Inherited 1985 Sundancer 260 Project

Same situation. Kids are grown. Thought it could be fun to cruise the Lake Erie islands. Maybe up or down the Ohio River or some of the big lakes in Kentucky/Tennessee. Trips would probably be 1-3 nights.

Boat prices are tanking right now - either because a lot of folks bought during the lockdowns or because of gas prices. Just saw a boat similar to yours but running and with canvas and trailer for $4000. Canvas alone will run you $6000 for a camper top - and you’ll be lucky to get it done by August if it’s a reputable shop. The side panels aren’t too hard to DIY reupholster if you don’t want to go fancy - same for seats but it won’t be a pretty boat. The interior cushions will also run you about a grand. If the stern drive is blown, you’re looking at about $1500 - don’t waste your time on a used Alpha 1 unless you know exactly where it came from. I’m writing all of this from personal experience. I’ve easily put twice what the value of my boat is probably worth in the past few years but it has sentimental value plus it’s still in great shape and I know all that’s been done to it.

The boat will easily handle Erie - just watch weather reports obviously.

Thanks for the heads up on the market. Don't want to be literally and figuratively underwater with the boat. I'm going be up to it this weekend to spend a bit more time going through it. I'm going to pull out all the canvas and poles to assess completeness and condition. The interior looked to be in good condition as I don't think my Dad used it for a lot of overnight trips. I may also try to turn over the engine.

The biggest immediate concern at this point is the trailer. One of the cross members is rusted. I had a local welder come by to take a look and he said there were more issues than that. I may have to locate a good trailer, even if I end up selling it to get it moved.

Mr_Stop said:

Thanks for the heads up on the market. Don't want to be literally and figuratively underwater with the boat. I'm going be up to it this weekend to spend a bit more time going through it. I'm going to pull out all the canvas and poles to assess completeness and condition. The interior looked to be in good condition as I don't think my Dad used it for a lot of overnight trips. I may also try to turn over the engine.

The biggest immediate concern at this point is the trailer. One of the cross members is rusted. I had a local welder come by to take a look and he said there were more issues than that. I may have to locate a good trailer, even if I end up selling it to get it moved.

Click to expand...

Once again, speaking from experience, the best trailer I've found that will safely hold this type of boat was at least $1000, and it needed work. Sea Rays are sturdy and heavy boats and a really good trailer will cost at least $2000, usually a bit more - I'm trying to find one right now and it's been a frustrating experience. I was going to comment that the trailer might be worth more than your boat before you said it had issues.

This link won't last for long but take a look at some of the prices in this link - most of these boats are up and running:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/search/boo?query=sea+ray

The boat isn't too far from Detroit in Northeast Indiana. I do have it listed for sale: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1002779017295673. So far, not a ton of interest. I'm sure it's partially price as well as some combination of the shape of the trailer, it not running and overall condition.

I have another boat, in worst shape: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1203284347142233. A lot more interest in this one as I'm practically giving it away and in worse case, they end up with a trailer.

At some point I need to get the boat out as I'm selling the property. So either someone buys it as is and moves it, I make it trailer-able so it can move, I also fix it so someone will buy it or I can enjoy it, or I cut it up and put it into a dumpster.

Any rough idea on what size trailer this boat will need?

Like I mentioned, boats are kind of an emotional thing - they really don't make a lot of sense financially, especially up north, but that's pretty much anything material. I'm sure someone with the right skill set would love to buy it and your price isn't that bad, especially for a Sea Ray on the lakes. I've seen people do a lot with a lot less than you're offering.

As far as the trailer, the main thing I was told to look for was the axle capacity and that I should look for a six lug axle as opposed to a five lug. I thought rollers were better than bunks but apparently it's the opposite - bunks apparently are better.

Gotta be honest. 2 kind of boats, those with a huge monthly payment, those that get fixed up, this looks like neither.
Canvas, cockpit upholstery is crazy expensive. I’d rather replace an engine.
Look. I bought a nice 91 250 2 years ago, had immaculate cockpit upholstery and a brand new interior and all new $8k worth of canvas. i heard the PO spent $10k gutting the cabin down to the glass and putting all new in, it’s really nice. Real leather headliner. He had money.
For $10k. Since then I have put about $5k into outdrive, new water heater, bunch of stuff. Best I can get it maybe $12k.
You are so away from that. That boat will cost you a fortune to get in sellable order.
Part it out then scrap the rest. Sorry. The way it is.

Mr_Stop said:

The boat isn't too far from Detroit in Northeast Indiana. I do have it listed for sale: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1002779017295673. So far, not a ton of interest. I'm sure it's partially price as well as some combination of the shape of the trailer, it not running and overall condition.

I have another boat, in worst shape: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1203284347142233. A lot more interest in this one as I'm practically giving it away and in worse case, they end up with a trailer.

At some point I need to get the boat out as I'm selling the property. So either someone buys it as is and moves it, I make it trailer-able so it can move, I also fix it so someone will buy it or I can enjoy it, or I cut it up and put it into a dumpster.

Any rough idea on what size trailer this boat will need?

Click to expand...

Might want to contact this guy (from one of the CL links above)....
WANTED 18-35' PROJECT BOATS 1989 OR NEWER - $1 (MICHIGAN)
Wanted 18-35' PROJECT BOAT3 1989 OR NEWER

I'm looking for a 20-30' project boats 1989 or newer. Must be complete with engine/engines prefer with trailer, structural issues soft deck, stringers etc. Email me what you have! Thanks


Also, if you do end up proceeding, I'd be doing the canvas LAST. If you know anyone that can sew, you could rig a workable and decent looking tonneau cover out of Sunbrella for when the boat is not in use. I also know a canvas "shop" (husband and wife operation) that do some pretty good work for very reasonable costs and they are located not too far north of the MI/OH border. I'll see if I can find their contact info and PM it to you.

Cheap Guy said:

Boat prices are tanking right now - either because a lot of folks bought during the lockdowns or because of gas prices. Just saw a boat similar to yours but running and with canvas and trailer for $4000. Canvas alone will run you $6000 for a camper top - and you’ll be lucky to get it done by August if it’s a reputable shop. The side panels aren’t too hard to DIY reupholster if you don’t want to go fancy - same for seats but it won’t be a pretty boat. The interior cushions will also run you about a grand. If the stern drive is blown, you’re looking at about $1500 - don’t waste your time on a used Alpha 1 unless you know exactly where it came from. I’m writing all of this from personal experience. I’ve easily put twice what the value of my boat is probably worth in the past few years but it has sentimental value plus it’s still in great shape and I know all that’s been done to it.

The boat will easily handle Erie - just watch weather reports obviously.

Click to expand...

Definitely not tanking around here yet. Like autos, 5-10 year old boats are still selling for more than they were when new if clean and in good condition. New motors are still 6 mos+ away and probably a big contributor to that.
Hopefully the op will be able to get this one home, running, and wet for some fun on the water. Being handy with tools can make that possible.

Thanks. I'm extremely handy. I can fix about anything that can be, or is worth fixing. I'm a home remodeler by trade so woodwork/carpentry is not an issue. I perform all my own maintenance and repairs on cars, bikes, house, electronics, tools, etc. I can even sew. Outside of where it stands in my long list of projects, I'm not too worried about being able to make it run or look good.

My biggest driver is that I don't really want to see it thrown in the dump if it can be saved. I'm going to try an make that decision this weekend.

Took a closer look at the boat this afternoon.

The trailer needs a new tongue, winch riser and cross member m. The rest of the trailer looks to be ok. The previous owner tolde the trailer has 10,000 lbs axles.

I have the canvas and poles. The poles need repair. The canvas top is pretty hard and has shrunk (won't fit the snaps on the windshield). The side canvas looks in good shape and barely used. Inside the cabin, a lot of the wood and carpet will need replaced. Cushions may be salvageable, but probably not. Then there is the unknown running state of the boat and whether the stringers are in good condition.

I have decided, as much as I would love to see it saved, it's too much of a project for me.

smart

I'm certain the trailer doesn't have 10,000lb AXLES... it may have a pair of 5k axles, but more likely they're a pair of 4500lb axles, and the trailer's GVW is rated for 10k by virtue of 9K on the axles, and 1k on the tongue. Count the lug nuts, that gives a pretty good idea- a 5-lug axle doesn't carry as much as a 6, which doesn't carry as much as an 8, 10, or 12-lug axle.

A 25ft'er like this, is an IDEAL boat for wandering the inland waterways. They maneuver well, and have a shallow-enough draft to gunkhole the Ohio, Tennessee, Missisippi, Arkansas, Illinois... any river with locks and dams, it's perfect. You'll be cozy with two adults, and fine with a couple kids, especially if you beach and set up a tent. It will get better fuel economy, and get into and out of places better than a 27+, it will fit under low bridges, and manage shallow water fairly well, even if you have to jump in, wade, and give it a push sometimes. You won't have the comfort of large AC, a generator, etc., but the fuel cost will offset, and many places you go will have B&B opportunities to get a little humanity when you need it.

It WILL be okay on larger waterways, as others noted, prepare for, and respect the weather conditions... something a sailor-in-you is probably already in-tune-with.

That said... I took a quick look at the pictures, here's what I see:

Outdrive is off. Outdrives don't come off without a reason.

Engine has all the MCM260R plastic, but the valve covers are NOT original. I see there's no belt on the power steering pump, and wires on the harness on left are disconnected. When this kind of thing shows up, it says to me that someone had the original engine out, and put in an automotive engine in it's place.

The hull might be perfectly fine, or it may have a soft transom (water seeping in through the outside, or a bilge full of standing water from being uncovered saturates the transom plywood and stringers).

The apparent risk level, from this observation, is enough for me (rather experienced at these kinds of situations, don't ask me how...) to say that it is NOT a project that you'll ever come out ahead, or even zero, on.

So the next echelon is Johnny Cash style- buying the boat, one-piece-at-a-time. Add up the cost of each piece, and once done, ask yourself if you'd have MORE boat for the money, that if you bought a 'new' one.

I'm not saying this is bad, it's just simple project economics.

Let's say someone brought this to me, and they really liked the lines, the size, and how it was laid-out for THEIR needs, and they looked at other NEW boats, and other USED boats, and really didn't like anything ELSE. That means this model and year are what THEY want. I'm good with that, people don't need to tell anyone else WHY they want what they do, that's THEIRS to be, not mine.

The first thing I'd do, is go looking for a better start. Mebbie I could find one with a good hull, fair interior, and mebbie a good-enough-top to make a pattern, but a bad drive, or mebbie good drive, but soft transom... or good drive and transom, but shot interior. Then I'd figure out the itemized cost for reviving everything it needs, to suit their purpose.

I'd estimate 6K for an engine and drive... a complete gimbal housing rehab, upper and lower drive, crate engine, new exhaust manifolds and elbows, rebuild the distributor and carb... or if I could get a low-hour 5.7 Vortec with 2bbl MerCarb, I'd snag THAT instead, and rebuild the lower unit. I'd replace the steering with a hydraulic, and while the engine is out, set in a new transducer for depthfinder, new bilge pumps, and epoxy the exposed plywood... I'd also replace the transom plate gaskets, and make sure the steering arm and gimbal ring were in good shape. Drain and flush the fuel tank, replace all the flexible lines. Replace all the battery cables, battery switch, and boxes, new batteries, and a new prop... then float and test it... look for any problems with running.

Next up, is solve the interior. Start by pulling out all the interior pieces, marking them, then pulling off the outdrive, setting the boat down on foam blocks in my driveway, and putting on a frame, and shrink-wrapping a cover on, get the interior dry and clean. Rip out the headliner, get it down to bare, then clean it out good.

Budget 10K for a complete interior, and 5K for a top, including side screens, and finally, a stout storage cover.

While it's sitting on blocks, either repair or replace the trailer suitable for your needs. If all you'll do is store it through winter, the trailer doesn't need to be fantastic, but if you're gonna pull it south for the winter, it needs to be a roadworthy beast.

When you're all done, you'll probably have 25K in it.

Here's where the REAL economics is:

You probably couldn't SELL it for 25K...
...but you probably couldn't buy a BETTER BOAT... for just 25K...

And the money you've spent, didn't happen all-at-once, it went out 'incrementally'. The difference there is... that you do it on a cash-flow basis, you do all your own labor, and you LEARN the boat INTIMATELY.

IMO, the single WORST thing someone can do, is walk into a dealer, and buy a brand-new-boat, finance it, and plop it in the water. First of all, you feed yourself to the money-sharks by having to buy and insure something that's already extremely expensive, and second of all, you don't KNOW the boat.

I'm certain, that if you're an experienced sailor, you recognize that intimate knowledge of the craft has FAR GREATER VALUE, than having a substantial insurance premium. The intimate knowledge allows you to detect and address problems BEFORE they get serious, while the insurance only dispenses a portion of the cash AFTER things have gone wrong.

I won't put words into another's mouth, but I don't get the gut feeling that you're into this boat enough to want to make that magnitude of a project committment of it, and the way project-boats are, unless you 1) go all the way THROUGH with the committment and 2) KEEP the boat after, the circumstance is simply not favorable.

And this is coming from someone who knows this a bit too much. ;-) The best future for this old boat, is to find THAT PERSON who WILL... and if I was in your shoes, I would not be concerned at getting anything for it, aside from a new home. DO gather all documents, registrations, titles, etc., so that whoever DOES pick up the pieces, doesn't have that precipice to mount, also.

DaveKamp - that was an awesome write-up. I really like the reference about the cost of a new boat. People ask why I haven’t bought a new one in over 25 years - it’s because I like what I have, I have sentimental reasons, and from a financial point, I could totally overhaul/replace my drivetrain (canvas and interior upholstery were replaced two seasons ago) and still come out much cheaper than buying anything new or younger comparable. That’s with the knowledge that I’d still have a boat not worth the sum of the parts.

Whenever I have a tool, electronics or equipment that’s in good shape but I no longer need, I try to sell or give it to someone who I feel will appreciate it and actually have a use for it. Hopefully whatever the OP decides, the boat will be appreciated again.

Thanks for your replies. I agree with everything you say. I wish it were just one or two things. It would have been more manageable a project and the work and cost would come over time Hopefully whoever takes it will enjoy it.

I feel the same way @Cheap Guy and have a similar philosophy about cars. My cars are older and paid off. If something breaks, I can fix it. Even if it costs me several thousand dollars, which rarely happens, it is far less expensive than a new car.

Boats are like Jeeps, bicycles, and bass guitars... If you bought it off the shelf, and use it as-is, it's because what it offers in that state, is what you wanted. After that, there's the 'bolt-on' crowd, that find and buy whatever they think they want or need... and after that, there's a guy or gal with a cutting torch, grinder, welder, and a big rock to bend up whatever bracket they want. I'm in the latter category. My boats, Jeeps, bicycles, and guitars are all butchered to suit... and for the most part, they 'look' good... but if they look 'bad', it ain't because they're weak... it's because they're 'regularly tested'.

I don't remember what I cut up in order to build this gadget, but anyone needing to do boat work in a cramped shop might find it very handy:



4.80-8's all around, the fronts are spaced close, and I used a 5th spindle vertically to serve as the pivot for fronts. ON a concrete floor, a guy can easily pull-by-hand, and pivot within it's length, anything smaller than 20ft. It sits low enough so that climbing in and out is very easy. With outdrive off, a 24x24 garage allows ample workspace around the boat.

Mr_Stop said:

I'm not sure if I'm brave, or just a glutton for punishment.

The boats up for sale. So that would probably be my first and preferred course. The original owner PM'd me. She was deeply saddened by the state of the boat as she had a lot of good memories. It was heavily optioned with some owner installed upgrades and well cared for until my father purchased it in 2002 I believe.

I don't think it will take much to get the motor at least running. The interior actually appears to be in good condition. I'm going to pull out the canvas on my next visit and see what condition its in.

I have tapped along the hull that I could reach, and haven't found any obvious dead spots. If the mechanical's and canvas check out, I might have a surveyor come out to inspect the hull.

Question: How comfortable is the 250 for cruising size wise? Is it more a day-tripper/overnight boat or could you do an extended trip for 2 people?

Click to expand...

What ever happened with the boat? If you restored it, details and pictures please!

CapTwiggy said:

What ever happened with the boat? If you restored it, details and pictures please!

Click to expand...

I believe it's sold. Some guy is supposed to working to shore up the trailer and get it out of there. He intends to fix and restore the boat. Wish it didn't need so much work and time, but I have waaaayyyy too many projects as it is.