Mercury Marine and Unions

I am surprised that no one laid any blame at the governments feet. The housing bubble is back to the government, they created the vehicle for Wall Street to give out mortgages and then lay them off on us taxpayers. Management and unions are both responsible for the automobile mess. Unions could not give anything up and management could not afford the strike. Didn't these people see this coming? It has been coming for 50 years now. High labor costs could be absorbed in large vehicles not small ones so Detroit took on the large vehicle side of the market and gave the rest to everyone else. ions are caused by management and management can get rid them. Unfortunately, government likes unions because they are viewed as a voting block that it wants in place. Enough ranting
 
OK here you go:

I work for the government. The VA. My title is Labor Employee Relations Manager. Yep I am a management puke! I started as a union president. Federal union then went to the "dark side" because the money was better.

The Prez has appointed all union officials in positions in the feds that are going to favor the unions, surprise......yeah right.

I deal directly with federal labor unions and fire employees (management and workers) that abuse my heroes.

The next few years are going to be interesting.....

I only have 6 years to retirement :smt009
 
:smt038:smt038whoohooo!! :smt038 :smt038best news I've heard all day!! A great modernized facility with plenty of capacity is going to keep running! I know some builders that are in great shape to provide resonably cost housing and a bank to provide mortages to the folks moving down here.
 
TurtleTone said:
It's the Governments Fault, It's their fault for forcing Banks to lend money to people that didn't qualify, it's their fault for guaranteeing those loans for people that didn't qualify, and it's their fault for bailing them out. If the government never got involved, banks would have had to manage their own risk and none of this would have happened.
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Mr Salt said:
I am surprised that no one laid any blame at the governments feet. The housing bubble is back to the government, they created the vehicle for Wall Street to give out mortgages and then lay them off on us taxpayers.

Management and unions are both responsible for the automobile mess. Unions could not give anything up and management could not afford the strike. Didn't these people see this coming? It has been coming for 50 years now. High labor costs could be absorbed in large vehicles not small ones so Detroit took on the large vehicle side of the market and gave the rest to everyone else. ions are caused by management and management can get rid them. Unfortunately, government likes unions because they are viewed as a voting block that it wants in place. Enough ranting
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Yes! Thank you. Two excellent posts. I have nothing to add. Great job!
 
Well this sounds nice...la pukey, oh where is the puke icon?

Payday for Unions

Worth the one page read from "Investors.com" August 25, 2009

Mommy, Whats a socialist? :huh:
 
Four Suns said:
Especially the ones that people lied about their income on....

I'm into the whole "personal choice and responsibility" thing. Sorta like the woman on TV this morning that they had asking a question at a town hall meeting... she said she was on welfare (looked to be early 20's) and had 4 young kids (looked to be all under 4 years old) hanging on her and was upset because one of her children died last year because medicaid would not give him the drugs he needed in time to live... so she wanted "health care reform." Didn't understand why people wanted her to suffer.

Now maybe I was born under a rock but...
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anyone got a link to this video? I assume she was there to support healthcare reform but she shows why we shouldn't let the public option be expanded until they get it corrected.
 
Dave S said:
Back to Mercury and the Union.

The union may feel that they didn't get a fair shake from Mercury but to say they won't bend at all makes no sense with the loss of their jobs being the end result. In the end they all deserve what it is coming to them and that is unemployment. It was their choice to make and essentially they voted their jobs out of existence. Pretty stupid if you ask me in todays economy especially as long as Mercury had the Stillwater trump card in their back pocket.

But Mercury has given them a second chance according to the latest news story "Company officials have said they would keep the jobs in Fond du Lac, if the union accepts it contract proposal before Saturday at midnight."Let's see if they are smart enough to say yes to the contract this time.

Dave
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The one thing to keep in mind during these union negotiations is these press releases or media are tools for management (and unions). Sort of a scare tactic for the public, but the unions know these tricks and use them as well. This particular article in the first post seems to be sympathetic to the unions side. So there will probably be another release to look out for today (before saturday)
 
Mogut said:
The one thing to keep in mind during these union negotiations is these press releases or media are tools for management (and unions). Sort of a scare tactic for the public, but the unions know these tricks and use them as well. This particular article in the first post seems to be sympathetic to the unions side. So there will probably be another release to look out for today (before saturday)
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I would have to agree. Both parties use it to better their position at the negotiation table.

I once (when I was in the union) went to the media claiming why did workers have to go to work to "die?" We were negotiating Hazardous Duty Pay and it just so happened that OSHA showed up to test the air in the sheet metal shop. They found that a substance call cadmium dust was floating in the air at 28 times higher that what was allowed. Cadmium is right next to Asbestos as far as nasty stuff.

It worked and management had to cooperate at the table.

I think you may see more of this.
 
What a bunch of idiots. The union management waits until the last minute on Saturday to decide to have a second vote and tried to extend the voting into Sunday. The company said they won't accept the Sunday votes since they originally said Saturday was the deadline. Why didn't the Union decide this on Friday? Everyone's jobs were at stake!!!

I would be fuming mad at Union Management if I was a worker in that plant.


Read the whole story here. http://www.jsonline.com/business/56129892.html
 
There maybe a reason why we bought Searay because of its quality / quality workers?
Some one said in the artical: Without seeing the contract it is impossible for any of us to speculate as to what was in it and the reasoning to reject it. I have to agree.
Hey, The deal runs to "2012" who made that move?
John G
 
There are never any misunderstandings at the upper levels of these things. Each side knows exactly what it is doing. There are miscalculations of strengths and weaknesses, and in this case, it appears the union miscalculated.
 
Four Suns said:
Wasn't there some movie where a guy was holding a gun to his own head saying "don't move or I'll shoot."
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Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles, 1974: Black Bart (Cleavon Little): "Hold it. The next man makes a move, the nigger gets it...Drop it! For I swear, I'll blow this nigger's head all over this town. Oh Lordy-lord, he's desperate. Do what he say. Do what he say."

Pre-political correctness
 
I can see it already...on the decal of all of the Stern Drives..MerCruiser...Hecho en Mexico.:thumbsup:
 
Wow, lots of union-bashing here. My guess is that Merc wanted to move, and never really dished up a fair contract to begin with. Float something nobody would vote for, then blame it on the unions.

While unions aren't perfect, I think we can all thank them for our pension funds, reasonable hours and safe working conditions. A close family member complains about unions, but works 60 hours a week, makes much less and has no pension. It's easy to say that unions and pension funds are passe when you don't have one.

I gather that most of the members here are either self-employed or management. Until we give away the rest of the manufacturing jobs, there will still be a place for collective bargaining.
 
Kameroo said:
Wow, lots of union-bashing here. My guess is that Merc wanted to move, and never really dished up a fair contract to begin with. Float something nobody would vote for, then blame it on the unions.

While unions aren't perfect, I think we can all thank them for our pension funds, reasonable hours and safe working conditions. A close family member complains about unions, but works 60 hours a week, makes much less and has no pension. It's easy to say that unions and pension funds are passe when you don't have one.

I gather that most of the members here are either self-employed or management. Until we give away the rest of the manufacturing jobs, there will still be a place for collective bargaining.
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I accept that it is possible your first statement is correct, would you also accept that it is possible that management made an offer that was incredibly generous compared to the net result of moving to Stillwater, but still unacceptable to the union? (which is what my friend from FDL has passed along) And, if that was the case, what is "fair" and to whom?

I think pensions, collective bargaining, above market pay, and forty hour work weeks are great! However, Adam Smith's invisible hand is at work as well and in the long run, the only thing anyone can expect is a market return for their labor.

I represented Union employees back in my salad days as an attorney, and I am not an antagonist. However, until we all accept the "least value" for our dollar spent, they are hard to cost justify.
 
Kameroo said:
Wow, lots of union-bashing here. My guess is that Merc wanted to move, and never really dished up a fair contract to begin with. Float something nobody would vote for, then blame it on the unions.

While unions aren't perfect, I think we can all thank them for our pension funds, reasonable hours and safe working conditions. A close family member complains about unions, but works 60 hours a week, makes much less and has no pension. It's easy to say that unions and pension funds are passe when you don't have one.

I gather that most of the members here are either self-employed or management. Until we give away the rest of the manufacturing jobs, there will still be a place for collective bargaining.
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That's not the point. Now all of these people will be without jobs. The company may have wanted the move and low balled the union but isn't something better than nothing? As a laborer working for Mercury, I would much rather have a paycheck coming in while I looked for a better job rather than being unemployed like these people will be.

And like it or not, unions across almost all industries have to accept concessions these days if they expect to keep their members employed.
 
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