410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

My fun came to an annoying end today. Boat ran fine but backing into the slip I heard a clunk. When I spin the starboard shaft by hand I can feel clunking.

it is under the boat for sure because when I disconnect the shaft from the transmission and spin the shaft freely it does the same thing. I didn’t go crazy on the nuts, but they should have been tight and after pushing the boat around at 30mph I have to imagine the taper would have set.

I’m pulling it out at 2pm tomorrow to get a look, but I’m fearing something broke in the shaft/prop/keyway.
 
Strecker25 said:
My fun came to an annoying end today. Boat ran fine but backing into the slip I heard a clunk. When I spin the starboard shaft by hand I can feel clunking.

it is under the boat for sure because when I disconnect the shaft from the transmission and spin the shaft freely it does the same thing. I didn’t go crazy on the nuts, but they should have been tight and after pushing the boat around at 30mph I have to imagine the taper would have set.

I’m pulling it out at 2pm tomorrow to get a look, but I’m fearing something broke in the shaft/prop/keyway.
Click to expand...
Could it be something as simple as a loose zinc?
 
Riptide III said:
Could it be something as simple as a loose zinc?
Click to expand...

No shaft zincs. I can very clearly feel the prop (or what I assume to be the prop) when I spin it.

I didn’t wedge any wood or anything to tighten the nut, so maybe it somehow backed both off. My understanding is the nuts are not holding the prop on at all, so I’m wondering if they weren’t seated properly to begin with.

i lapped the props to the shaft and got good contact but for some reason I had concerns on the prop location on the shaft. So much so that I even took a picture before I splashed. They are equal in terms of location on the shaft, with the starboard side possibly being a couple mm further aft than the port.

the boat had forward momentum (gear speed) when I put it into reverse and that’s when it clunked.

my going theory is that the prop wasn’t seated in the taper all the way, the shakedown cruise set it properly, then the jolt into reverse backed it off the taper into the now loose jamb nut

purely speculation until tomorrow afternoon.

The shaft keys do still have the locator pins so they “should” be in the correct place in the groove

this is port side (no clunk)
92272479-4B6D-4034-BFC5-C9D9AA65ABBC.jpeg


And the starboard (clunk)
0507793A-1FBD-4366-B951-4A6797B3F7C4.jpeg
 
Strecker25 said:
No shaft zincs. I can very clearly feel the prop (or what I assume to be the prop) when I spin it.

I didn’t wedge any wood or anything to tighten the nut, so maybe it somehow backed both off. My understanding is the nuts are not holding the prop on at all, so I’m wondering if they weren’t seated properly to begin with.

i lapped the props to the shaft and got good contact but for some reason I had concerns on the prop location on the shaft. So much so that I even took a picture before I splashed. They are equal in terms of location on the shaft, with the starboard side possibly being a couple mm further aft than the port.

the boat had forward momentum (gear speed) when I put it into reverse and that’s when it clunked.

my going theory is that the prop wasn’t seated in the taper all the way, the shakedown cruise set it properly, then the jolt into reverse backed it off the taper into the now loose jamb nut

purely speculation until tomorrow afternoon.

The shaft keys do still have the locator pins so they “should” be in the correct place in the groove

this is port side (no clunk)
View attachment 125632

And the starboard (clunk)
View attachment 125633
Click to expand...
Make sure to check the fit with machinist dye if in fact the props came loose. That action can wobble out the bore on the props. Those two nuts really have to be cranked down; I use a block of wood between the hull and one blade carefully applying torque.
 
I had my port come loose, very similar. I was much more aggressive putting them back together this year. I heated up the hub slightly the slammed the prop onto the shaft follow by aggressively tightening the prop into place with a 2x4 bracing. I used the big nut to seat it, then swapped to the final configuration of small nut first then big nut. So far so good.

Now getting it back off next time...
 
ttmott said:
Make sure to check the fit with machinist dye if in fact the props came loose. That action can wobble out the bore on the props. Those two nuts really have to be cranked down; I use a block of wood between the hull and one blade carefully applying torque.
Click to expand...

Yessir, armed with my prussian blue and valve grinding compound for tomorrow for a quick re-lapping as necessary.

A buddy of mine used his 2" deep well socket and some heat to smash it onto the taper, similar to Dave's method above.

I'm going to pull the nuts off both sides, set them properly, and have the yard demonstrate their tightening method so we leave nothing to chance.

never a dull moment....but this is why I do solo shakedown cruises every spring and as early in the year as possible. It gives me a chance to fix all the things that are broken that I don't know about yet
 
Harbor Freight has a 4 or 5 foot breaker bar that perfect for getting it torqued tight...
 
dtfeld said:
I had my port come loose, very similar. I was much more aggressive putting them back together this year. I heated up the hub slightly the slammed the prop onto the shaft follow by aggressively tightening the prop into place with a 2x4 bracing. I used the big nut to seat it, then swapped to the final configuration of small nut first then big nut.
Click to expand...
Seems like it's gonna be pretty F'n tight when it cools down. Not so sure that's a good thing.
I'm thinking undue stress, as opposed to proper clamping force.
 
I don't know about heating the prop and letting it shrink onto the taper; seems unnecessary and potentially putting very high stresses in the prop hub. I understand that first the prop bore and shaft taper need to match and be in contact at least 70 percent of the surface area. My mechanic laps the two until it is almost 100%. After cleaning up the dye he dry-fits without the key and marks the shaft where the prop lands. Then back apart, install the key and prop and tighten the big nut ensuring the prop is at the mark. Then removes the big nut and installs the half-nut; tighten then install the big nut again and tighten it. As far as how tight? I had a 3 foot cheater on the wrench and put all of my weight against it while he was watching. I'd say around 6 hundred foot pounds for the nuts on the 2 1/2 inch shafts on the 52DB.
The last time done General Propeller had the shafts and props and did the fit. We dyed it when putting the boat back together and it was absolutely perfect.
Anyhow, that's how we have been doing it on all of my boats.
 
Strecker25 said:
Yessir, armed with my prussian blue and valve grinding compound for tomorrow for a quick re-lapping as necessary.

A buddy of mine used his 2" deep well socket and some heat to smash it onto the taper, similar to Dave's method above.

I'm going to pull the nuts off both sides, set them properly, and have the yard demonstrate their tightening method so we leave nothing to chance.

never a dull moment....but this is why I do solo shakedown cruises every spring and as early in the year as possible. It gives me a chance to fix all the things that are broken that I don't know about yet
Click to expand...
Damn I hope it’s something simple
 
Good luck today Ryan, hope it's something simple.

I know I have seen this question before but honestly to lazy to look for the answer :D:D:D. How are the vinyl panels on the inside of the arch under the speakers attached. I am in the process of caulking the boat throughout the summer and noticed this weekend that they need to come off to a good job around the arch. TIA
 
Ezsteps said:
Good luck today Ryan, hope it's something simple.

I know I have seen this question before but honestly to lazy to look for the answer :D:D:D. How are the vinyl panels on the inside of the arch under the speakers attached. I am in the process of caulking the boat throughout the summer and noticed this weekend that they need to come off to a good job around the arch. TIA
Click to expand...

thanks!

Ours are the plastic Christmas trees like on car door panels. A good plastic putty knife and some finesse will get it off without damaging them.
 
techmitch said:
Seems like it's gonna be pretty F'n tight when it cools down. Not so sure that's a good thing.
I'm thinking undue stress, as opposed to proper clamping force.
Click to expand...

I should probably clarify, I warmed it up as it was cold that day. Probably equivalent to installing it on a warm summer day. If it was over 80* I'd be shocked...
 
ttmott said:
I don't know about heating the prop and letting it shrink onto the taper; seems unnecessary and potentially putting very high stresses in the prop hub. I understand that first the prop bore and shaft taper need to match and be in contact at least 70 percent of the surface area. My mechanic laps the two until it is almost 100%. After cleaning up the dye he dry-fits without the key and marks the shaft where the prop lands. Then back apart, install the key and prop and tighten the big nut ensuring the prop is at the mark. Then removes the big nut and installs the half-nut; tighten then install the big nut again and tighten it. As far as how tight? I had a 3 foot cheater on the wrench and put all of my weight against it while he was watching. I'd say around 6 hundred foot pounds for the nuts on the 2 1/2 inch shafts on the 52DB.
The last time done General Propeller had the shafts and props and did the fit. We dyed it when putting the boat back together and it was absolutely perfect.
Anyhow, that's how we have been doing it on all of my boats.
Click to expand...

This is exactly as I did it. I used prussian blue and valve grinding paste. I had pretty good contact.
 
Ezsteps said:
Good luck today Ryan, hope it's something simple.

I know I have seen this question before but honestly to lazy to look for the answer :D:D:D. How are the vinyl panels on the inside of the arch under the speakers attached. I am in the process of caulking the boat throughout the summer and noticed this weekend that they need to come off to a good job around the arch. TIA
Click to expand...

On my 1998 the speakers are mounted in that vinyl piece. Speaker has to be removed and there are studs with nuts inside, 2 if I recall correctly. Tight fit, need a skinny arm.
 
If this has already been addressed please direct me to the post, I was not able to find anything.
The tracks for the sliding entry door to my cabin on the 410 Sundancer are broken and worn. I found the tracks online. Has anyone posted a guide on how to remove the door and replace the tracks? It looks like you might remove the vinyl door trim and ceiling panels to gain access but I dont see any screws and do not want to start pulling without having a clue. Any guidance is appreciated.
 
scott1956 said:
If this has already been addressed please direct me to the post, I was not able to find anything.
The tracks for the sliding entry door to my cabin on the 410 Sundancer are broken and worn. I found the tracks online. Has anyone posted a guide on how to remove the door and replace the tracks? It looks like you might remove the vinyl door trim and ceiling panels to gain access but I dont see any screws and do not want to start pulling without having a clue. Any guidance is appreciated.
Click to expand...
Can you post a picture? I replaced the rollers on my cabin door last year and it was a simple job, but I dont know whether the tracks in my 98 400 are the same as in your 410.

On my 400 you can see the screws in the tracks, pull the screws and the tracks come out easily to expose the wheels, which are what needed replacement.

This was one of the easiest and most satisfying repairs I've done on my boat. If your cabin slider is hinky at all, I recommend it.
 
Crisis averted, boat lifted and the starboard nuts were sitting on the cotter pin, prop backed off the taper. We wedged a 6x6 and cranked the shit out of them, set it with the big nut and then replaced with small and set both. I picked up 1/8-1/4” set on both sides.

$100 to the yard guys and all is well.
 
Strecker25 said:
No shaft zincs. I can very clearly feel the prop (or what I assume to be the prop) when I spin it.

I didn’t wedge any wood or anything to tighten the nut, so maybe it somehow backed both off. My understanding is the nuts are not holding the prop on at all, so I’m wondering if they weren’t seated properly to begin with.

i lapped the props to the shaft and got good contact but for some reason I had concerns on the prop location on the shaft. So much so that I even took a picture before I splashed. They are equal in terms of location on the shaft, with the starboard side possibly being a couple mm further aft than the port.

the boat had forward momentum (gear speed) when I put it into reverse and that’s when it clunked.

my going theory is that the prop wasn’t seated in the taper all the way, the shakedown cruise set it properly, then the jolt into reverse backed it off the taper into the now loose jamb nut

purely speculation until tomorrow afternoon.

The shaft keys do still have the locator pins so they “should” be in the correct place in the groove

this is port side (no clunk)
View attachment 125632

And the starboard (clunk)
View attachment 125633
Click to expand...

And then the fight started...

y4mklmjTBwhka0CY3xVTFc1XK1f91qWLVaeaQVCuzdtCm1iWH60-QHxiz9SpnPsuq2nY6SpsJLiyWIonml7JW11bCr5Qb7beYolvVYW94zztsAJn-RF-v83tSMRXgzMUYjypEbO6mI9FKRbv2MEpTEUUlvL3x0vz9H8MON04tu1nznlfecQA_x_GDcdvqB-VO7ndXq4Abzvgk56UWrdwbIQiCs8hgHll6qMaY2Fwa83VXU
 
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