Heading sensor for Radar Overlay

O

Outlaw Dave

Member
Apr 30, 2018
51
SoCal - Long Beach
Boat Info
2007 38 Sundancer
Engines
8.1's
Hi All, I could use some advice on this...

I have a Raymarine e125 hybrid touch display MFD and a new Quantum radar radome. I want to have/use radar overlay on my main chart and I have read that I need a heading sensor for the system to display that. Can anyone recomend a heading sensor? Is there another way to get the radar overlay to work without adding anything? I currently don't have autopilot and not looking to install it.

Dave
 
Outlaw Dave said:
Hi All, I could use some advice on this...

I have a Raymarine e125 hybrid touch display MFD and a new Quantum radar radome. I want to have/use radar overlay on my main chart and I have read that I need a heading sensor for the system to display that. Can anyone recomend a heading sensor? Is there another way to get the radar overlay to work without adding anything? I currently don't have autopilot and not looking to install it.Dave
Click to expand...
I believe most vendors recommend you stay with the components that are designed to work together. Do you have a Raymarine fluxgate compass installed? That should work with your other electronics well.
 
Outlaw Dave said:
Hi All, I could use some advice on this...

I have a Raymarine e125 hybrid touch display MFD and a new Quantum radar radome. I want to have/use radar overlay on my main chart and I have read that I need a heading sensor for the system to display that. Can anyone recomend a heading sensor? Is there another way to get the radar overlay to work without adding anything? I currently don't have autopilot and not looking to install it.

Dave
Click to expand...

Are you sure you need the heading sensor for overlay? On my Axioms we only need a heading sensor to overlay radar data if not in motion. We are running up to date Lighthouse 3 software.

While not 100% sure - it sounds like it available on Lighthouse 2:
https://forum.raymarine.com/showthread.php?tid=7079

When the boat is moving it uses the heading based on GPS for the overlay. While the heading sensor would certainly provide better data if all you need is the overlay when underway it might be available.

-Kevin
 
Pretty much any heading sensor that outputs to NMEA 2000 should work. No vendor has any propriety on the sentences that are output. Where it gets tricky, however, is with calibration. Different manufacturers have different mechanisms to calibrate a heading sensor to its placement on your boat. Using a heading sensor with the same manufacturer as your MFD may allow you to access finer calibration adjustments beyond the standard 'spin the boat' procedure.

The benefits of a heading sensor go beyond aligning the radar image with your charts. When you are stationary, it will allow your chart to remain oriented to the direction of your bow, which IMO is worth the price of admission all on its own. This is less of an issue when you are moving of course, because your MFD will substitute course info obtained from GPS for the missing heading info.
 
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When we switched our electronics from analog to digital, I planned to do best in breed components. Really liked my old Simrad auto pilot and wanted a Furuno radar and Raymarine chart plotter. Marina was willing to do it, but told me I would loose some functionality due to software conflicts. I decided to go all Raymarine to avoid trouble shooting software glitches.
 
@Outlaw Dave You will need to get a heading sensor that can be calibrated by your e125 if you are planning on keeping that. A fluxgate compass that drives most autopilots can be used, but it would have to be able to be standalone and I am not sure the vintage Raymarine compass can do that, as it it is not NMEA2000 or 0183 as far as I know. I have that compass currently for my RM SPx10 autopilot. The newer RM Evolution unit's and Garmin's GPS 24xd can do this. The RM sensor is twice as expensive as the Garmin but the Garmin needs to be calibrated by the MFD and as far as I know only the newer Garmin MFD's are capable of this. I have never tried on a newer Axiom. There are other's also, Maretron has one and Garmin also has another called Steady Cast, this will work but again needs to be calibrated by recent models of their MFD's.

If you could find an NMEA0183 stand alone compass that would work. Just not sure if they still exist and you would have to most likely get a used one from ebay or the like.

From the manual (found here) on pg 186, you can use any fluxgate compass, but they recommend the EV-1 or 2 units.
 
Why not purchase a compass designed to work with what you have vs. trying any other and hoping it works?
 
Just contact FLIR (Raymarine) and ask them.

On my "vintage" C80, I added a used Raymarine Gyroplus heading sensor and fluxgate compass I bought on eBay. I had to do that because Raymarine's last "Parting gift" software update for the C80, disabled radar overlay unless you had an installed heading sensor connected. Relatively simple fix and I am still using it all several years later. I was told (not by Raymarine) that you don't need the full GyroPlus unit unless you have autopilot, but I found one with compass at a reasonable price used so just got the whole thing.
 
bobeast said:
Pretty much any heading sensor that outputs to NMEA 2000 should work. No vendor has any propriety on the sentences that are output. Where it gets tricky, however, is with calibration. Different manufacturers have different mechanisms to calibrate a heading sensor to its placement on your boat. Using a heading sensor with the same manufacturer as your MFD may allow you to access finer calibration adjustments beyond the standard 'spin the boat' procedure.

The benefits of a heading sensor go beyond aligning the radar image with your charts. When you are stationary, it will allow your chart to remain oriented to the direction of your bow, which IMO is worth the price of admission all on its own. This is less of an issue when you are moving of course, because your MFD will substitute course info obtained from GPS for the missing heading info.
Click to expand...

The calibration part is right on. I looked up the Garmin Steadcast sensor, since I had one and it's a 9 axis compass. That unit connects via NMEA 2000 (vs. Garmin network). The rub is that the sensor has to be calibrated via the Garmin MFD so it probably won't work with another brand of gear.

Speaking of heading sensor and radar overlay, at least with Garmin you don't NEED a heading sensor to get overlay. It will use GPS data if the boat is in motion, but if drifting it might not be 100% accurate. A heading sensor solves this, plus will show the proper overlay and actual heading when the boat is not in motion.

One thing that will NOT work without a heading sensor (in a Garmin radar) is MARPA. If not familiar, this will allow you ID and track targets for collision avoidance. With MARPA you can set the system to issue collision warning alerts. I'd want to have a heading sensor just for that, and to have the boat's actual heading displayed when stationary.

Edit: I know the question is about Raymarine, but for reference Garmin has a number of heading sensor options. Might be useful for considering options.
  • Autopilot. The Reactor autopilot has a built-in heading sensor. $$$$
  • MSC 10 satellite compass. Fails over to heading sensor. $1100
  • 9 axis heading sensor. 2 degree accuracy. $650
  • Steadycast 9 axis heading sensor. 3 degree accuracy. $160.
I had the Steadycast and can confirm its works for radar overlay and MARPA. For 1 degree better accuracy I can't see paying 4x the price for the more expensive version.
 
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You can buy the Raymarine EV-1 sensor core, but its about $600, but I think you need an P70 autopilot head or Axiom display to calibrate it.

The older flux gates are available for about $100, but again requires a AP head unit to calibrate.
 
Thank you all very much for your replies... I believe at this point I need to contact RM and ask them what stand alone fluxgate compass is compatable with my e125 9with seatalk or nmea2k interface)... I really don't want to replace my mfd at this point, it works fine for me.

Again, thank you all for responding to my situation, this place always has the best support!!

Dave
 
Just got off the phone with Raymarine technical support...o_O They recommended a external gps raystar 130 unit be installed... I explained my mfd has built in gps and he stated that this would be better. I explained my stiuation to him , I don't think he understood at all...

Dave
 
Outlaw Dave said:
Just got off the phone with Raymarine technical support...o_O They recommended a external gps raystar 130 unit be installed... I explained my mfd has built in gps and he stated that this would be better. I explained my stiuation to him , I don't think he understood at all...

Dave
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Yeah, that doesn't sound right.
 
Outlaw Dave said:
Just got off the phone with Raymarine technical support...o_O They recommended a external gps raystar 130 unit be installed... I explained my mfd has built in gps and he stated that this would be better. I explained my stiuation to him , I don't think he understood at all...

Dave
Click to expand...

The problem with Raymarine Tech support the past year or so is their top two main people retired and the new replacements only seem to know the new equipment. You need to find a FluxGate compass that stands alone and has NMEA0183 output. KVH has one and can be self calibrated, the Azimuth-1000. Been around for years and works great. A bit pricey though: https://www.kvh.com/admin/products/compasses/compass-systems/azimuth-1000/leisure-azimuth-1000

Less money and is factory calibrated is the Maretron SSC300: https://www.maretron.com/products/ssc300.php



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EV-1 on EBay asking $440. —> https://www.ebay.com/itm/275223411083?_trkparms=ispr=1&hash=item401497f98b:g:tDkAAOSwmrNiN7Dp&amdata=enc:AQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSlHY%2FYTip4QFVjNQrCEJt6hS2jz9Ey%2F9dItNWjkfUV2JAcKQJ2XYhe5nByXPP%2BOGiNAqQbb4nT3hiIRXResG6uPVhe6CnamDXXxUEby4Pps3f%2FoyseJM3Sym%2B0JrgQQOU1%2FrWH%2BtM12%2BdpMTYPIU3Zbwtc5BEcLnguD4hzGfCn1BlflhhsAY4bbjT8P0gWqY6DdT1zxPYLpznRKGdVJkevWo18e223RicqxY2DScNgAdQYHGT68hVDX4KmeuDs0kMTntSRzl8HvYBXhXWdqUvHLKvmysDfhB4LHNNh4dvNlT%2BFN14Ij8Ni7IVbtd8iMGJdbzimA0ABYC8nMyUbu8Au3jbb1xAPdtlhk5%2F18RB1QcuEZcwSZE047AJzHQglr4e6zaqjWbxJuytG34GcjvC64XRbe1sdkn6E%2B2OdeR%2BH1U8BiniW49C6RCgKKslktjNhiDbnKlrz6YTO5gDKmwNXTFoAFA%2BGjcBwUtIEcAgH2S7dXqnCCY%2B%2FWumKwfF8SEBDDr4CSlcB3GvPaZBcGXjvALzGzBYVRZFFQT83GWMGOYLDV6YfiQ4u3Tfr1EwMcYKO7XwglLUQmpUcVuErNeHVyNc%2FqNwuHtoIgLd%2B8oKXAfy9Bo%2FWu%2BuMNO8Dcx6%2ByK7bLHhi4jpGipaZLTi1drJw7tV09gZSq26Eeus6cksChi5vfjj%2BhDVkZ69W2qRE9Qvay3SAXEFumd2EO%2FvCmAgKShIbP0%2BwMcZq21t0DeWm6MdVng90T4CrrbObEQ%2FSF3H9%2BBW1jz6cUsDgJwARhK4go2TRhdVXiFa48lsi1wC%2FeIEmw4Sf99y3JkQfrkFGImyr28ThKXoeQy7AL%2Bm7f3mfQ%3D%3D|clp:2334524|tkp:BFBMvq-N1fVf

that would be pretty easy to integrate into the eSeries and get you want your looking for. If you don5 already have a SeaTalkNG or N2K network installed, you’ll need a backbone and a drop cable. A Starter kit with everything you need is about $100.

B22D03B7-B0BB-445A-9970-8AC87FEFAF52.jpeg
 
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Outlaw Dave said:
Just got off the phone with Raymarine technical support...o_O They recommended a external gps raystar 130 unit be installed... I explained my mfd has built in gps and he stated that this would be better. I explained my stiuation to him , I don't think he understood at all...

Dave
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why they would recommend that RS130 GPS. If spending the money, go with the RS150. It’s the newest best fastest etc and more future proof, and looks to be about the same $.

If you ever do upgrade to an Axiom, you will need the external RS150. The internal on the Axiom sucks when installed in the electronics pod on a Sea Ray.
 
dtfeld said:
I’m not sure why they would recommend that RS130 GPS. If spending the money, go with the RS150. It’s the newest best fastest etc and more future proof, and looks to be about the same $.

If you ever do upgrade to an Axiom, you will need the external RS150. The internal on the Axiom sucks when installed in the electronics pod on a Sea Ray.
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The Raymarine customer "support" person doesn't know what they are talking about. A GPS antennae does not give compass orientation information needed for radar overlay. That was bad advice.
 
Creekwood said:
The Raymarine customer "support" person doesn't know what they are talking about. A GPS antennae does not give compass orientation information needed for radar overlay. That was bad advice.
Click to expand...

Agreed. See post about EV-1.

And why recommending older technology?
 
dtfeld said:
Agreed. See post about EV-1.

And why recommending older technology?
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Sorry, I am not really recommending older technology. I have no idea what will work with the OP's newer MFD head unit.
But in my case, I had older technology and no clear plan whether to stick with Raymarine if and when I upgrade the whole system. So for me, going with older used compass technology designed specifically to work with my older head unit, made economic sense as well as eliminated any compatibility concerns for me.
 
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