because they have a big Sea Ray doen't make them smart...

One of the many reasons I don't boat at the lake.

I believe there is a rule to use your horn before overtaking another vessell (two toots if passing to port, one toot if passing to starboard - or maybe vice-versa?). Anyway, I have noticed that absolutely no one follows that rule and when I asked another boater "why?" he told me you would be considered a geek if you did!

patchkit123 said:

... I felt like I should have ask them if they new the rules of the water and wished they were not in a searay...

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...and what the h3ll does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

RiverRat said:

Just because they have a big Sea Ray doen't make them smart...

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How true

antso said:

I believe there is a rule to use your horn before overtaking another vessell (two toots if passing to port, one toot if passing to starboard - or maybe vice-versa?). ...

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Correct two toots for port...

"Anyway, I have noticed that absolutely no one follows that rule and when I asked another boater "why?" he told me you would be considered a geek if you did!"

Maritime rules and laws are there for a reason. it has nothing to do whether you are Bubba, geek, Pansy or whatever.

So I guess I am a geek! and I will remain one.

:thumbsup:

If you search "horn" on this forum, you will probably see why people were on the bow yelling instead of the signalling with the horn.:lol:

Well it's tough to say from your description, but. How fast were you moving in the no wake zone. If they passed you on plane or throwing a big wake then yes I would agree rude and un-called for. Or did you mean the folks on the bow yelling were yelling rude things!!! That I understand, I though the captain was rude for passing or was that part of your point too?

I have read on here from 44+ size boats that idle is 6 knots just in gear, so if you were moving along slower then that then the other boat would need to run on one engine or bump them in and out of gear. Or course they could do that, but not knowing about wind, current, their restricted manuverabilty on one engine if they choose to do that its tough to say. I would still think them rude if they blew their horn to pass, I bet they would have been blowing a lot based on all the boats.. Were there other 44+ ft boats moving along in line not passing?

We were all going the same speed heading to raft up for the start of the day. No one else was passing just maintaining a steady heading. We had to go about 2 miles of no wake zone to get to the race. No one seamed to be partying as it was early in the morning. This boat just starting weaving its way through the crowd. I was popping it in and out of gear in order to flow with everyone else. They were just yelling turn around which what I was doing every 10-15 seconds. The amount of boats stacked up, going in the same direction was unreal. Good to know the min. idle speed for one of the big boys is that high though. Thanks

Alegria said:

I have read on here from 44+ size boats that idle is 6 knots just in gear, so if you were moving along slower then that then the other boat would need to run on one engine or bump them in and out of gear. Or course they could do that, but not knowing about wind, current, their restricted maneuverability on one engine if they choose to do that its tough to say.

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I am not arguing with your statements, just using them for reference, as I am not sure what boat rules are on small enclosed lakes. By enclosed lakes I am referring to those which are typically much smaller then say the Great lakes and the maritime rules and laws for them.

Well they maybe do 6 knots at idle, but I find that a bit high and hard to believe, and I would recommend they do not try it around here in Jacksonville, Florida in certain portions of the St. John's and the Inter-coastal waterway. The law, as well as the Coast Guard will at times get a bit uppity if you are in a no wake zone and you are making even a small wake, Manatee's rule. The conditions best be in your favor, e.g. a small wake is due to it being the slowest you can go to still maintain control.

Alegria said:

...I would still think them rude if they blew their horn to pass, I bet they would have been blowing a lot based on all the boats.. Were there other 44+ ft boats moving along in line not passing?...

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Rudeness has nothing to do with the horn. As to blowing the horn, I would probably not wish to do it in a group of this many boats, on a lake situation as described here. But here again when one is on the river, it may be to your favor in case something happens, as the boat being over taken is the Stand-on Boat, "has the right of way."

Even the the rules for "Inland US Waterways states, "Two short blasts to mean, I intend to overtake you on your port side. (A short blast is defined as one second)

:thumbsup:

Technically you had the right of way and did not have to move, the vessel overtaking, with a few exceptions for commercial vessils and sailboats, always yields.

I would have moved out of curtousy, unless they were being rude. Then I would have just kept my heading. Maybe I am a jerk for that, but hey, THEY STARTED IT!!

I have driven a boat that idles fast before in a no wake zone and it sucks, always in and out of gear. But it is what you just have to put up with as the faster boat.

Man, a lot of big-boat haters and misinformation here. "You don't have to move"..."Only as an act of self preservation"... Bullsh**....

You DO have to move..

The OP said they were moving "at less than idle speed". Bully for you...So, you think the rest of the world has to move at a snail's pace, because YOU decide YOU want to????

Big diesel boats idle at 5 -8 knots. If I signal you that I'm going to overtake according to the regs, you're supposed to signal back your agreement, unless you CAN'T do it. Not because you want to be an azz and just feel like you want to drive 40 mph in the left lane on the Interstate. You don't own the channel. You want to move along a 2 knots, fine- but stay to the right and let the rest of that want to get somewhere do just that.

When in sight of one another in a narrow channel or fairway:

(i) a vessel intending to overtake another shall in compliance with Rule 9 (e)(i) indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:

two prolonged blasts followed by one short blast to mean "I intend to overtake you on your starboard side"
two prolonged blasts followed by two short blasts to mean "I intend to overtake you on your port side"
(ii) the vessel about to be overtaken when acting in accordance with 9(e)(i) shall indicate her agreement by the following signal on her whistle:

· one prolonged, one short, one prolonged and one short blast, in that order.
INLAND

(c) When in sight of one another :

(i) a power-driven vessel intending to overtake another power-driven vessel shall indicate her intention by the following signals on her whistle:

one short blast to mean "I intend to overtake you on your starboard side"
two short blasts to mean "I intend to overtake you on your port side".
(ii) the power-driven vessel about to be overtaken shall, if in agreement, sound a similar signal. If in doubt she shall sound the danger signal prescribed in paragraph

Scott: I did read your response, and I still (respectfully) disagree.
Even though the overtaking vessel is burdened, it's still up to the stand-on vessel to allow the room to be overtaken, if necessary.

If a boat is chugging along at two knots down the center of the channel, and I need to overtake, I'll give him the appropriate signal, and expect him to move to starboard- as conditions allow- to let me pass.

The tone of some of the other posts seemed to be "screw them- I don't have to let them by 'cause I don't want to", and that's just plain wrong.

Bumping a boat in and out of gear for prolonged periods is not just annoying- it can be dangerous. Whenever the boat's not in gear, it's at the mercy of the wind and current. "Idle speed" means to operate the boat at the minimum speed necessary to maintain control of the vessel. If I'm running with a two-knot current in my channel, I may be doing close to seven knots just to maintain steerage.

As to the vessel not using the appropriate signal, I suspect it may have been out of courtesy in close quarters. Not saying that was correct, but... I know that my dual air horns will make people jump outta their skin from fifty feet away...

Wow! I didn't mean to start trouble with my thread. I only said I wish they were not on a searay because I am proud to be a searay owner and was a little embarassed that they were on one acting that way. It was a little windy and since I was the smaller and more maneuverable boat I stayed as far right as I could through the area. They were the only ones weaving their way through, out of all of the boats. I was however nice to them. I go to the lake to have fun, not to have problems with people. I will avoid this next year by not staying up late the night before and getting there earlier. I did learn something from this thread about the min. speed of bigger boats. That makes perfect sense. I love big boats and will own one someday. Thanks for the replies and again have a safe weekend everyone.

:smt001I would not over think it,Did you have a good time?:smt038

patchkit123 said:

Wow! I didn't mean to start trouble with my thread. I only said I wish they were not on a searay because I am proud to be a searay owner and was a little embarassed that they were on one acting that way. It was a little windy and since I was the smaller and more maneuverable boat I stayed as far right as I could through the area. They were the only ones weaving their way through, out of all of the boats. I was however nice to them. I go to the lake to have fun, not to have problems with people. I will avoid this next year by not staying up late the night before and getting there earlier. I did learn something from this thread about the min. speed of bigger boats. That makes perfect sense. I love big boats and will own one someday. Thanks for the replies and again have a safe weekend everyone.

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What does it matter whether it is diesel or gas powered have to do with any of this?

What type of situation are you talking about.....

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Pic 2.....
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The red boat is the 'big sea ray'....the white boats are the boats going at "less than idle speed"....

Here are the facts I gathered from Patchkits posts:
-Thousands of boats were going to the race in the same direction in a no wake zone
-Everyone was moving along at less than idle speed about 15-20 feet apart
-I was popping it in and out of gear in order to flow with everyone else.
-No one else was passing just maintaining a steady heading.
-They (the big boat) then passed me and a bunch of other boats and pushed through the crowd.

Based on these statements (facts) it seems to me that this guy was out of line. Why does he have rights over anyone else to pass? In this crowded situation it doesn't seem safe to be traveling at higher rate of speed than the crowd. He caused the other boats reduce their safety space so that he could pass.

wish2fish said:

Here are the facts I gathered from Patchkits posts:
-Thousands of boats were going to the race in the same direction in a no wake zone
-Everyone was moving along at less than idle speed about 15-20 feet apart
-I was popping it in and out of gear in order to flow with everyone else.
-No one else was passing just maintaining a steady heading.
-They (the big boat) then passed me and a bunch of other boats and pushed through the crowd.

Based on these statements (facts) it seems to me that this guy was out of line. Why does he have rights over anyone else to pass? In this crowded situation it doesn't seem safe to be traveling at higher rate of speed than the crowd. He caused the other boats reduce their safety space so that he could pass.

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This is what I was getting at, I am moving forward with the rest at no wake speed, and now I am suppose to say well gee this boat behind me is diesel, he needs to pass. I myself am going to follow the maritime rules, so to aviod a collison I am going to let him pass...but just because he is diesel does not make it correct. I do not care if he wears his arm out shifting.

As it so happens my boat is gas, with an overall lenght of 41 feet, what if my boat were diesel, should I also be passing everyone?:huh:

So like I stated;

Pseudomind said:

What does it matter whether it is diesel or gas powered have to do with any of this?

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My question is... Can a 41-42 foot boat traveling @ 8 mph go this fast without a wake? This was a no wake area, and no matter what speed you are talking about going you shouldn't be leaving a wake.

I could go on and on, but you guys are missing the point- the least maneuverable vessel has the right of way in a confined channel. It could have been a sailboat under sail instead of a big cruiser, or a big commercial vessel- same rule applies.

Get out of the way.

It was wrong for "thousands of boats" to be traveling at "less than idle speed"- taking up the entire channel- more or less chatting and sightseeing, by the OP's own description.

You're making the assumption that the "big boats"-diesel or not- just "felt" like going faster than the "crowd".
I'm making the assumption that they needed to- to maintain adequate control of their boats.

Pay particular attention to the part below that says "avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel...navigating a narrow channel" USCG regs.

5. Who has the "right of way" on the water? The Navigation Rules convey a right-of-way only in one particular circumstance: to power-driven vessels proceeding downbound with a following current in narrow channels or fairways of the Great Lakes , Western Rivers, or other waters specified by regulation (Inland Rule 9(a)(ii)). Otherwise, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the way (Rule 18) and either give-way (Rule 16) or stand-on (Rule 17) to vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to maneuver, sailing vessels or vessels engaged in fishing, and, similarly vessels should avoid impeding the safe passage of a vessel constrained by her draft (Rule 18(d)), navigating a narrow channel (Rule 9) or traffic separation scheme (Rule 10). The Rules do not grant privileges they impose responsibilities and require precaution under all conditions and circumstances; no Rule exonerates any vessel from the consequences of neglect (Rule 2). Neglect, among other things, could be not maintaining a proper look-out (Rule 5), use of improper speed (Rule 6), not taking the appropriate actions to determine and avoid collision (Rule 7 & 8) or completely ignoring your responsibilities under the Rules.

RR- to answer your question, too many people take the "no wake" designation literally. It does NOT mean the vessel cannot leave a wake. If a boat's moving, it leaves a wake...
It means the minimum speed required for the vessel to maintain steerage and make headway. For some boats, that might be 8 knots.

tobnpr said:

It was wrong for "thousands of boats" to be traveling at "less than idle speed"- taking up the entire channel- more or less chatting and sightseeing, by the OP's own description.

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Due to the race that was being held in the area The MO water patrol made a 2 mile section of the lake of the Ozarks a no wake area. This part of the lake is 1/4 to a 1/2 mile wide. So I would say that the give way boat had more than ample room to manuever around these boats vs. plowing right through the middle of them. Just my opinion...