Getting started with Raymarine SeaTalk

M

mrsrobinson

Well-Known Member
Mar 9, 2006
7,704
Virginia
Boat Info
2001 380DA
Engines
Caterpillar 3126
I am considering a new head unit for the boat, folks have said "get NMEA". So I started researching NMEA last night, specifically Raymarine SeaTalk since all of my navigation stuff is Raymarine. It came with the boat, I am not paying to change it, it works.

It seems straight forward to me, and now I understand the terminology. The boat has factory installed depth/speed unit, GPS and auto pilot. I have a Lighthouse Axion MHD and digital radar. I'd like to connect the old with the new, and a head unit if/when I purchase one.

Any tips/tricks/gotchas I should be aware of? How about where to run the backbone, power, supply etc.? Please share links if you have them I can read/review.

Please do not turn this into a "Use Garmin you idiot" thread - lets keep it to Raymarine.
 
Know which seatalk you have? SeatalkNG is the same as NMEA2000, so you can just get the adaptor. Seatalk 1 is older and can also be connected to NG for some info to go back and forth. For instance, my old analog radar info doesn’t communicate with my 2000 equipment. Also you should just get Garmin! Just kidding, I have all raymarine devices from 2001 through 2022.
 
mrsrobinson said:
I am considering a new head unit for the boat, folks have said "get NMEA". So I started researching NMEA last night, specifically Raymarine SeaTalk since all of my navigation stuff is Raymarine. It came with the boat, I am not paying to change it, it works.

It seems straight forward to me, and now I understand the terminology. The boat has factory installed depth/speed unit, GPS and auto pilot. I have a Lighthouse Axion MHD and digital radar. I'd like to connect the old with the new, and a head unit if/when I purchase one.

Any tips/tricks/gotchas I should be aware of? How about where to run the backbone, power, supply etc.? Please share links if you have them I can read/review.

Please do not turn this into a "Use Garmin you idiot" thread - lets keep it to Raymarine.
Click to expand...
First of all you need to move away from NMEA0183 if you still use it on the boat. Do you have a mix of Seatalk generations? Seatalk1 and SeatalkNG? Sounds like it. Your OEM stuff would be Seatalk1 and your Axiom should have both Seatalk1 with a SeatalkNG port.
SeatalkNG is NMEA2000. Looking to the future for your boat as equipment is retired and new installed you will be integrating to NMEA 2000. So, I'd convert the Axiom SeatalkNG cabling to NMEA2000 Devicenet configuration and go from there. Your Axiom should be good to convert anything connected to it that is Seatalk1 to SeatalkNG/NMEA2000.

As an edit - I understand that Raymarine finally gave in and now uses DeviceNet connections for SeatalkNG so it's fully seamless to the standard NMEA 2000 cabling.
 
Go Garmin you idiot! :D

Just kidding, Garmin and/or Raymarine has no bearing on NMEA2000. Lets keep terms correct, NMEA is not a term it is an organization. NMEA2000 is a network with a protocol that uses PGN's, data packets to communicate on a network. NMEA0183 is another protocol that communicates marine datum to other devices but not on a network. It is connected to other devices via Tx/Rx wires. Like the autopilot is connected directly to the MFD and only talks to that device or receives information from that device.

NMEA2000, N2K as it is sometimes referred to, is a very robust communication protocol and is networked based like a PC network is. While 0183 is limited to what it can do, N2K has no limits in what it can do. As long as a device can connect to N2K it will be heard on the network. There are many facets to the protocol and a very steep learning curve is ahead of you. There is no such thing as I just want to do this ...

There basic differences when it comes to NMEA2000 networks and Raymarine SeaTalk and SeatalkNG. SeaTalk is basically NMEA0183 and SeaTalkNG is basically NMEA2000. I say basically because there are vast differences in the cabling. Raymarine chose to have proprietary connections and internal cabling. So you can't just buy standard N2K hardware and will to buy conversion cables as well.

Most of your setup might have a mix of SeaTalk and SeaTalkNG, Your vintage might only be SeaTalk depending on what the previous owner(s) have done. If you don't already have any SeaTalkNG connected, I would buy conversion cables for what you do have and use straight NMEA2000 cables and connectors.

What you ask here is so very complicated and has been covered in depth many times on this forum. I will try and find some of those threads and add to this post later.

But to give you an idea this is my setup as of last spring and it has grown since.

ReelNauti-N2K.jpg


EDIT: Some external links.

https://www.boatingmag.com/gear/basics-nmea-2000/
https://endige.com/2050/nmea-2000-pgns-deciphered/
http://www.interfacebus.com/NMEA-2000_Standard.html
https://copperhilltech.com/content/NMEA2K_Network_Design_v2.pdf
 
Boat is 2 hours away, I won't be there for a while, how do I check which I have? I don't really "use" anything per se, unless a PO did something.

Everything is factory except for the MHD/Radar installed by a PO.

The Raymarine "getting the old to talk to the new" research I did last night suggested I could use yellow backbone connectors to get the old to talk to the new.

https://www.raymarine.com/view/index-id=400.html

BTW - I don't see a lot of value in this, yet, for me, with how I use the boat. It's a bells and whistles nice to have, and if it's and not expensive, to do.
 
My config is Garmin and standard nmea 2000 but this suggestion should work for any nmea 2000. The backbone provides power to the devices connected. One thing I did was split my backbone so I have a section of tee’s at the helm and a section of tee’s in the ER. I used a power block so each section can be powered from different sources. The devices in the ER are powered from an ignition source and the other section is switched at the helm by my “electronics” circuit. This lets me turn on my engine gateways when the ignition is on and the devices I wan’t active while floating via the electronics switch, reducing battery draw while on the hook or floating. The block is in the ER so I have the option of having “electronics” switched devices in the ER.
 
mrsrobinson said:
... The Raymarine "getting the old to talk to the new" research I did last night suggested I could use yellow backbone connectors to get the old to talk to the new.

https://www.raymarine.com/view/index-id=400.html

BTW - I don't see a lot of value in this, yet, for me, with how I use the boat. It's a bells and whistles nice to have, and if it's and not expensive, to do.
Click to expand...

That link will explain a lot. There is no old and new, only 0183 and N2K. While N2K is more prevalent and should only be used for anything going forward, it is quite hard and expensive to get rid of the 0183. I did it a while ago and it cost many boat bucks to accomplish.

The color of the connector has nothing to do with what it does. What does matter with Raymarine is there is a yellow wire inside of the SeaTalkNG cables that carries an 0183 signal in it, so if converting over to N2K cables you MUST use the Raymarine converter.

To know what you have take pictures of the connectors on back of the devices and we can tell you. Or just look them up.

SeaTalk cable what RM uses for 0183:
upload_2023-1-6_9-40-40.png


SeaTalNG cable: This is a converion cable from SeaTalkNG to NMEA2000 (CAN bus) The STNG connector is on the left and the N2K is on the right.



upload_2023-1-6_9-43-9.png
 
 
Quick note that Seatalk 1 and NMEA 0183 aren’t really the same protocol (Seatalk NG and NMEA 2000 are). You can get a converter from Seatalk 1 to NMEA 0183, but the more modern thing to do is to get it to Seatalk NG (which is the same protocol as NMEA 2000 and you can link them by redoing the plugs or just getting the “device net” adapter). Lots of semantics, but there are ways to get all systems to talk, just not completely from the old analog stuff to the new digital stuff.
 
mrsrobinson said:
Boat is 2 hours away, I won't be there for a while, how do I check which I have? I don't really "use" anything per se, unless a PO did something.

Everything is factory except for the MHD/Radar installed by a PO.

The Raymarine "getting the old to talk to the new" research I did last night suggested I could use yellow backbone connectors to get the old to talk to the new.

https://www.raymarine.com/view/index-id=400.html

BTW - I don't see a lot of value in this, yet, for me, with how I use the boat. It's a bells and whistles nice to have, and if it's and not expensive, to do.
Click to expand...
I have a mix mosh as well and don't see myself as a heavy user of it as well. What I am thinking is just doing a NEMA with the new stuff and letting the older raymarine stuff stay separate. Previous owner installed a Garmin 742 with a transducer. So I'll probably hook that into a new Garmin unit for the radar. Add the fox marine gateways to the NEMA network, and then if I get the stereo upgrade, hook that in as well. I'll have a redundant system with the older Raymarine sea talk -- depth, Vhf, and auto pilot. Eventually may convert that, but no rush. Frankly too complicated for me at my age. :)
 
Golfman25 said:
I have a mix mosh as well and don't see myself as a heavy user of it as well. What I am thinking is just doing a NEMA with the new stuff and letting the older raymarine stuff stay separate. Previous owner installed a Garmin 742 with a transducer. So I'll probably hook that into a new Garmin unit for the radar. Add the fox marine gateways to the NEMA network, and then if I get the stereo upgrade, hook that in as well. I'll have a redundant system with the older Raymarine sea talk -- depth, Vhf, and auto pilot. Eventually may convert that, but no rush. Frankly too complicated for me at my age. :)
Click to expand...
Steve,

Yobub and I have worked with our Raymarine stuff and can help you out. I have a combination of Seatalk1 (Tridata and old radio) and SeatalkNG (Chartplotter) and the HD radar... with various converters etc.
 
superwa said:
Quick note that Seatalk 1 and NMEA 0183 aren’t really the same protocol (Seatalk NG and NMEA 2000 are). ...
Click to expand...

Why do you say that?

From everything I know about 0183 and SeaTalk they are exactly the same. RM threw in some over head but the datum is the same. And the use of those proprietary connectors as well vs. straight wires.

My Garmin MFD's still talk to the RM Autopilot via 0183 for course info. N2K is also used on the pilot head. It get's complicated when autopilots are involved. But Garmin is strictly 0183 out, no conversions what so ever to SeaTalk are needed. I did have to turn some data off to make the RM happy but that was part of the 0183 protocol.
 
Steve S said:
Steve,

Yobub and I have worked with our Raymarine stuff and can help you out. I have a combination of Seatalk1 (Tridata and old radio) and SeatalkNG (Chartplotter) and the HD radar... with various converters etc.
Click to expand...
Steve? What about me, the OP? ;)
 
This is what the boat came with, I'd like to keep it all, except for the VHF radio, which will be replaced:

Capture.PNG


Capture.PNG
 
mrsrobinson said:
This what the boat came with, I'd like to keep it all:

View attachment 138464

View attachment 138465
Click to expand...

To me it looks like everything there communicate(s) via SeaTalk (0183) and you only need to worry about NMEA2000 if you want to add/replace things with more modern devices. I say 0183 because that is vintage RM electronics (not the radar) and RM did not move towards N2K until Lighthouse III software (Mostly Axiom based).

Your MFD would need to be connected to a RM conversion kit for NMEA200 referenced in an earlier post and your good to go. I say good to go based on the new device communicating with the MFD. It would depend on what you were adding or replacing.

EDIT: The Radar communicates via Raynet (ethernet) cabling.
 
Only new device I plan to add is a Radio/Head unit. If that means multiple connectors, adapters, convertors, duct tape, this and that, it's probably not worth it to me.

So from the helm pics and replies, everything I have is SeaTalk1. And I need to purchase SeaTalk1 cables/connectors to connect them together? These?: https://www.amazon.com/Raymarine-1m-SeaTalk-Interconnect-Cable/dp/B000K2K4W2 and some kind of SeaTalk1 bus?

And if I want to connect something NMEA 2000 to it the MFD, for example a new head unit, I need, what?

If I could use red sippy cups and strings I'd be happy, I want to keep this simple and low cost.

If it costs me lets say $200 to connect everything with SeaTalk1 one, and $300 to convert to SeaTalkNG with the right converters/cables, then that it's a worthwhile investment, assuming it can be done.
 
I wouldn't create an N2K network just for a head unit. Just install a Fusion in the cabin and an NRX300 on the dash.

And I'd never tell you to buy Garmin....buy Furuno!
 
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