450 Sundancers '95 - 99 - Negligible List to Port?

450 DA - Slight List to Port

  • Total voters
    1
Maybe A Dancer

Maybe A Dancer

Became a Dancer 12/23/21
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Aug 20, 2021
1,298
Florida West Coast
Boat Info
Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
Engines
450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
I'm going to attempt to do a poll here - don't really know if i'm even going about this the right way, but we'll see.

I've been aboard a total of four 1996 450 Sundancers, but only two in wet conditions, mine and one that was laying in Jacksonville, both of which have a list to port.

The one in JAX was very pronounced, the broker stated that it was likely uneven fuel in the tanks.

On my own '96 it is very slight, but it is consistent.

You really can't see it, but when water gets into the area under the dashboard rocker switch panel, it does not exit through the stbd drain as intended, but rather accumulates on the port side of that indentation.

This condition has been consistent. It was like this in California and is like this with full tankage as well.

There is no carried on-board weight inbalance, however it should be noted that this boat is equipped with a Cablemaster which lives on the port side.

For this reason I typically run the genny off the port side tank

I do recall a member from NY mentioning a similar condition

Just wondering if its just me, or the cablemaster of something else or nothing.

Let's see how the poll turns out

BEST !

RWS
 
RWS, I have never stepped foot on a 450DA. BUT... just reading through what you wrote (the list is NOT noticeable by looking at the boat)... is it possible the boat is level but the area under the dashboard isn't level? Try a putting a level on the cockpit floor to confirm/deny. Try it in a couple different places and even try it on the swim platform. At least this way you'd know for sure it truly is listing.

EDIT: Use a 4' level (not one of those tiny, 10" long ones)

Any water in the bilge?

Again, I've never been on one - so these are just general questions.
 
I’m compulsive over this as well, to the point where I can tell how much black water is in the holding tank by looking at the water line

your boat is a bit wider than ours but it really does not take much to list it. Where’s the holding tank located and how full is it?
 
Lazy Daze said:
RWS, I have never stepped foot on a 450DA. BUT... just reading through what you wrote (the list is NOT noticeable by looking at the boat)... is it possible the boat is level but the area under the dashboard isn't level? Try a putting a level on the cockpit floor to confirm/deny. Try it in a couple different places and even try it on the swim platform. At least this way you'd know for sure it truly is listing.

EDIT: Use a 4' level (not one of those tiny, 10" long ones)

Any water in the bilge?

Again, I've never been on one - so these are just general questions.
Click to expand...

====================
Great Idea !

Likely I'll attempt the level test next time both fuel tanks are full.
 
Strecker25 said:
I’m compulsive over this as well, to the point where I can tell how much black water is in the holding tank by looking at the water line

your boat is a bit wider than ours but it really does not take much to list it. Where’s the holding tank located and how full is it?
Click to expand...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Compulsive? I'm in the club with you and Tom Mott, but I'm not the guy scrubbing his boat 24/7, LOL

Holding tanks are fwd in the engine room, equally off-center, with a balancing valve between them.

The freshwater tank is below the mid-cabin floor - centerlined with the boat.

Likely it's not a water tank issue.

Bilge is the driest of any boat I've ever owned - especially after a rain. Kudos to Sea Ray engineering and manufacturing for that.

Funny, I never thought about the CABLEMASTER being the issue till today

Fridges are also pretty far outboard, on the port side as well.

Although its way, WAY down the list, I'll likely end up fabricating a mirror image of the portside helm drain sometime in the future.

Guess I'm the only one to participate in the poll so far :confused:

BEST !

RWS
 
Just one Man's opinion, But wouldn't it be easy to tell if it really is the cable master by running out as much of the the cable as possible laying it all on the dock. The cable is some seriously heavy stuff. Now it's probably a combination of a few things that add all up. The Cablemaster might be the biggest contributor but it's probably not the only thing. What happens when you run all the cable out and lay it on the opposite side of the boat from the cable master? If that levels it out, then you know there are other things. If boat lists to the new side, well, then that was it.
 
Mine has a slight list to port. It's been driving me crazy for the three years I owned it. My port fuel tank was replaced many years back. I checked the float gauge and realized it never was able to reach the bottom of the tank. I had 12 inches of fuel and the gauge was on E. I thought for a while I had trapped water. I did test holes in a few compartments and found nothing. Part of me thought it was due to having a separate fridge and freezer. cockpit mounted icemaker also on the port side. the heavy Formica countertop and cabinets. not to mention the large bathroom with a walk-in shower. The starboard side has the salon a/c and a large couch and the helm. Maybe thats why they changed the layout after 97
 
I would think the Cablemaster is the culprit, a friend of mine has a 1996 450 and I have noticed when he has the cable almost all the way out at a transient dock the boat sits pretty level. When I see the boat after the cable is fully retracted, it seems to have a slight port list.

Another friend of mine has a 1996 450 without the cable master, but also has a TNT lift and that boat has no noticeable list.

I too am hyper sensitive about a list and can tell when my black water tank is full by the waterline or when my freshwater tank is almost empty. What really drives me nuts about a lot of these boats is the seating when you have a bunch of people on board. Literally every single seat on my boat is on the starboard side or just off center to starboard.
 
Anal retentive, compulsive, obsessive. pedantic - those are a few word my friends use to describe me. It's amazing the sh&#t we obsess about that doesn't matter to anyone else.

I used to be worry about list, especially when I owned the 330DA. I swear it listed to the starboard side, which was the genny side. In the end I think the water line bottom paint was off, tricking my eye, and I stopped worrying about it.
 
Filled her up Sunday morning.

As suggested above, I took a 36" level along

With the level at the boat's centerline I'm about 3/16 off - at 1.5' off dead centerline.

I agree, it's likely the cablemaster.

My only issue here is the water collecting on the opposite side of the drain at the rocker switch panel.

So I'll just drill a hole and find some sort of adequate fitting to put in there to handle it.

BEST !

RWS
 
Maybe A Dancer said:
Filled her up Sunday morning.

As suggested above, I took a 36" level along

With the level at the boat's centerline I'm about 3/16 off - at 1.5' off dead centerline.

I agree, it's likely the cablemaster.

My only issue here is the water collecting on the opposite side of the drain at the rocker switch panel.

So I'll just drill a hole and find some sort of adequate fitting to put in there to handle it.

BEST !

RWS
Click to expand...
OK, good. That 100% clarifies it - and it least this way you know for sure you weren't just imagining it and that the area behind the rocker switch panel is likely nice and level.

Does a cablemaster weigh enough to cause this in a boat your size? Just looking at a picture of one I would estimate somewhere between 50lbs and 75lbs with the cord? I'm not doubting anyone - just surprised.

Was it already mentioned above about putting an equal weight on the other side of the boat? Or moving some items that you currently store elsewhere?
 
Something else to consider is the distance from centerline. Something the same size but twice as far away from the centerline has the same effect as having 2 on one side and 1 on the other side the same distance from centerline. Its a linear torque arm. torque equals force x moment arm distance. Even though its static movement wise, Mass x gravity is a force pushing vertically down. The further away from the midpoint, the greater the torque arm being exerted trying to twist the boat in that rotational direction.
 
Morgan Jane said:
Something else to consider is the distance from centerline. Something the same size but twice as far away from the centerline has the same effect as having 2 on one side and 1 on the other side the same distance from centerline. Its a linear torque arm. torque equals force x moment arm distance. Even though its static movement wise, Mass x gravity is a force pushing vertically down. The further away from the midpoint, the greater the torque arm being exerted trying to twist the boat in that rotational direction.
Click to expand...
We all learned that in third grade... fat kid and skinny kid on a seesaw. Fat kid slides forward off the seat and gets a wedgie sitting on the bar while the skinny kid teters off the back edge of the seat. :) :)
 
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