Having trouble understanding current events

Cdillerud said:
The NARA determined not government property.
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Huh?

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.
 
Cdillerud said:
The NARA determined not government property.
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And you don’t think there is one teeny tiny chance that they that have been out to get Trump for years, so much so they concocted a fake story to feed to the press and used the press to get warrants from the FISA court, would play politics with Trump?
 
OllieC said:
Huh?

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.
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Right. Clinton said the tapes were personal records and the archivist agreed. What’s the problem??

Keyhole satellite images are definitely not personal property. There’s no debate there.
 
MonacoMike said:
And you don’t think there is one teeny tiny chance that they that have been out to get Trump for years, so much so they concocted a fake story to feed to the press and used the press to get warrants from the FISA court, would play politics with Trump?
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No
 
MonacoMike said:
You being a hypocrite is what the problem is. Why is Trump not allowed the same authority? Oh I can answer this one for you, TDS…
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He is!!!! Like I said, his dirty notes to Ivanka are all his and not public property, unlike documents created by the CIA or DoD around national defense.
 
Cdillerud said:
Absolutely not, in fact the ruling and the decision by the archivist falls exactly in line with what Mike thinks should be applied to Trump. To a degree.

The Archivist made the determination that the Clinton tapes were personal records and thus did not seek to have them brought under NARA control. The Judge held there was no legal basis to force the NARA to gain custody of personal records that would then become public property as the plaintiff Judicial Watch requested in the suit.

NARA isn’t looking for custody of personal items that Trump possessed, but rather presidential records that belong to the government per the PRA. If the FBI did seize personal records, like passports, those should be returned after the filter.

Mike intimates that anything Trump de-classified becomes personal records but that is not true, they remain government property and fall under the custody of NARA regardless of classification.

If Trump had personal dirty
notes to Ivanka his sock drawer, the same ruling would and should apply as in the Clinton case. Those do not belong in the archive as public property.

The Presidential Records Act, passed in response to disputes over President Richard Nixon's records following his resignation from office, does include a procedure for the Archives to ask the Attorney General to try to recover official presidential records. But, Jackson wrote, "The statute does not mandate that NARA invoke this enforcement scheme but rather vests complete discretion with the agency to utilize that mechanism."

The agency has deemed FPOTUS to have been holding official presidential records and the archivist sought their return, at their discretion, to NARA custody per the mechanism afforded them by the PRA.

But tell me what I misread.
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You missed the fact that passports are easily identified, but yet where taken. Why would the FBI do that? Did they not know what a passport looked like? Why was the warrant so broad allowing seizure of virtually everything? It's all BS buddy.
 
OllieC said:
Huh?

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.
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Absolutely right. Trump can absolutely keep his personal records. Not official presidential records. I have said this all along.

Do you believe satellite images to be personal records?

if Clinton had the same sort of documents in his sock drawer he would have been subject to the same ask for return.
 
Cdillerud said:
No
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The test results are in doctor, the patient definitely has incurable TDS, so diagnosed, expect the patient to embrace Marxism, blindly follow the democrats, the media, and big corporations.

The only cure is killing the constitution but the patient will only become aware of the truth after the constitution is dead and buried…
 
Golfman25 said:
You missed the fact that passports are easily identified, but yet where taken. Why would the FBI do that? Did they not know what a passport looked like? Why was the warrant so broad allowing seizure of virtually everything? It's all BS buddy.
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Ok counselor.
 
MonacoMike said:
The test results are in doctor, the patient definitely has incurable TDS, so diagnosed, expect the patient to embrace Marxism, blindly follow the democrats, the media, and big corporations.

The only cure is killing the constitution but the patient will only become aware of the truth after the constitution is dead and buried…
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The whole world is out to get FPOTUS, the only honest man in politics. Right?
 
OllieC said:
Huh?

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.
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Also from the Berman decision:
"The PRA requires that all materials produced or received by the President, “to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately."
Taking the two quotes together, it's clear that the universes of presidential versus personal records was decided on no later than January 2021. It should have been a simple matter to perform the transfer and I'm sure NARA already knew what it should have received.
As to the up-front categorization of presidential versus personal, we have the Trump administration's own guidelines which amplify the PRA requirements: https://www.archives.gov/files/foia...ecords Act (Trump, 02-22-17)_redacted (1).pdf
So, we have a pretty broad definition right from the White House as to what should have gone to NARA.
To the extent that President Trump made and documented any personal record decisions contrary to his own directive prior to leaving office, he's at least got a case to argue about individual documents. Absent that, I don't see how he can now claim any documents that weren't tagged during his administration are personal. Certainly none of the classified documents could ever be claimed to be personal.
 
Cdillerud said:
Absolutely right. Trump can absolutely keep his personal records. Not official presidential records. I have said this all along.

Do you believe satellite images to be personal records?

if Clinton had the same sort of documents in his sock drawer he would have been subject to the same ask for return.
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Does it matter what I believe? Judge Amy Berman ruled already.

He has satellite images? Now you have proof - then why did you ask me if I had proof few days ago? o_O So now you are implying those are sensitive and classified. If they are sensitive and classified, how does the media have access to this information? Was it leaked or are they lying? You never answered that question. Seems to me if it was leaked, those images were safer in Mar-a-lago than with the FBI and DOJ. :rolleyes:

Donald Trump has claimed the information stollen during the raid was 'declassified and personal'. So there you have it.

I've already typed too much for these worthless threads.:(
 
alnav said:
Also from the Berman decision:
"The PRA requires that all materials produced or received by the President, “to the extent practicable, be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately."
Taking the two quotes together, it's clear that the universes of presidential versus personal records was decided on no later than January 2021. It should have been a simple matter to perform the transfer and I'm sure NARA already knew what it should have received.
As to the up-front categorization of presidential versus personal, we have the Trump administration's own guidelines which amplify the PRA requirements: https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/Memo to WH Staff Re Presidential Records Act (Trump, 02-22-17)_redacted (1).pdf
So, we have a pretty broad definition right from the White House as to what should have gone to NARA.
To the extent that President Trump made and documented any personal record decisions contrary to his own directive prior to leaving office, he's at least got a case to argue about individual documents. Absent that, I don't see how he can now claim any documents that weren't tagged during his administration are personal. Certainly none of the classified documents could ever be claimed to be personal.
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Also under the judges decision.

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.

Also under the judges decision.

“Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records,” the judge wrote.

....and in addition too Jacksons ruling.

“both Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama signed executive orders — which remain in force to this day — declaring that presidents have sweeping authority to declassify secrets and do not have to follow the mandatory declassification procedures all other government officials do.”

....now back to the regularly scheduled TDS nonsense.
 
OllieC said:
Also under the judges decision.

“Under the statutory scheme established by the PRA, the decision to segregate personal materials from Presidential records is made by the President, during the President’s term and in his sole discretion,” Jackson wrote.

Also under the judges decision.

“Since the President is completely entrusted with the management and even the disposal of Presidential records during his time in office, it would be difficult for this Court to conclude that Congress intended that he would have less authority to do what he pleases with what he considers to be his personal records,” the judge wrote.

....and in addition too Jacksons ruling.

“both Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama signed executive orders — which remain in force to this day — declaring that presidents have sweeping authority to declassify secrets and do not have to follow the mandatory declassification procedures all other government officials do.”

....now back to the regularly scheduled TDS nonsense.
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I guess all the DOJ lawyers don't understand the law at the same scholarly level as you do. #sad
 
Cdillerud said:
I guess all the DOJ lawyers don't understand the law at the same scholarly level as you do. #sad
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Never knew I had to be a scholar to understand paragraphs. I suppose I need to be a biologist to understand the sex of someone too.:rolleyes:
 
OllieC said:
Never knew I had to be a scholar to understand paragraphs. I suppose I need to be a biologist to understand the sex of someone too.:rolleyes:
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You are right, idiots who went to law school are total suckers. You obviously understand the nuance of the law without having to waste the time and money. I mean, kudos dude.

I have some data protection legal issues at my place of work, maybe you can tackle those in your spare time? We would pay you, of course.
 
Cdillerud said:
You are right, idiots who went to law school are total suckers. You obviously understand the nuance of the law without having to waste the time and money. I mean, kudos dude.

I have some data protection legal issues at my place of work, maybe you can tackle those in your spare time? We would pay you, of course.
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I guess you're a law scholar who does data recovery - my bad. I should have guessed with your 10 pages of cursing and arguments about law.

Ad hominem attacks, whining, and subject changes seem to be your forte.

carry on
 
Cdillerud said:
I guess all the DOJ lawyers don't understand the law at the same scholarly level as you do. #sad
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This post gets to the crux of the issue, you still believe in the integrity of the DOJ and FBI. I do not. They are going after a guy you fear and loathe so you are all good with it. The democrats are liars and you are just perpetuating their lies.

BTW, I fully expect, if this gets to judge Berman that she will rule differently this time, she is a proven ideologue not an impartial judge.
 
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