Dripless seal wobble?

mnm99

mnm99

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2015
2,447
Long Island
Boat Info
2004 340 SeaRay Sundancer
Engines
Twin 8.1 Merc
Below video a video of the seal last year with the old shaft, trans, and prop. It didn't wobble last year. Below is what I did this year. There was no shaft in the seal all winter.
Okay before you start blasting , shaft is bent, prop bent, mounts bad ect.. Here is what has been done. I didn't take it for a seatrial yet, Just in gear at the dock I noticed a slight wobble at the seal. I cant get a Dial mic in there to check the shaft, but will try again tomorrow. COULD it just be the seal off center? Or just the dripless? I Called Tides and he said don't worry about it, but I didn't sound confident with him. Thoughtful IDEAS...

-NEW A22 shaft
-Coupling refaced and fitted
-New Props
-New Cutless bearing
-New Transmission
-New Trans mounts
Alignment was just done IN THE WATER sitting for 72hrs and got it to .0015 without being able to get it between at any point. If it had anything to do with the shaft or the coupler out of spec how would I be able to align them so perfect? That's what I'm thinking...

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZLFgagqo5ts?feature=share
 
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mnm99 said:
Below video a video of the seal last year with the old shaft, trans, and prop. It didn't wobble last year. Below is what I did this year. There was no shaft in the seal all winter.
Okay before you start blasting , shaft is bent, prop bent, mounts bad ect.. Here is what has been done. I didn't take it for a seatrial yet, Just in gear at the dock I noticed a slight wobble at the seal. I cant get a Dial mic in there to check the shaft, but will try again tomorrow. COULD it just be the seal off center? Or just the dripless? I Called Tides and he said don't worry about it, but I didn't sound confident with him. Thoughtful IDEAS...

-NEW A22 shaft
-Coupling refaced and fitted
-New Props
-New Transmission
-New Trans mounts
Alignment was just done and got it to .0015 without being able to get it between at any point. If it had anything to do with the shaft or the coupler out of spec how would I be able to align them so perfect? That's what I'm thinking...

https://youtube.com/shorts/ZLFgagqo5ts?feature=share
Click to expand...
Was the alignment done after the boat was in the water for a while?
 
techmitch said:
Was the alignment done after the boat was in the water for a while?
Click to expand...
This. Wait at least 72 hours after putting the boat in the water before you do the alignment. My $$$ is on it's off just a bit...
 
firecadet613 said:
This. Wait at least 72 hours after putting the boat in the water before you do the alignment. My $$$ is on it's off just a bit...
Click to expand...
I went one further...I aligned it to .0015 72hrs later and then let it sit another day without putting the 4 bolts back together. Went back to check it again the next day. Nothing changed.
 
mnm99 said:
I went one further...I aligned it to .0015 72hrs later and then let it sit another day without putting the 4 bolts back together. Went back to check it again the next day. Nothing changed.
Click to expand...

I got nothing. One of mine has a slight wobble - it was pretty bad but I pulled the shaft, had it straightened and it's still there. I didn't catch it on my sea-trial and there is no vibration at speed....I'm not loosing sleep on it.
 
firecadet613 said:
I got nothing. One of mine has a slight wobble - it was pretty bad but I pulled the shaft, had it straightened and it's still there. I didn't catch it on my sea-trial and there is no vibration at speed....I'm not loosing sleep on it.
Click to expand...

I don't want to loose sleep either, but I haven't been able to seatrial yet due to wind. Yea. I did a crap load of work after a rock hit last year. I pretty much replaced everything and the prop shop I dealt with knew how upset I was about what happened and wanted to get it right. I know how to align shafts and I know I got them pretty good. Just doesn't makes sense. If I got the coupler so tight clearance wise, that would pretty much tell me the coupler was seated on the taper correctly also. No way the shaft is bent. He made sure it was perfect. Stumped.
 
Golfman25 said:
Where's the wobble? Take if for a sea trial. If no vibration and no leaks, I'm not sure I would worry about it.
Click to expand...
Wobble is at the Tides seal. I haven't been able to test trial. If there is no vibration I'm not worrying about it. If there is..I AM LOST.. Won't be able to tell till the weekend. Driving me crazy.
 
mnm99 said:
Wobble is at the Tides seal. I haven't been able to test trial. If there is no vibration I'm not worrying about it. If there is..I AM LOST.. Won't be able to tell till the weekend. Driving me crazy.
Click to expand...

i can’t see any way it’s a bent component since it’s so close. I would imagine you rotated the shaft independent of the transmission coupler and checked the alignment again? If it stays at the aap .0015 in all mating positions you’re nearly perfectly aligned and all components are straight.

Where does it actually wobble. Right at the seal face or the blue tube?

maybe the vibration of the engine is being transferred? Does it wobble more if you idle up?

How about the two cooling lines, both flowing freely? <- this is a total long shot but maybe if one of them is plugged or other wise misbehaving it’s causing some kind of turbulence between the bushing and the shaft
 
Strecker25 said:
i can’t see any way it’s a bent component since it’s so close. I would imagine you rotated the shaft independent of the transmission coupler and checked the alignment again? If it stays at the aap .0015 in all mating positions you’re nearly perfectly aligned and all components are straight.

Where does it actually wobble. Right at the seal face or the blue tube?

maybe the vibration of the engine is being transferred? Does it wobble more if you idle up?

How about the two cooling lines, both flowing freely? <- this is a total long shot but maybe if one of them is plugged or other wise misbehaving it’s causing some kind of turbulence between the bushing and the shaft
Click to expand...

Yea I check the mating surface at 12, 3, 6, and 9. Slide it around the whole coupler, Rotate 180 and check again. I'm going down today again and pull the 4 bolts to check one more time. I keep double thinking myself..

The wobble is at the black part of the dripless carrier, so that would affect the blue part too.

I can't see engine being a vibration. Everything is real smooth when in gear at idle.

I guess I could check the tube, but on the dry water was flowing pretty good under the boat at the dripless.

I have a dial indicator. All I need to do is mount it somehow and check the shaft runout in front of the dripless. It's so tight I cant get in there to get a good mounting point. HUH..Just found this. Going to get one. Should work.
https://www.harborfreight.com/clamping-dial-indicator-63656.html
 
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Sorry, but my old eyes can't even detect a wobble.
I have seen dripless coupling with far greater runout than you have and never give any problems.
That flexible rubber boot, at times, can make things seem wonky.

On the dial indicator, if it is a magnetic base, try to get a decent sized (some weight to it) piece of steel and just lay in bilge. Clamp the indicator to that.
 
Bill Curtis said:
Sorry, but my old eyes can't even detect a wobble.
I have seen dripless coupling with far greater runout than you have and never give any problems.
That flexible rubber boot, at times, can make things seem wonky.

On the dial indicator, if it is a magnetic base, try to get a decent sized (some weight to it) piece of steel and just lay in bilge. Clamp the indicator to that.
Click to expand...

The video was before I put all the new stuff in. It's supposed to look like that. Now it doesn't
 
nealtrombley said:
Your strut wasn’t damaged ?
Click to expand...
Yes, a twisted strut can also cause the shaft to deflect and actually wobble.
@mmm99 before taking it back apart I would first verify I could turn the shaft by hand and that its movement is the same effort (torque) all the way around. By being able to rotate the shaft by hand without too much effort supports eliminating the strut as the issue. Then get a dial indicator on the shaft at that seal and actually see how much it is moving. New shafts do have their allowable TIR.
The issue, if there is an issue, is not in the seal assembly other than if the carrier is new then the Delrin bearing is much tighter to the shaft and will more likely transmit any shaft movement. This could simply be a new vs. old thing. I do know a thing or two about shaft alignment and struts - check out my saga on the 500DB thread.
 
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Not to hijack, but I'm dealing with similar. My strb shaft has had a 5 thou wobble at the shaftseal for 10 years. Alignment prior was good, both shafts spun easily by hand, and no leaks. I just did a haul out, and since it has been a while, I pulled props, shafts, couplers and sent them to be checked. Props needed a little work, shafts straight, couplers good, and lapped to the shaft. Reassembled with new cutless bearings and Tides shaft seals (old ones were 22 years old, still good. I changed them for PM, highly recommend Tides). Splashed the boat and wobble is still there (bad words).

I did not check the strut or laser align things when I was out of the water. Obviously wish I had now, but I didn't think that was the issue. Again, shafts spun easily by hand and cutless bearings were evenly worn. My shafts are 2", 78" long and weigh over 100 lbs. For enough "out of alignment" force to be applied to make the shaft wobble should produce enough friction in the cutless bearing that you could not turn it by had. I thought the shaft had a slight bend to it, but shop said no.

I'm have a guy coming to the boat and check the alignment again. I'm hoping that is the issue, but I'm not sure. And I did triple-ck the keys/keyways on both props and couplers. Thoughts or comments?

Thanks!
Larry
 
LMBoat said:
Not to hijack, but I'm dealing with similar. My strb shaft has had a 5 thou wobble at the shaftseal for 10 years. Alignment prior was good, both shafts spun easily by hand, and no leaks. I just did a haul out, and since it has been a while, I pulled props, shafts, couplers and sent them to be checked. Props needed a little work, shafts straight, couplers good, and lapped to the shaft. Reassembled with new cutless bearings and Tides shaft seals (old ones were 22 years old, still good. I changed them for PM, highly recommend Tides). Splashed the boat and wobble is still there (bad words).

I did not check the strut or laser align things when I was out of the water. Obviously wish I had now, but I didn't think that was the issue. Again, shafts spun easily by hand and cutless bearings were evenly worn. My shafts are 2", 78" long and weigh over 100 lbs. For enough "out of alignment" force to be applied to make the shaft wobble should produce enough friction in the cutless bearing that you could not turn it by had. I thought the shaft had a slight bend to it, but shop said no.

I'm have a guy coming to the boat and check the alignment again. I'm hoping that is the issue, but I'm not sure. And I did triple-ck the keys/keyways on both props and couplers. Thoughts or comments?

Thanks!
Larry
Click to expand...
It doesn't take much mis-alignment at the coupler (gap on one side) to deflect a normally straight shaft. Another thing from some old posts here on this forum is worn out motor mounts can be a contributor.
 
ttmott said:
It doesn't take much mis-alignment at the coupler (gap on one side) to deflect a normally straight shaft. Another thing from some old posts here on this forum is worn out motor mounts can be a contributor.
Click to expand...
Just bought a dial gauge. I'm going to check the shaft right in front of the seal. Mounts look good. No rust and there tight. Trans mounts are new.
 
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