Sea Ray Sundancer 450 for Long Distance Cruising - All Things Considered

J

Joe Shleb

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Dec 22, 2020
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Currently Boatless - seriously looking
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Hello - new to the forum.

I've been getting more and more interested in Sea Rays over the past year, and currently have my eye on a well equipped 450 Sundancer, w/twin cats. I have experience with both power and sailboats, including a 42' Uniflite twin diesel. This will be my retirement travel/adventure boat and part time residence. So, I thought I would solicit comments from current Sea Ray owners, regarding your opinions on the suitability of a 450 Sundancer (or similar size Sea Ray), as a long distance voyager that can adequately meet the changeless of:
1. Open water sea conditions (sea kindliness or lack thereof).
2. Long-term, comfortable livability
3. Vessel and systems reliability - in general - assuming that scheduled maintenance and periodic inspections are performed.
4. Does it make sense to run a 450 Sundancer on long trips (1,500-3000 miles+- port hopping), as opposed to a purpose-built trawler - all else being equal - except fuel burn and associated operating expenses.

There would undoubtedly be times when I would definitely want to utilize the available power and get up and boogie, however, I also expect that much of the hours of operation will be at slower speeds, in the 9-11.5 knot range. Should I be looking at a different boat type? Or would a Sundancer meet my long distance/long-term travel needs, without sacrificing comfort and safety? Mainly, I'm wondering if there are any stand-out reasons why I shouldn't be considering the 450 or similar type boat, for the intended use I have explained above.

Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.
 
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You should definitely consider a 450, as long as it provides enough space for your tastes. And a 450 Sundancer with CAT diesels, from the 1995 era is a good match. Or were you looking at a more recent 450? Straight forward to maintain (or so I have gleaned from this forum).
 
Joe Shleb said:
Hello - new to the forum.

I've been getting more and more interested in Sea Rays over the past year, and currently have my eye on a well equipped 450 Sundancer, w/twin cats. I have experience with both power and sailboats, including a 42' Uniflite twin diesel. This will be my retirement travel/adventure boat and part time residence. So, I thought I would solicit comments from current Sea Ray owners, regarding your opinions on the suitability of a 450 Sundancer (or similar size Sea Ray), as a long distance voyager that can adequately meet the changeless of:
1. Open water sea conditions (sea kindliness or lack thereof).
2. Long-term, comfortable livability
3. Vessel and systems reliability - in general - assuming that scheduled maintenance and periodic inspections are performed.
4. Does it make sense to run a 450 Sundancer on long trips (1,500-3000 miles+- port hopping), as opposed to a purpose-built trawler - all else being equal - except fuel burn and associated operating expenses.

There would undoubtedly be times when I would definitely want to utilize the available power and get up and boogie, however, I also expect that much of the hours of operation will be at slower speeds, in the 9-11.5 knot range. Should I be looking at a different boat type? Or would a Sundancer meet my long distance/long-term travel needs, without sacrificing comfort and safety? Mainly, I'm wondering if there are any stand-out reasons why I shouldn't be considering the 450 or similar type boat, for the intended use I have explained above.

Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.
Click to expand...
You need to put this boat on your short list....
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/immaculate-450da-now-for-sale.101339/
 
Maybe I am a little biased, but I would look at the 90s 500DAs also. Same price range and a bunch more room. We have had ours for 15 plus years and still love it.
 
bahamabreisus said:
Maybe I am a little biased, but I would look at the 90s 500DAs also. Same price range and a bunch more room. We have had ours for 15 plus years and still love it.
Click to expand...
First time I was on one the anchor was getting rained on and in the cockpit it was sunny.... from the helm that is one crazy view looking over that bow
 
Joe Shleb said:
Hello - new to the forum.

I've been getting more and more interested in Sea Rays over the past year, and currently have my eye on a well equipped 450 Sundancer, w/twin cats. I have experience with both power and sailboats, including a 42' Uniflite twin diesel. This will be my retirement travel/adventure boat and part time residence. So, I thought I would solicit comments from current Sea Ray owners, regarding your opinions on the suitability of a 450 Sundancer (or similar size Sea Ray), as a long distance voyager that can adequately meet the changeless of:
1. Open water sea conditions (sea kindliness or lack thereof).
2. Long-term, comfortable livability
3. Vessel and systems reliability - in general - assuming that scheduled maintenance and periodic inspections are performed.
4. Does it make sense to run a 450 Sundancer on long trips (1,500-3000 miles+- port hopping), as opposed to a purpose-built trawler - all else being equal - except fuel burn and associated operating expenses.

There would undoubtedly be times when I would definitely want to utilize the available power and get up and boogie, however, I also expect that much of the hours of operation will be at slower speeds, in the 9-11.5 knot range. Should I be looking at a different boat type? Or would a Sundancer meet my long distance/long-term travel needs, without sacrificing comfort and safety? Mainly, I'm wondering if there are any stand-out reasons why I shouldn't be considering the 450 or similar type boat, for the intended use I have explained above.

Thank you in advance for your comments and suggestions.
Click to expand...


This is the boat you should consider if you are in fact leaning toward a 450 DA.

http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/immaculate-450da-now-for-sale.101339/

Frank is a mainstay on this forum. Knows all there is to know about SeaRays. This is his personal boat, had is since it was delivered new. I've seen this vessel. It's cherry
 
13.5 years with our '98 450DA and I wouldn't trade for the world. We have spent close to a month on it and I still didn't want to get off. Longest single day run was a couple hundred miles, but it's all good. 2 staterooms and 2 heads with showers, you are set.
 
We have had this boat since 1997:
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/immaculate-450da-now-for-sale.101339/

We have regularly used her as a coastal cruiser since then. It is a nearly perfect cruiser for a couple or small family. This particular model has 350hp 3116 Caterpillars and cruises at 23-24kts burning 22.6 GPH. Pull the throttle back to 22-2250 rpm, and the fuel burn goes down 17-18gph and 18-20 kts

A minor but manageable negative is he 450DA's fuel capacity. It seems that every trip we make, we end the day at a planned fuel stop, hoping we arrive before the fuel attendant closes shop for the day. But, we are in a great location in NW Fla since there are several very interesting cruising destinations 3-6 hours away where we can go and return on one fill up.

Water capacity is also a bit of a limiter @ 100 gal. You can limit usage and extend the 100 gal by not using both heads, by taking navy showers, pre-washing dishes in seawater, etc. If I were to long distance cruise this boat, I would add a water maker and there is plenty of space to add one in the bilge.

Another possibility would be the 500DA mentioned in post # 4 by Bahambresius but you would have to explore daily range water capacity etc. of the 500DA.

Have fun shopping.......
 
bahamabreisus said:
Maybe I am a little biased, but I would look at the 90s 500DAs also. Same price range and a bunch more room. We have had ours for 15 plus years and still love it.
Click to expand...
I have been up at the boat for 3 days now looking at the bow of this 500 behind me and avoiding his anchor :) .. Lots of fiberglass up there... pic doesn’t do it justice

CF790180-85F0-41D3-AF74-DD3BBD366253.jpeg
 
I always defer to FrankW but I think range can be adjusted on the 450. Example: We took our at 21 mph across The Gulf Stream and then throttled down to 8mph to Nassau. Then we put in 14 gallons (Jerry Cans) at West Bay and proceeded to Staniel Cay. Thats around 300 miles. As it turned out we could have made it without the 14 gallons. The 450 will sip fuel if you can be patient and not in a hurry. My only complaint about my 98 450 was the comfort of galley area seating (Washer/Dryer model style). The water consumption can be adjusted also. I really like Franks suggestion of a water maker for extended cruising. We did survey(Partial a 1996 500Da) which we really, really liked. I also think the 450 or 500 DA models would be dependent on the type and area you would be going to. The great loop for example would be an example of lower ht of from water line of both Da models as opposed to a bridge boat. Going to Bahamas, Keys etc... Bridge boat may be more appropriate. Just a few quick thoughts. Happy New Year everyone. JC
 
Blueone said:
I have been up at the boat for 3 days now looking at the bow of this 500 behind me and avoiding his anchor :) .. Lots of fiberglass up there... pic doesn’t do it justice

View attachment 97032
Click to expand...

That one has about 13 extra feet of fiberglass. :D
 
My only question is what do you mean by “open water sea conditions “?

There are other vessels far more seaworthy in open sea conditions but may not be as luxurious a sea liner. I think of all your criteria this is the one that determines what your vessel should be.

If you’re in Florida for example go to any marina and take a look at the vessels in common. Aside from the prevalence of sport fishermen styles you will find a consistent theme in the hull types used for open seas.

For the inmates, I’m not saying a SR 450 is a tub only suitable for calm near shore waters. We’ve all been in 8-12 ft seas in all kinds of boats. Just saying there are trade offs that a captain has to consider when cruising long voyages, namely the trade off between high end luxury and comfort vs pure battle wagon seaworthiness for open seas.

Take a look at Viking, Tiara, even Formula.
 
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The 450 DA will handle more than the skipper will. I went back and looked up the rough GPm numbers for the trip to the Exumas. We mostly putted around but it looks like we were getting about 1.3 GPm give or take a little. With 400 gallons the range is still pretty good. At one time I had all the correct numbers but as with time they are now gone. Happy New Year CSR Crew. JC
 
fwebster said:
We have had this boat since 1997:
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/immaculate-450da-now-for-sale.101339/

We have regularly used her as a coastal cruiser since then. It is a nearly perfect cruiser for a couple or small family. This particular model has 350hp 3116 Caterpillars and cruises at 23-24kts burning 22.6 GPH. Pull the throttle back to 22-2250 rpm, and the fuel burn goes down 17-18gph and 18-20 kts

A minor but manageable negative is he 450DA's fuel capacity. It seems that every trip we make, we end the day at a planned fuel stop, hoping we arrive before the fuel attendant closes shop for the day. But, we are in a great location in NW Fla since there are several very interesting cruising destinations 3-6 hours away where we can go and return on one fill up.

Water capacity is also a bit of a limiter @ 100 gal. You can limit usage and extend the 100 gal by not using both heads, by taking navy showers, pre-washing dishes in seawater, etc. If I were to long distance cruise this boat, I would add a water maker and there is plenty of space to add one in the bilge.

Another possibility would be the 500DA mentioned in post # 4 by Bahambresius but you would have to explore daily range water capacity etc. of the 500DA.

Have fun shopping.......
Click to expand...
Thanks! I would most likely opt for a water maker PLUS I generally will only drink or cook with purified water from the 2 gallon grocery store plastic dispensers. Additional water filters at the tap, as well.
 
fwebster said:
We have had this boat since 1997:
http://clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/immaculate-450da-now-for-sale.101339/

We have regularly used her as a coastal cruiser since then. It is a nearly perfect cruiser for a couple or small family. This particular model has 350hp 3116 Caterpillars and cruises at 23-24kts burning 22.6 GPH. Pull the throttle back to 22-2250 rpm, and the fuel burn goes down 17-18gph and 18-20 kts


Have fun shopping.......
Click to expand...
Frank, I am curious if your cruise speed is slightly inflated. I’m not trying to start an argument with you.
listening to your numbers bums me out. I have a 400DA with the same engines. If I pull the power back to 22-2250 I might see around 17 or 18 I think I would be over 2400 if I wanted to see 22-23 kts. Wot is 2800 rpm on mine. If your numbers are true. What do you think is the reason. After all your boat is larger and weighs more. on a separate note, what is the beam on the 450? The brochure says 13’11”. That can’t be right. That’s the 400 beam
 
My boat had 3126's. Franks numbers look about right to me. My 450 would run (approximate) 2100-2200 rpm- 20-21 kts. If I remember right, which I may not, I got around 20-21 GPH at cruise. Your numbers look a little low to me? I never measured the beam but 13'11" sounds about right.
 
'98 450, 3126 CATS @ 22kts @ 26gph, no water maker, we run fully loaded....
 
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