fuel flow system,what do you have.

1956olds

1956olds

Well-Known Member
SILVER Sponsor
Oct 31, 2009
3,455
michigan,saginaw bay
Boat Info
1992 370 ec
Engines
twin cummins 6bta's 300 hp
Rl80 pathfinder radar/chartplotter,SH 2150 matrix vhf w/ais
quicksilver 8
Looking at maeretron any others out there with these,or something different to compare them to?
 
1956olds said:
Looking at maeretron any others out there with these,or something different to compare them to?
Click to expand...
The Maretron is great and probably the destination I'd go if I needed a system; Maretron is simply bullet proof and reliable. Floscan is another popular flow meter system that has a NMEA 2000 interface. Several years ago many on this forum installed the Floscan system.
Anyway you look at it, you are in the $3K range to implement.....
 
Fuel flow management systems are pretty much cost prohibitive for pleasure boats if they were not part of the engine fitment. It will cost upwards of 1.5K per engine or more Martron or Floscan. While the live data cannot be had, for a few hundred the Maretron TLM100's can replace the existing fuel level senders and with a DSM410 you can determine your fuel usage. The TLM's are very accurate and after a tank to two you will know exactly how much fuel you use in almost every situation. I do realize the value of real time fuel burn, but not sure the 3-4K is worth it.
 
I have one of these. It will tell you all sorts of info. It's a 2K only unit. You just hook up whatever sensors you want. If you have a newer engine that puts out 2K data, it will give you all of that. It will show up to 4 different items on one screen and you can program up to 16 screens. I use it just for fuel management. GPH burn, MPG, Gal. used, Gal remaining, Range remaining. It will show trim tab info, engine trim...too much to list

https://www.boat-fuel-economy.com/lowrance-lmf-400-for-sale
 
Halfhitch said:
I have one of these. It will tell you all sorts of info. It's a 2K only unit. You just hook up whatever sensors you want. If you have a newer engine that puts out 2K data, it will give you all of that. It will show up to 4 different items on one screen and you can program up to 16 screens. I use it just for fuel management. GPH burn, MPG, Gal. used, Gal remaining, Range remaining. It will show trim tab info, engine trim...too much to list

https://www.boat-fuel-economy.com/lowrance-lmf-400-for-sale
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The OP has diesels, mechanical Cummings 6BTA (no J1939), which need to have return flow rate as well as feed. A controller is required to do the subtraction and calculate the fuel parameters as both feed and return rates change at different rates.
 
Oh, yeah, I see. I didn't pay enough attention to his power. One of my friends with a Luhrs express has twin Yanmars and he found the same deal, 3-4 boat bucks to get fuel flow numbers and it just isn't worth it. Sorry for the distraction.
 
SKybolt said:
Fuel flow management systems are pretty much cost prohibitive for pleasure boats if they were not part of the engine fitment. It will cost upwards of 1.5K per engine or more Martron or Floscan. While the live data cannot be had, for a few hundred the Maretron TLM100's can replace the existing fuel level senders and with a DSM410 you can determine your fuel usage. The TLM's are very accurate and after a tank to two you will know exactly how much fuel you use in almost every situation. I do realize the value of real time fuel burn, but not sure the 3-4K is worth it.
Click to expand...

Are the TLM100's just "plug and play" in place of the probes that our boats have installed from the factory?
 
scooper321 said:
Are the TLM100's just "plug and play" in place of the probes that our boats have installed from the factory?
Click to expand...

The short answer is no. The TLM100's are five hole mount's that fit exactly in the same holes that are in most every fuel tank. They are NMEA 2000 only, so your original wiring and gauges are useless for there existing use. I worded it that way because extra wires in the bilge are useful. The gauge holes can be filled with NMEA 2000 gauges or something else. But to utilize their actual benefit you will need something like the Maretron DSM410, but all MFD's that can display fuel levels and that are connected to the same NMEA 2000 back bone will display fuel levels. The benefit of the DSM410 is it will also display remaining fuel per tank and total fuel remaining in total both in gallons. This information can be used to determine fuel burn per engine. The TLM's are very accurate and after a few fuel fills you will know exactly what your per hr. burn rate is. I don't think in terms of 1/4 or 1/2 tank, I see gallons and know how much run time I have. So I look at total fuel remaining and know I burn 36-8 gallons/hr. but round to 40 and just do the math, 200 gallons - 5 hrs run time.
 
We don’t have a flow system per se, but get “flow” information from the engine management system, and the Volvo trip software keeps a running tally of the fuel burned to date. Volvo calculates the fuel consumption by counting injectors bursts, rpm etc. Once we got the tank senders properly calibrated, a running total of the burned to date number on the trip software turns out to be pretty darn accurate.
 
SKybolt said:
The short answer is no. The TLM100's are five hole mount's that fit exactly in the same holes that are in most every fuel tank. They are NMEA 2000 only, so your original wiring and gauges are useless for there existing use. I worded it that way because extra wires in the bilge are useful. The gauge holes can be filled with NMEA 2000 gauges or something else. But to utilize their actual benefit you will need something like the Maretron DSM410, but all MFD's that can display fuel levels and that are connected to the same NMEA 2000 back bone will display fuel levels. The benefit of the DSM410 is it will also display remaining fuel per tank and total fuel remaining in total both in gallons. This information can be used to determine fuel burn per engine. The TLM's are very accurate and after a few fuel fills you will know exactly what your per hr. burn rate is. I don't think in terms of 1/4 or 1/2 tank, I see gallons and know how much run time I have. So I look at total fuel remaining and know I burn 36-8 gallons/hr. but round to 40 and just do the math, 200 gallons - 5 hrs run time.
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OK. Thanks. I asked the question wrong. I just want to know if it was plug and play with the tanks we have. It sounds like they are. I realize it’s a whole different way of getting information out. I’m sure I can find something to fill those holes in the dash!
 
scooper321 said:
OK. Thanks. I asked the question wrong. I just want to know if it was plug and play with the tanks we have. It sounds like they are. I realize it’s a whole different way of getting information out. I’m sure I can find something to fill those holes in the dash!
Click to expand...
They will fit the SAE J1810 fuel tank sender interface that Sea Ray uses (you need to order that style and highly recommended the Focus Tube) however they are not plug and play. They are not compatible with resistive fuel gauges. They are not compatible with Smartcraft. They are not compatible with the OEM wiring.
You must have a NMEA 2000 data cable backbone, drop cables, and power infrastructure. You must have a means to program the TLM100 sensors (DSM410 display is what most of us use). You must have a NMEA 2000 compatible display to view the data from the sensors (any modern MFD, Vessel View, or Maretron display that interface with NMEA 2000).
 
Oh, also be aware that these are averaging devices to dampen sloshing effect on the read-out but they have a very high resolution. I seem to remember they do averaging on ten second intervals. That fact will play against a fuel consumption analysis as the fuel level changes relative to the boat's pitch and roll angle. Fuel burn calculations based upon these sensors can only be accomplished with data gathered at the exact hull angle conditions every time which is nearly impossible in-route.
The only data received (and it depends upon the programming and how the display is configured) is total volume (gallons, liters, etc), and volume remaining. This is a pic of one of mine for the fresh water tank for example; shows gauge with percent remaining, total, and remaining gallons -
PanelDispWater.jpg
 
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scooper321 said:
OK. Thanks. I asked the question wrong. I just want to know if it was plug and play with the tanks we have. It sounds like they are. I realize it’s a whole different way of getting information out. I’m sure I can find something to fill those holes in the dash!
Click to expand...

Plug and play - it confuses me a bit used that way, but yes they will mount in the fuel tanks in your Sea Ray. Just understand, as mentioned, you need an NMEA 2000 network and an NMEA 2000 display to view the data on.
 
Thank you all for the responses. My original post was so i could get real world numbers on fuel management as i am considering doing the great loop. I Dont want to buy another boat for this ,it would be a hassle to do that.BUy one sell this one then sell the other in a year or two and probably buy the last one, exhausting. My raymarine installer says he has installed these on other boats with my same axiom instruments and they work great without the added display,after reading a few of your posts i will need to clarify that with him though.
 
1956olds said:
Thank you all for the responses. My original post was so i could get real world numbers on fuel management as i am considering doing the great loop. I Dont want to buy another boat for this ,it would be a hassle to do that.BUy one sell this one then sell the other in a year or two and probably buy the last one, exhausting. My raymarine installer says he has installed these on other boats with my same axiom instruments and they work great without the added display,after reading a few of your posts i will need to clarify that with him though.
Click to expand...
Understand, so I think you are down to the investment in a bonafied fuel flow management system or do it the old school way with charts. I think it is an important skill to use the charts for fuel management; heck I did it for years back and forth to the Bahamian islands and got quite good at it.
 
BY the way i do already have axiom display and raymarine chartplotter ,gps, doppler radar, sonar and autopilot that i have had installed by Charlie at waterworld electronics over the past two years. Really dont want to buy all that again. Charlie did mention a different head unit that will run all fuel info and any other sensors i want including alternators temps from several different inputs battery state and possibly boost preassure. I will get with him next week and put the info here for anyone else interested.
 
scooper321 said:
you just need a way to configure the level sensor. The Maretron display can do that. Or you can buy an adapter to configure it with a laptop. I’ll have to read that post more closely to see if the axioms can actually configure a Maretron sensor...
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You can order the TLM's directly from Maretron and they will configure for you. Since the tanks are rectangular, you only need the tank height and total gallons.
 
1956olds said:
BY the way i do already have axiom display and raymarine chartplotter ,gps, doppler radar, sonar and autopilot that i have had installed by Charlie at waterworld electronics over the past two years. Really dont want to buy all that again. Charlie did mention a different head unit that will run all fuel info and any other sensors i want including alternators temps from several different inputs battery state and possibly boost preassure. I will get with him next week and put the info here for anyone else interested.
Click to expand...

My previous post to you pretty much stated you don't need any other display. I only mentioned the DSM 410 because that gives you more screens and a lot of customization that you don't have with the Axiom. I have three and might get a fourth. Keep in mind you don't have to keep them limited to the helm. I also have one in my electric panel like Tom does.
 
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