Third Edition
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Could be true, but perhaps it's not working as well as planned. Evidence Trump's election in 2016. We'll see how it unfolds this time in 12 days.
I voted today
- Thread starter Blueone
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Could be true, but perhaps it's not working as well as planned. Evidence Trump's election in 2016. We'll see how it unfolds this time in 12 days.
JPGator
Active Member
Of course.
With a middle schooler, a good job and a diverse background I am concerned.
This country provides the opportunity for people to better themselves, it does not guarantee it. With the evolution of politics and elected leaders in this country its becoming increasing more popular to support the idea that everything should be free, its everyone else fault and that hard work is, well, too hard.
To be clear, before I'm pigeonholed into a political party, I don't care about your religion, sexual orientation or political affiliation. Differences among nations are not resolved by please and thank you but rather the fact of a strong military and, finally, socialism simply doesn't work. Quoting Margaret Thatcher "...trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money."
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Britain is an interesting example to quote. Its not purely socialist, but it has universal health care that is publicly funded. It very much has a left and a right in politics and in voters. Maybe not as polarized as the US, but similar.
I think it is important to note that universal healthcare is not socialism. It is being painted that way by the US right as being a slippery slope to full socialism.
I cannot see any scenario where the US would move to the socialist disaster that the Republicans are campaigning on. Too many checks and balances in the system. The only way that could ever happen is if the will of the people was that it happen (as determined by your electoral process). I cannot ever see that happening, any more than the current administration was able to shift the whole country to the far right while it controlled all 3 branches. You have a well designed system (other than maybe some of the inequities in the electoral college system). You just can't let it be circumvented.
If we had a public that was pragmatic, knowledgeable, and critical thinkers I would agree; but rather we are raising and educating disciples of devious intimation.
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northshore
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I'm going with a write in candidate...
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The problem with society is that it is never going to be possible to have the vast majority of the voters be "pragmatic, knowledgeable, and critical thinkers". The lack of actual knowledge about the complexity of real issues is why the uninformed voters can be easily swayed by twitter political policy statements and blanket statements like "orange man bad" or "Dems are socialists" or "immigrants are the problem". Politicians of all stripes have to balance how to bring the uniformed onto their side, as well as the "pragmatic, knowledgeable, and critical thinkers". And there are more of the former than the later and they all get to vote. And listening to the debates and the rallies on both sides, they are not trying to sway the "pragmatic, knowledgeable, and critical thinkers". They are all trying to sway the uninformed to vote for them WIHOUT informing them. Its all about emotional voting, not educational voting for that uninformed crowd, and they decide elections.
Hundreds of years ago in some places (and currently in a lot of countries too), the government and the wealthy elite decide what is right for the people. Voting was or is either not allowed, or irrelevant shams (middle east, China, Russia). But the US broke away from that many years ago when the US was created and decided that everyone would be able to vote. That includes many people that, IMO, probably should not be allowed to vote if they don't truly understand the issues that they are in effect voting for. But that ship sailed a long time ago.
I don't entirely agree with this assessment; your rationale is result not cause - I place most blame on the US educational system. The educational system has allowed itself to become a platform of proselytization rather than a forum to instill technique (like critical thinking) so when one accomplishes an education regardless of level they have the skills and desire to become knowledgeable, be pragmatic (in the best sense of the word), and consequently execute rational choice. We need incentive and compensation to make teaching attractive and competitive to the well paid engineers, lawyers, doctors, and business people rather than poorly paid part time hacks of a personal or institutional cause. I agree you can't fix Bubba who lives in a broken down single-wide and drives a new Corvette to get cigarettes and beer at the corner circle K; but we need to make that the fringe rather than the norm. Are you familiar with Hillsdale College and their library of guest authors and writings?
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northern
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Health care in Britain is both public and private. If you do not want to wait you can go private care. Britain also has VAT (Value added tax) of 20% on goods and services.
JPGator
Active Member
If this country socializes or nationalizes anything, especially healthcare, there goes your well educated professionals. Specifically with medicine, no physician will attend 12 years or more of college, medical school and residency for the prospect of making the equivalent of what a doctor in Europe makes.
Third Edition
Well-Known Member
Voting is a popularity contest. Everything is based on opinion with issues decided based upon the opinion that's most widely held. It's always been that way. That said, it's worked pretty good for over 200 years.
The make-up of the American people has changed during that 200+ years. Initially the population was mostly immigrants who were unsatisfied in the 'old country' and valued their freedom. They came here, fought for what they believed in and what they wanted. They often got the 'hand out' of free land but they had to develop it and sustain it to keep it. They never got something for their mere act of existence. It was largely a meritocracy. It was not perfect.
Fast forward to today when perhaps only around half the US population are of that more self-sufficient pioneer spirit. Others, by contrast, do want something based on their mere act of existence. Some of those are willing to fight for what they believe in but think a meritocracy is racist. What does that leave? If things are not decided on some largely objective and widely agreed-upon system of merit, who decides? How is the decision made?
We're seeing the answer to that working its way out on the streets of Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, etc. What happens November 4 will be interesting.
The make-up of the American people has changed during that 200+ years. Initially the population was mostly immigrants who were unsatisfied in the 'old country' and valued their freedom. They came here, fought for what they believed in and what they wanted. They often got the 'hand out' of free land but they had to develop it and sustain it to keep it. They never got something for their mere act of existence. It was largely a meritocracy. It was not perfect.
Fast forward to today when perhaps only around half the US population are of that more self-sufficient pioneer spirit. Others, by contrast, do want something based on their mere act of existence. Some of those are willing to fight for what they believe in but think a meritocracy is racist. What does that leave? If things are not decided on some largely objective and widely agreed-upon system of merit, who decides? How is the decision made?
We're seeing the answer to that working its way out on the streets of Minneapolis, Seattle, Portland, etc. What happens November 4 will be interesting.
Needless to say but also the entrepreneur that creates the great medicines, surgical devices, prosthetics, etc. All incentive would be lost to the dime on the dollar efficiency of a mono-tone bureaucracy.
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The teaching of religion is banned in public schools. Politics should also be banned. Any instructor found to be teaching politics or more specifically instructing about the political party they are affiliated with or the political beliefs they hold should immediately be terminated. This brainwashing is disgusting. We are not allowed to wear Trump or Biden masks into a polling station, nor should we have our children indoctrinated into the thinking of a particular instructor.
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That I agree on. Except they must learn about politics, but it must be unbiased. We have a similar issue in Canada that almost 100% of teachers are unionized employees and for the most part, vote left. So most kids grow up being left leaning idealists because teachers have the ability to introduce their biases, despite standardized curriculum.
That is not always a bad thing to have our youngsters have aspirations for a better world for all. Some of it sticks in adulthood. But the realities of life generally turn kids more conservative as time moves on and taxes start to be paid.
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Voter suppression my ass. I voted today and in Fulton Co. Ga (Atlanta) all polling locations at 10 am this morning were less than a 30 minute wait except the one near me, that was 31-60 minutes, which is about average and acceptable to me. I would have waited 8 hours if I had to.
However, they have a mobile voting booth that moves around to hot spots. It was 5 minutes down the road, and it took me 15 minutes in and out.
However, they have a mobile voting booth that moves around to hot spots. It was 5 minutes down the road, and it took me 15 minutes in and out.
Ponty
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Most states will not allow any political clothing inside voting precinctsit was pretty uneventful no line... just walked in gave ID voted and left... about that fast. It was kinda a lonely empty feeling. Didn’t even get a sticker
Yesterday my son voted ..as he is standing in line he had a guy wearing a Trump mask 6’ behind him and another guy wearing a Biden mask 6’ behind the trump guy..... he said they were both around 60. The voting police came out and told the trump guy he couldn’t wear a Trump mask inside to vote. So he says what about the guy behind me if he can wear that I can wear mine. The voting police said both of you have to take them off and we will give you a paper mask..... Biden guy said he wasn’t taking his off .... Trump guy goes I am never taking mine off.... the two mask guys got into it a bit with each other.... I guess it was quite funny. Both of them put the paper masks over their cloth masks and voted
Now that’s how you vote!!
‘If You Are Not a Liberal When You Are Young, You Have No Heart, and If You Are Not a Conservative When Old, You Have No Brain’
-- Joseph S. Alpert, MD
Third Edition
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It's been said that long lines to vote are a form of voter suppression.
“And just because it is happening in a blue state doesn’t mean it isn’t voter suppression,” AOC said of the extensive waits and New York’s traditional Democratic Party leaning..." https://nypost.com/2020/10/25/aoc-blasts-long-wait-lines-for-voters-at-bronx-polling-site/
Election day is a week from tomorrow.
There are a lot of people excited to vote in this election. Long lines are perhaps a sign of that excitement, and not a sign of voter suppression. Glass half full or half empty?
Long lines at the polling place ≠ voter suppression.
Weeks of early voting ≠ voter suppression. Quite the opposite.
“And just because it is happening in a blue state doesn’t mean it isn’t voter suppression,” AOC said of the extensive waits and New York’s traditional Democratic Party leaning..." https://nypost.com/2020/10/25/aoc-blasts-long-wait-lines-for-voters-at-bronx-polling-site/
Election day is a week from tomorrow.
There are a lot of people excited to vote in this election. Long lines are perhaps a sign of that excitement, and not a sign of voter suppression. Glass half full or half empty?
Long lines at the polling place ≠ voter suppression.
Weeks of early voting ≠ voter suppression. Quite the opposite.
northshore
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From A CNBC article
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/26/fre...ion-options-to-get-to-your-polling-place.html
"But voting in person poses accessibility issues that can suppress participation, particularly for those who do not have a car or reliable public transportation, or those who live far away from their polling place. While 66% of voters with access to a car voted in the 2018 general election, just 36% of voters without access to a car voted, according to recent research from professors at Harvard University and Boston University."
So not having a car and being too f#@@&ing lazy to walk to the poling place or pick up the phone to ask a friend or relative to take you is voter suppression? If it were important to you, you would find a way. Easier to play the victim card I guess.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/26/fre...ion-options-to-get-to-your-polling-place.html
"But voting in person poses accessibility issues that can suppress participation, particularly for those who do not have a car or reliable public transportation, or those who live far away from their polling place. While 66% of voters with access to a car voted in the 2018 general election, just 36% of voters without access to a car voted, according to recent research from professors at Harvard University and Boston University."
So not having a car and being too f#@@&ing lazy to walk to the poling place or pick up the phone to ask a friend or relative to take you is voter suppression? If it were important to you, you would find a way. Easier to play the victim card I guess.
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And conversely if more people feel motived to vote this year, and there is a really high turnout, that makes the result more clearly the decision of the people. Last I checked previously lazy non-voters are still able to vote (whether they should be allowed to, is another thing...).
Third Edition
Well-Known Member
Either party will pick voters up and take them to the polls. All the voter has to do is want to vote and to make a call.
I wonder if the Harvard and BU professors asked if the 64% without cars who did not vote actually wanted to vote? Survey results are often skewed by how questions are asked, or by what is not asked.
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