You diesel guys sure aren't kicking our butts quite as badly this year

The diesel system management article has been mentioned again raising a few questions, so I will attempt to address them here:

1. In almost all parts of the country Off-road diesel is exactly the same fuel as on-road diesel because refining fuel these days follows the same formula and methodology everywhere in the U.S. and there is only one distribution network of tanks, pumps hoses, nozzels, and tankers, and storage facilities. The main difference, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, between on and off road fuel, is that red dye is added at the wholesale level before off-road fuel is delivered to the retailer. Hardly enough difference to warrant doubling the distribution hardware network. However, in some locations where temperatures get really cold, an antigen additive is also adde to the raw fuel stocks.

2. The additives recommended in the Fuel Management Article are safe to use. I asked the each manufacturer about over-treatment and the maximum recommended dosage. And, you cannot over treat with any of the recommended products.

3. Many of us have access to Valvetect fuel at local marinas who are Valvetect dealers. Valvetect biocide and fuel treatment is added at the retailer after the fuel is pumped into his tanks. I've watched this process in several Florida marinas and it is about as precise as pouring the Valvetect additive into an empty milk jug with a black line drawn on the side. Furthermore, Valvetect will not publish the exact effect on fuel quality that the Valvetect additives have. For that reason, I continue to use and recommend additives upon which we have verified the effect on fuel quality with the added safety factor that we are not over-treating our fuel or over-paying for additives.
 
fwebster said:
The diesel system management article has been mentioned again raising a few questions, so I will attempt to address them here:

1. In almost all parts of the country Off-road diesel is exactly the same fuel as on-road diesel because refining fuel these days follows the same formula and methodology everywhere in the U.S. and there is only one distribution network of tanks, pumps hoses, nozzels, and tankers, and storage facilities. The main difference, as was pointed out earlier in this thread, between on and off road fuel, is that red dye is added at the wholesale level before off-road fuel is delivered to the retailer. Hardly enough difference to warrant doubling the distribution hardware network. However, in some locations where temperatures get really cold, an antigen additive is also adde to the raw fuel stocks.

2. The additives recommended in the Fuel Management Article are safe to use. I asked the each manufacturer about over-treatment and the maximum recommended dosage. And, you cannot over treat with any of the recommended products.

3. Many of us have access to Valvetect fuel at local marinas who are Valvetect dealers. Valvetect biocide and fuel treatment is added at the retailer after the fuel is pumped into his tanks. I've watched this process in several Florida marinas and it is about as precise as pouring the Valvetect additive into an empty milk jug with a black line drawn on the side. Furthermore, Valvetect will not publish the exact effect on fuel quality that the Valvetect additives have. For that reason, I continue to use and recommend additives upon which we have verified the effect on fuel quality with the added safety factor that we are not over-treating our fuel or over-paying for additives.
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Hi Frank
Part of the discussion was, some on this forum are burning No 2 Fuel oil (home heating oil) in their boats based upon recommendations that there is no difference between that and pump diesel. What are the impacts of that? I was concerned about viscosity, purity, and Cetane.
Tom
 
Captsteve427 said:
After some research..... the best price local to me for home heating oil is $5.89 per gallon. The price at my yacht club is $5.39, before my $0.25 membership discount, so I'm sticking to that supply for now.

I get an error when trying to open the link to the thread about Franks treatment plan?! Is it correct?
Click to expand...
You need to be a supporting member of CSR to view those sections where this is located.
 
Captsteve427 said:
After some research..... the best price local to me for home heating oil is $5.89 per gallon. The price at my yacht club is $5.39, before my $0.25 membership discount, so I'm sticking to that supply for now.

I get an error when trying to open the link to the thread about Franks treatment plan?! Is it correct?
Click to expand...
Steve S said:
You need to be a supporting member of CSR to view those sections where this is located.
Click to expand...
Yep, and that article alone is well worth the price of admission.
 
ttmott said:
Hi Frank
Part of the discussion was, some on this forum are burning No 2 Fuel oil (home heating oil) in their boats based upon recommendations that there is no difference between that and pump diesel. What are the impacts of that? I was concerned about viscosity, purity, and Cetane.
Tom
Click to expand...

Tom,

I have to be careful with this answer because local storage conditions have a lot to do with local fuel quality. My experience in Tennessee with farm and construction equipment is that #2 thru#4 fuel oil is lower quality than Diesel fuel. The fuel oils available on the coast is not used for home heating and generally sold to tug boat operators, long line fishermen, and coastal container ships who never shut down engines once they are running and up to temperature. The fuel quality is horrible (May not be the case in northern locations where homes are heated with fuel oil). I never considered putting it in a recreational boat's tanks. Diesel comes off the refining process earlier so it is less viscous and has higher cetane numbers than #2 thru #4 fuel oils. There is also a greater risk of contaminents induced in the storage process with fuel oils.

Cetane is a misunderstood variable, frequently confused with octane in gasoline. In diesel fuel, cetane is a measure of how easily diesel fuel will explode when compressed. The effect on a marine diesel is that higher cetane fuel explodes easier when the air in the fuel charge is compressed. That leads to less diesel knock (quieter running) and cleaner and more efficient burning of the diesel fuel. Diesel typically has a cetane rating of 15-25 and fuel oil is significantly lower. Adding Power Service Diesel Kleen will raise cetane by about 6 numbers so it makes a significant difference.


Frank
 
fwebster said:
Tom,

I have to be careful with this answer because local storage conditions have a lot to do with local fuel quality. My experience in Tennessee with farm and construction equipment is that #2 thru#4 fuel oil is lower quality than Diesel fuel. The fuel oils available on the coast is not used for home heating and generally sold to tug boat operators, long line fishermen, and coastal container ships who never shut down engines once they are running and up to temperature. The fuel quality is horrible (May not be the case in northern locations where homes are heated with fuel oil). I never considered putting it in a recreational boat's tanks. Diesel comes off the refining process earlier so it is less viscous and has higher cetane numbers than #2 thru #4 fuel oils. There is also a greater risk of contaminents induced in the storage process with fuel oils.

Cetane is a misunderstood variable, frequently confused with octane in gasoline. In diesel fuel, cetane is a measure of how easily diesel fuel will explode when compressed. The effect on a marine diesel is that higher cetane fuel explodes easier when the air in the fuel charge is compressed. That leads to less diesel knock (quieter running) and cleaner and more efficient burning of the diesel fuel. Diesel typically has a cetane rating of 15-25 and fuel oil is significantly lower. Adding Power Service Diesel Kleen will raise cetane by about 6 numbers so it makes a significant difference.


Frank
Click to expand...
Thanks Frank - clear and concise.
Tom
 
CAT publishes the fuel specifications for their engines and states they can burn “a wide variety of fuels”, including biodiesel and other alternative fuels. As long as it meets the specifications, they say go for it. This would make sense as these engines are in service all over the globe. The do spend a lot of words talking about making sure it’s well filtered!

the downside is different fuels have an effect on the longevity of the engine.

If you know what your doing…go for it.
 
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Captsteve427 said:
Brian - Who do you use? My buddy in the slip next to me has been considering having fuel delivered and asked me if I'm interested. Isn't what your getting the same #2 home heating fuel? Any repercussions from the use of it and do you use any additive with it?
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Steve, I used either Rising Tide Fuel (Gene), 631-374-7361 or Direct Marine Fuel (Rob or Teresa). They both deliver ULSD directly from the terminal in Holtsville so I know it's fresh fuel. I've used Rising Tide exclusively since I had the MANs as his fuel has the Valvtect additive package. Sometimes it's undyed, sometimes it's dyed red, not sure why but they charge me the same price either way, which is most typically 10-15 cents a gallon less than ULSD at the local gas station, which in turn is about $1 or more less a gallon than the local marina. Put 700 gallons a fill up in your boat at a time, 4 or 5 times a year, and it adds up. I know home heating oil has a lower cetane number and likely has lower lubricity and likely higher particle counts. I've never used home heating oil so I really don't know what effect, if any, there would be. Engines, to me, are too expensive to experiment with to save a few sheckles. I've never had an issue with any of my diesels (QSC500, QSM11 and MAN900CRM) with these fuels and other than adding StarTron at the winterization fuel up. I've not used any other additives. I am not sure if truck deliveries are allowed in Nassau County any longer.
 
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bmac said:
Steve, I used either Rising Tide Fuel (Gene), 631-374-7361 or Direct Marine Fuel (Rob or Teresa). They both deliver ULSD directly from the terminal in Holtsville so I know it's fresh fuel. I've used Rising Tide exclusively since I had the MANs as his fuel has the Valvtect additive package. Sometimes it's undyed, sometimes it's dyed red, not sure why but they charge me the same price either way, which is most typically 10-15 cents a gallon less than ULSD at the local gas station, which in turn is about $1 or more less a gallon than the local gas station. Put 700 gallons a fill up in your boat at a time, 4 or 5 times a year, and it adds up. I know home heating oil has a lower cetane number and likely has lower lubricity and likely higher particle counts. I've never used home heating oil so I really don't know what effect, if any, there would be. Engines, to me, are too expensive to experiment with to save a few sheckles. I've never had an issue with any of my diesels (QSC500, QSM11 and MAN900CRM) with these fuels and other than adding StarTron at the winterization fuel up. I've not used any other additives. I am not sure if truck deliveries are allowed in Nassau County any longer.
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Thanks for the info Brian. I’ll call them and inquire further.
 
Yeah, agreed, it won't slow me down this year since I just got the boat and plan to use the heck out of her. Might have to work an extra year though ;)
 
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