Dripless seal wobble?

ttmott said:
The mount adjustments nearest to the coupling flange on the gear are to center the coupling flange with respect to the shaft log to ensure the dripless seal boot is not tweeked to one side. Those are set when the shaft is installed and the seal boot not yet in place to center the shaft then they should never need to be moved again unless the boat is taken apart again. Setting those are always out of the water with the log open. The motor mounts on the other side (furthest away from the coupling flange) are what are used to move up, down, and side to side to align the mating faces of the couplers.
Now - on the flange faces - both faces are machined parallel to ensure the bolt heads are not angularly loaded. So, do the TIR with the bolts tight and do it again with them relaxed comparing with the TIR on the shaft at the seal area. You will then know if the coupling is deflecting the shaft.
Click to expand...
Here you go - this is the shaft alignment bushing in the log to set the gear mount coupling alignment on my boat. At the same time we do a "rough" alignment on the far mounts for the coupling flanges and measure out the clearances on the cutlass bearing. Then this alignment bushing gets pulled, the seal assembly installed, coupling installed and pulled up and mated. Finally, the far mounts are adjusted to close any alignment gaps on the couplings and you are done.
index.php
 
@ttmott I agree with everything you stated, however, I don't necessarily agree that the measurement will produce meaningful results. I'm tuning in for the results.
 
mnm99 said:
The transmission is meant to move left and right for alignment. I don't think I have to pull the boat either since I touched that.
What I know to make it simple.

- Trans Flange to Coupler flange = less then .0015 ( no gap ) with feeler gauge no bolts
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with no bolts in.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .001- .002 spinning with bolts in but loose.
- Dial indicator on shaft in front of seal = .010 spinning with bolts tight.

What I'm confused about is if I'm at .0015 and cant get my feeler in at any point and then I tighten bolts why would it really change? If the mating surface was off on the coupler I would see that with the feeler gauge.

I'm going to put the dial indicator on the trans flange and coupler when tight and loose to see.

quote...Now - on the flange faces - both faces are machined parallel to ensure the bolt heads are not angularly loaded. So, do the TIR with the bolts tight and do it again with them relaxed comparing with the TIR on the shaft at the seal area. You will then know if the coupling is deflecting the shaft.
Could this be possibly fixed by removing the coupler, maybe lapping it and reinstalling? I know what the other answer is. This is a brand new shaft and coupler fitted by a well known shop. Knowing my situation they went the extra mile to get them right.
Click to expand...
It could be the taper has issues, the key is interfering, or measuring the gap and adjusting to close is incorrect. Think about this - the distance between the center of the shaft and where the gap is being measured as a ratio of the distance from the flange face to the seal. If 4 to one is the ratio a 0.001 gap on one side of the flange faces will translate to a 0.008 TIR at the seal assuming 100% deflection.
 
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ttmott said:
Here you go - this is the shaft alignment bushing in the log to set the gear mount coupling alignment on my boat. At the same time we do a "rough" alignment on the far mounts for the coupling flanges and measure out the clearances on the cutlass bearing. Then this alignment bushing gets pulled, the seal assembly installed, coupling installed and pulled up and mated. Finally, the far mounts are adjusted to close any alignment gaps on the couplings and you are done.
index.php
Click to expand...

I was centered in the log before the boat went in the water? I don't think this has to do with what's happening here.
 
mnm99 said:
I was centered in the log before the boat went in the water? I don't think this has to do with what's happening here.
Click to expand...
Agree - I'm trying to dissuade another post recommendation to move/adjust the mounts that set that center. If you move that adjustment the shaft will no longer be centered in the shaft log and will stress the seal to one side.
 
Here is another thing to consider - when they lapped the coupling to the shaft they should have scribed a mark on the shaft where the coupling rests - when the coupling, key, washer, and nut were installed did the coupling return to that scribed mark?
 
1. The engine mounts adjust flange faces parallel - north and south direction

2. Drive mounts can adjust flange to flange concentricity in north, south, east, and west ditections.

Do we all agree to that?
 
UPDATE....... So here it goes.. So weird but now I can sleep, just glad it's fixed!

Bolted together
1- I verified the runout on the transmission flange = .000 runout
2- I verified the runout on the shaft coupler = .000 runout
Both perfect.
1- I then put the dial gauge on the shaft and had my .012 runout now.
2- Loosened the 4 bolts and had a runout of around .001 to .002.
3- I used a feeler size of .020, sandwiched the the gauge between and adjusted the engine so there was drag all around.
4- I used a .010 gauge and did the same
5- I used a .003 and did the same. Adjusting the motor every time.
6-Bolted the flange together with only 2 bolts loose and checked runout. The runout was still .001-.002 on the shaft.
7- Tightened the 2 bolts JUST a little snugger and noticed the shaft runout changed to .009. hmm
8- Took my .003 feeler and noticed there was a gap on one side of the flange now. Adjusted motor.
9- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .002
10- Snugged bolts again a little and checked, Runout went to .007 again. and had a gap on the same side again. and adjusted motor with .002 again.
11- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .003
12- Tightened as tight as I could , checked all mounts were tight and everything good. Checked runout and now has between .003 to .004 on the shaft. Started motor and put in gear at the dock. The seal now does not move!!!!!!! I'm leaving it at that for now.

So I still don't understand why it wasn't correct when I could get the .020, or the .003 in there and had slight drag all around the coupler unbolted. Then when it was all tightened it went out of wack... Thanks for all your help guys. I've done an alignment like 10 times before and this one really got me stumped...
 
mnm99 said:
UPDATE....... So here it goes.. So weird but now I can sleep, just glad it's fixed!

Bolted together
1- I verified the runout on the transmission flange = .000 runout
2- I verified the runout on the shaft coupler = .000 runout
Both perfect.
1- I then put the dial gauge on the shaft and had my .012 runout now.
2- Loosened the 4 bolts and had a runout of around .001 to .002.
3- I used a feeler size of .020, sandwiched the the gauge between and adjusted the engine so there was drag all around.
4- I used a .010 gauge and did the same
5- I used a .003 and did the same. Adjusting the motor every time.
6-Bolted the flange together with only 2 bolts loose and checked runout. The runout was still .001-.002 on the shaft.
7- Tightened the 2 bolts JUST a little snugger and noticed the shaft runout changed to .009. hmm
8- Took my .003 feeler and noticed there was a gap on one side of the flange now. Adjusted motor.
9- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .002
10- Snugged bolts again a little and checked, Runout went to .007 again. and had a gap on the same side again. and adjusted motor with .002 again.
11- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .003
12- Tightened as tight as I could , checked all mounts were tight and everything good. Checked runout and now has between .003 to .004 on the shaft. Started motor and put in gear at the dock. The seal now does not move!!!!!!! I'm leaving it at that for now.

So I still don't understand why it wasn't correct when I could get the .020, or the .003 in there and had slight drag all around the coupler unbolted. Then when it was all tightened it went out of wack... Thanks for all your help guys. I've done an alignment like 10 times before and this one really got me stumped...
Click to expand...

Impressive! Do you travel? Mine needs dialed in like that.... the drinks are on me!

Seriously though, well done and thanks for detailing it so someone else can do it...
 
mnm99 said:
UPDATE....... So here it goes.. So weird but now I can sleep, just glad it's fixed!

Bolted together
1- I verified the runout on the transmission flange = .000 runout
2- I verified the runout on the shaft coupler = .000 runout
Both perfect.
1- I then put the dial gauge on the shaft and had my .012 runout now.
2- Loosened the 4 bolts and had a runout of around .001 to .002.
3- I used a feeler size of .020, sandwiched the the gauge between and adjusted the engine so there was drag all around.
4- I used a .010 gauge and did the same
5- I used a .003 and did the same. Adjusting the motor every time.
6-Bolted the flange together with only 2 bolts loose and checked runout. The runout was still .001-.002 on the shaft.
7- Tightened the 2 bolts JUST a little snugger and noticed the shaft runout changed to .009. hmm
8- Took my .003 feeler and noticed there was a gap on one side of the flange now. Adjusted motor.
9- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .002
10- Snugged bolts again a little and checked, Runout went to .007 again. and had a gap on the same side again. and adjusted motor with .002 again.
11- Checked shaft runout again and went back down to .003
12- Tightened as tight as I could , checked all mounts were tight and everything good. Checked runout and now has between .003 to .004 on the shaft. Started motor and put in gear at the dock. The seal now does not move!!!!!!! I'm leaving it at that for now.

So I still don't understand why it wasn't correct when I could get the .020, or the .003 in there and had slight drag all around the coupler unbolted. Then when it was all tightened it went out of wack... Thanks for all your help guys. I've done an alignment like 10 times before and this one really got me stumped...
Click to expand...
Not sure how you moved the engine, but I rigged up a scissors jack to push mine outward. I cranked the jack until I had it just right then loosened the jack and when I double checked the gap it had moved back. Turns out I didn’t loosen the top nut of the engine mount near enough. My pushing was pushing not just out but also slightly up against the washer. I ended up backing the nut way off to make sure it didn’t get in the way.
 
firecadet613 said:
Impressive! Do you travel? Mine needs dialed in like that.... the drinks are on me!

Seriously though, well done and thanks for detailing it so someone else can do it...
Click to expand...

Next time I go to see my Mother-in law I'll stop by. She's in Indiana. Don't hold your breath though, I try to no go there as much as I can...LOL:p
 
ZZ13 said:
Not sure how you moved the engine, but I rigged up a scissors jack to push mine outward. I cranked the jack until I had it just right then loosened the jack and when I double checked the gap it had moved back. Turns out I didn’t loosen the top nut of the engine mount near enough. My pushing was pushing not just out but also slightly up against the washer. I ended up backing the nut way off to make sure it didn’t get in the way.
Click to expand...

Adjusted with the motor mounts. Why would the motor need to move forward and back? Only up down side to side.
 
mnm99 said:
Adjusted with the motor mounts. Why would the motor need to move forward and back? Only up down side to side.
Click to expand...
“Outward” meant side to side. My point was I had a restriction restricting the movement. That restriction was a motor mount bolt not loose enough. Guess that didn’t affect you.
 
ZZ13 said:
“Outward” meant side to side. My point was I had a restriction restricting the movement. That restriction was a motor mount bolt not loose enough. Guess that didn’t affect you.
Click to expand...

oh okay
 
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