Close quarters running - what would you do?

This will be less of a rant, and more of an ethics question to ponder.
Preface:
I am a 100 Ton Master since 1985. I am a son of a boat builder, and lifelong resident of Sarasota/Bradenton. We have a spot on the Intercoastal Waterway that I have navigated for at least 53 years in various vessels. This spot is about a mile long, beginning at the turn North from the top of Sarasota Bay to Jewfish Key. It is close quarters (the width of the intercoastal) with very shallow water on either side. At the North end, the "deep" water is marked with floating buoys about 20-30 feet wide. It is also one of the most heavily traveled parts of the waterway due to the draw of Jewfish sandbar, Beer Can beach, and is the gateway to the Gulf and Tampa bay eventually.

Yesterday, I borrowed my neighbor's pontoon boat to take my family including a 7 month old grandchild for a ride. Beach House was down, getting props replaced. I came away from that with a few observations.
Manatee County has exactly one slow speed zone in the Intracoastal Waterway. That is at Cortez bridge. Everywhere else is balls to the wall (supposedly up to 25 knots), regardless of what you are driving. There is a very similar channel in South Sarasota, beginning at Siesta Key bridge, heading South that is slow speed, minimum wake for as long as I can remember.
There seems to be little concern in today's navigators for anything except how big, shiny, loud, and fast they can be. Now I don't care too much about the fast part, or the loud part for that matter. There's a time and place for both of those. But there is a huge increase of battlewagon cruisers, and that stretch of waterway is getting very challenging.


My normal strategy is to boat on weekdays to avoid the Chit Show, but yesterday was the day for schedule reasons. Beautiful day, so as usual, it was loaded up with every imaginable operator.
After anchoring off the sandbar for a bit, we started heading home. Here comes the question.
As we are traveling South in this very narrow stretch of waterway, there is a Northbound 60 something Azimut, or one of its cousins at full throw. There are 20 or more Sportsman/Contender/Yellowfins behind me, all taking aim to show this Redneck Hee Haw Pontooner what REAL boating is like. Now, Azimut is throwing at least 4' at 20 plus knots. There is only one person visible on the bridge, so worse yet, this was probably some delivery Captain, or someone who just runs like that all the time, so he can't get anyone to go out with him. Just like the center console he drove the day before, there was no attempt to reduce speed or wake, and I guarantee he didn't look back. All I could do is quarter the wake and hope for the best. Needless to say, they were just far enough apart for me to get a righteous deck sweep, including my sleeping 7 month old in a car seat. We caught most of the stuff, and managed to pick the baby up just as we were awash.

Here's the question. Do you, as the operator of your vessel, strictly adhere to the legality of the channel, and surrounding situation be dammed, or do you strictly adhere to your surrounding situation, legality be dammed? Neither one of us was doing anything wrong, unless of course Azimut had caused damage or bodily injury. And, seriously, it could have gone either way.
Manatee County, the Coast Guard, and Core of Engineers need to take a very close look at this stretch. It ain't what used to be in the 90's.
Pondering rant over.

Common courtesy and consideration for others is no longer a standard in the younger generation. My 48’ bridge boat stays at no wake while in shallow water. It just seems to be the right thing to do

People have lost the concept of responsibility for their wake.

In that situation I’m pretty sure I would have done what you did.

We have something similar called the Rock Pile at Myrtle Beach. The protocol there is to announce your entry into that narrow rocky stretch on 16 and 13, mainly to look for responses from any barges or large ships as there is not room for one of you and them. In some cases you actually have to turn around and go back the way you came to get out to let the wide vessel pass.

The only time I do not slow down to minimize my wake is when I am in open water and there are just a few smaller boats around fishing out there. I figure they are big boys, if they want to anchor and fish in the middle of the bay then they understand they are in for the ride. If I come up on a gaggle of boats and can't deviate around them then I will slow down or if I see that there are children on a small boat I will come off plane as well. Bottom line is I am actively thinking about how I am piloting my boat and assess every situation and make adjustments accordingly. Too many boaters either don't know of just don't give a damn which is a real shame when it ruins another's enjoyment of their boating experience.

Legal always until a situation demands i react differently to preserve people and boats safely.
Legal is good on paper. Not always good on water when boats are coming from every direction and speed.

We see it way more than we would like, that's for sure. We always try and be aware of our wake and sometimes if my mind is on the chart plotter or where ever for a brief moment, Karen will snap me out of it by saying "you see that boat docked right there, right?" when we're in tight spaces because at 8 kts our boat still throws a good wake. We learned quickly when we went south for the first time that once we reached the ICW, we needed to stow anything that could be damaged by being waked. After several trips and once being told by a "professional" captain that was moving a yacht that "people like you are a waste of my time" over the radio, we just prepare for the worst and hope for the best. 99.9% of the people out there are good courteous boaters, but there's always "that guy".

ZZ13 said:

In that situation I’m pretty sure I would have done what you did.

We have something similar called the Rock Pile at Myrtle Beach. The protocol there is to announce your entry into that narrow rocky stretch on 16 and 13, mainly to look for responses from any barges or large ships as there is not room for one of you and them. In some cases you actually have to turn around and go back the way you came to get out to let the wide vessel pass.

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I was told early on that when traveling north, when you get to the house on the left flying the Clemson flag, that's my cue to make the securite call

There's a rock cut section up on the Trent Severn that's about a third as wide as that...that' can be interesting.

I know this area well. Our boat is deep draft so we do not use any of the inlets at Sarasota or Longboat. If we are heading to the area its either come in/out at Venice or up by Anna Marie. January - March it is often enough rough outside that we are inside a fair amount.

I agree with your description of the traffic. One factor that is an accelerant to the problem is most of these larger boats heading north need to open the bridge at Cortez. Once they realize that if they do not pick up the pace they will not make the next opening - everyone be damned. Getting to the bridge just reinforces "hammer down" attitude.

Almost every trip I see pontoon boats with a rental sign on the side, 10-12 people on board including kids (may or may not have life vests on), and sometimes kids sitting on the front of the boat with their legs hanging over. My assumption is the person operating the rental pontoon probably does not have very much experience and very little appreciation for the challenges of the environment they are boating in.

If there is any traffic, I just slow down. I will not give up the channel through that stretch, I need 6 ft. and I just don't think the depth is there outside those markers. I will putter along at idle speed and just treat it as a no wake zone.

You are an experienced captain and can survive the wakes - although it would be messy. My assumption is 90%+ are not experienced and have no idea.

I hate this stretch when traffic is heavy. I have sat waiting for a bridge opening at Cortez and counted 70-80 boats (of all shapes and sizes) coming through that bridge in the course of 20 minutes. Traffic can be unbelievable in that area.

On the Delaware River we have ocean going freighters accompanied by tug boats. The tug boats throw a 5 foot wake, which is why I won't get a pontoon boat or a bowrider. This Summer we ran into a tugboat wake which was three 5 foot waves close together. I handled the first two fine, but misjudged the third. Our bow went under but since it is a cuddy cabin the bow popped back up and shed the water. My wife turned to me and said "we are never buying a bowrider".

FootballFan said:

I know this area well. Our boat is deep draft so we do not use any of the inlets at Sarasota or Longboat. If we are heading to the area its either come in/out at Venice or up by Anna Marie. January - March it is often enough rough outside that we are inside a fair amount.

I agree with your description of the traffic. One factor that is an accelerant to the problem is most of these larger boats heading north need to open the bridge at Cortez. Once they realize that if they do not pick up the pace they will not make the next opening - everyone be damned. Getting to the bridge just reinforces "hammer down" attitude.

Almost every trip I see pontoon boats with a rental sign on the side, 10-12 people on board including kids (may or may not have life vests on), and sometimes kids sitting on the front of the boat with their legs hanging over. My assumption is the person operating the rental pontoon probably does not have very much experience and very little appreciation for the challenges of the environment they are boating in.

If there is any traffic, I just slow down. I will not give up the channel through that stretch, I need 6 ft. and I just don't think the depth is there outside those markers. I will putter along at idle speed and just treat it as a no wake zone.

You are an experienced captain and can survive the wakes - although it would be messy. My assumption is 90%+ are not experienced and have no idea.

I hate this stretch when traffic is heavy. I have sat waiting for a bridge opening at Cortez and counted 70-80 boats (of all shapes and sizes) coming through that bridge in the course of 20 minutes. Traffic can be unbelievable in that area.

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I know you know. Hard to believe that I used to run a 56 Nautical (6' draft) out of New Pass on a routine basis in the 80's. But that was when the CG station (now in Nokomis) ran out of 10th street, so that pass was NEVER shoaled. I'd love to shoot the commissioners that let them go to Nokomis. Big Pass is a joke. I can still get out New Pass, but only at full daylight, sun overhead and calm.

370Dancer said:

I know you know. Hard to believe that I used to run a 56 Nautical (6' draft) out of New Pass on a routine basis in the 80's. But that was when the CG station (now in Nokomis) ran out of 10th street, so that pass was NEVER shoaled. I'd love to shoot the commissioners that let them go to Nokomis. Big Pass is a joke. I can still get out New Pass, but only at full daylight, sun overhead and calm.

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And you have a few years of local knowledge I do not have.

We’ve transited that section often now that we live in Sarasota and I’ve always slowed for smaller boats it does suck to come off plane and spool the diesels back up but I could throw people in the water and that’s just stupid.

We always have 2 sets of eyes looking for the weekend fisherman on a 10’ boat in the mangroves so legal or not we always adjust. I’ve traveled with Capt. Rusty and witness him almost stop for the little guys while in a 65’ Fly it’s not only courtesy it’s damn right dangerous.

Havana Shamrock said:

We’ve transited that section often now that we live in Sarasota and I’ve always slowed for smaller boats it does suck to come off plane and spool the diesels back up but I could throw people in the water and that’s just stupid.

We always have 2 sets of eyes looking for the weekend fisherman on a 10’ boat in the mangroves so legal or not we always adjust. I’ve traveled with Capt. Rusty and witness him almost stop for the little guys while in a 65’ Fly it’s not only courtesy it’s damn right dangerous.

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Considering the amount of traffic there, what would you think if it became a slow speed minimum wake from oh, say #25 up to the Cortez bridge? About 5 miles. Same for coming in Longboat Pass to the intracoastal? I've seen tremendous erosion of the South and East end of Jewfish over the years from large vessel wake. I've stayed at the house on the East side of the island a few times, and have NEVER been able to put a boat out at the dock, even with heavy duty mooring whips.

370Dancer said:

Considering the amount of traffic there, what would you think if it became a slow speed minimum wake from oh, say #25 up to the Cortez bridge? About 5 miles. Same for coming in Longboat Pass to the intracoastal? I've seen tremendous erosion of the South and East end of Jewfish over the years from large vessel wake. I've stayed at the house on the East side of the island a few times, and have NEVER been able to put a boat out at the dock, even with heavy duty mooring whips.

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Would be much safer given the traffic load. There is that point (don't remember the marker numbers) where there have been temporary markers where the channel narrows down. I think a couple of miles south of that all the way up to the bridge might as well be slow speed.

I wish the bridge opening (cortez and anna Marie) schedule was reviewed also. If it is low tide I can make it through one of the bridges without opening. But when both have to be opened its a pain. It is a 10-15 minute trip between the two bridges at complete idle. 30 minute opening windows means always a wait.

FootballFan said:

Would be much safer given the traffic load. There is that point (don't remember the marker numbers) where there have been temporary markers where the channel narrows down. I think a couple of miles south of that all the way up to the bridge might as well be slow speed.

I wish the bridge opening (cortez and anna Marie) schedule was reviewed also. If it is low tide I can make it through one of the bridges without opening. But when both have to be opened its a pain. It is a 10-15 minute trip between the two bridges at complete idle. 30 minute opening windows means always a wait.

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The county is back to trying to replace the Cortez bridge with a fix span, like Ringling Causeway, 65' clearance. Obviously the village is up in arms, as the new path will cut about 300 feet off the face, take a few businesses and houses with it, and make it generally impossible to cross from South to North without some sort of skywalk. It will, however, allow them to dump more cars onto Anna Maria island in record time. (Just what they need).

370Dancer said:

This will be less of a rant, and more of an ethics question to ponder.
Preface:
I am a 100 Ton Master since 1985. I am a son of a boat builder, and lifelong resident of Sarasota/Bradenton. We have a spot on the Intercoastal Waterway that I have navigated for at least 53 years in various vessels. This spot is about a mile long, beginning at the turn North from the top of Sarasota Bay to Jewfish Key. It is close quarters (the width of the intercoastal) with very shallow water on either side. At the North end, the "deep" water is marked with floating buoys about 20-30 feet wide. It is also one of the most heavily traveled parts of the waterway due to the draw of Jewfish sandbar, Beer Can beach, and is the gateway to the Gulf and Tampa bay eventually.

Yesterday, I borrowed my neighbor's pontoon boat to take my family including a 7 month old grandchild for a ride. Beach House was down, getting props replaced. I came away from that with a few observations.
Manatee County has exactly one slow speed zone in the Intracoastal Waterway. That is at Cortez bridge. Everywhere else is balls to the wall (supposedly up to 25 knots), regardless of what you are driving. There is a very similar channel in South Sarasota, beginning at Siesta Key bridge, heading South that is slow speed, minimum wake for as long as I can remember.
There seems to be little concern in today's navigators for anything except how big, shiny, loud, and fast they can be. Now I don't care too much about the fast part, or the loud part for that matter. There's a time and place for both of those. But there is a huge increase of battlewagon cruisers, and that stretch of waterway is getting very challenging.
View attachment 112802

My normal strategy is to boat on weekdays to avoid the Chit Show, but yesterday was the day for schedule reasons. Beautiful day, so as usual, it was loaded up with every imaginable operator.
After anchoring off the sandbar for a bit, we started heading home. Here comes the question.
As we are traveling South in this very narrow stretch of waterway, there is a Northbound 60 something Azimut, or one of its cousins at full throw. There are 20 or more Sportsman/Contender/Yellowfins behind me, all taking aim to show this Redneck Hee Haw Pontooner what REAL boating is like. Now, Azimut is throwing at least 4' at 20 plus knots. There is only one person visible on the bridge, so worse yet, this was probably some delivery Captain, or someone who just runs like that all the time, so he can't get anyone to go out with him. Just like the center console he drove the day before, there was no attempt to reduce speed or wake, and I guarantee he didn't look back. All I could do is quarter the wake and hope for the best. Needless to say, they were just far enough apart for me to get a righteous deck sweep, including my sleeping 7 month old in a car seat. We caught most of the stuff, and managed to pick the baby up just as we were awash.

Here's the question. Do you, as the operator of your vessel, strictly adhere to the legality of the channel, and surrounding situation be dammed, or do you strictly adhere to your surrounding situation, legality be dammed? Neither one of us was doing anything wrong, unless of course Azimut had caused damage or bodily injury. And, seriously, it could have gone either way.
Manatee County, the Coast Guard, and Core of Engineers need to take a very close look at this stretch. It ain't what used to be in the 90's.
Pondering rant over.

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Here in Michigan, if there is less than 600ft shore to shore, it's considered no wake for vessels of 26 ft or greater and 200ft for 26 and under, and the sheriff makes money off of those areas.
https://www.lakestclairguide.com/service/no-wake-zone/

370Dancer said:

Considering the amount of traffic there, what would you think if it became a slow speed minimum wake from oh, say #25 up to the Cortez bridge? About 5 miles. Same for coming in Longboat Pass to the intracoastal? I've seen tremendous erosion of the South and East end of Jewfish over the years from large vessel wake. I've stayed at the house on the East side of the island a few times, and have NEVER been able to put a boat out at the dock, even with heavy duty mooring whips.

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I’ve seen big boats really rock the heck out of pontoons, and smaller boats in that area and wouldn’t be opposed to it being changed to a no wake or slow zone not to mention the erosion.

Havana Shamrock said:

I’ve seen big boats really rock the heck out of pontoons, and smaller boats in that area and wouldn’t be opposed to it being changed to a no wake or slow zone not to mention the erosion.

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Isn't it sad that we make laws on no brainer behavior?

ttmott said:

Isn't it sad that we make laws on no brainer behavior?

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"...that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient..." 1 Tim 1:9