In the Market

We have been shopping for a 400 sedan Bridge. We have looked at, bid on, lost and withdrawn bids on some vessels. We have looked at 440 Express Bridge, 450 express bridge and 480 sedan bridge as well as the 400 Sedan. A consistent issue that has come up is the problem of water intrusion and fiberglass delamination on boats built from 1995-2002. We have also come up with boats that have been sent back to Sea Ray for mitigation of this problem. This reportedly consisted of taking apart the boat removing the engines ect., and rebuilding the hull. Has anyone run into this, and is this a real problem or just our bad luck to run into. Thanks in advance for anyone's thoughts on this.

What part of the country are you in? Looking at gas or diesel?

Yes, a lot of the 440 EB will have delam hulls, and that's mainly attributed to the hokey engine room vent cut outs that leak.

Is this hull issue pretty unique to that model? I was under the impression that "most" of the 400+ models were not cored below the water line...

The other question to ask is how bad is the damage. Someone might of had a soft spot and stopped the issue. If you are looking at boats 20 years old, they are not going to be perfect. If someone had a window leak and they fixed it, the meter would still show moisture, but the issue could be fixed. Again $200k for 20 year old or $800k for a new one of the same size.

Stee6043 said:

Is this hull issue pretty unique to that model? I was under the impression that "most" of the 400+ models were not cored below the water line...

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If you look at the 400 EB engine room vents, SR cheaped out and just cut them out of the hull and placed the vents there. Had they spent the time and effort to mold those cutouts, or even spent the time to properly prepare them when bedding the vents, it wouldn't be an issue. But after time, they start leaking and the core becomes saturated.

The 400SB doesn't suffer from that as the vents are not cut out from the hull. As long as there are no points for water intrusion, such as crappy cutouts for through hulls or improperly installed deck hardware, or leaking windows, there shouldn't be a problem.

Sea Ray bought some expensive lessons and had to eat a few boats in the 1989-1992 time period due to faulty core constructions techniques. Since then, there have been very few boats with wet cores due to construction.

There have been and will always be a few cored hull boats with moisture problems due to 1.)poor maintenance (failure of the owner to remove and rebed docking lights, hull vents, etc. There factory used silicone because not is flexible and hulls do flex. However, silicone has a relatively short life span because it breaks down and loses its ability to adhere. 2.)another problem area is where the owner, his ship yard or dealer has installed a thru hull or transducer in the wrong place, and 3.)any cored hull boat with prior physical damage that was not fully dried out before the repair was done would be subject to moisture problems.

This is why you do surveys.

In the Sea Ray world, there are some features to pay attention to primarily because they are the source of a lot of moisture intrusion:

1. Avoid a boat with docking lights mounted in the hull below the rub rail at the bow. If (When!) you get in some decent head seas and take a few waves over the bow, those docking lights will submarine and plow up more seawater than you can imagine.

2. pay close attention to the hull vents and where the factory installed them. For example, the boats you mentioned 440EB; 450EB, 480DB all have the engine room vents cut into the hull, below the rub rail. They will be sealed/bedded with silicone and can leak after about 5 years. Now take a look at the 450DA and the 480DA for example.......the hull vents are positioned above the rub rail in the deck cap where the structure is solid fiberglass.

3.Look down the side of the boat and particularly the bow area and transom corners for discolored gelcoat the doesn't match and for uneven wavy gelcoat for evidence of prior physical damage.

If you see any of these potential problem areas, have your surveyor start with a moisture meter and perhaps you will be able to avoid the full survey cost by stopping if you find substantial moisture intrusion in the coring.


Keep in mind that every deck is cored and there are far more potential sources of moisture ingress in the deck than in the hull.

Moisture in a cored structure doesn't mean the boat is destined for the land fill. Most wet cores can be dried out and repaired........the question becomes, how expensive with the repair be, can it be negotiated and will the repair be so expensive that a negotiated sale is not feasible.

CaptRonn said:

What part of the country are you in? Looking at gas or diesel?

Yes, a lot of the 440 EB will have delam hulls, and that's mainly attributed to the hokey engine room vent cut outs that leak.

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So we made an offer on a 400 SB on a lake in the NE( we are in CT). Surveyor chwck d out the hull on the hard and recommended we don't buy the boat. Thankfully before sea trial. We are looking at a 440 EB that had the repair done by Sea Ray. Owner has the paperwork and a video. Engines were removed and rebuilt at the same time. Might be a winner

Skipper, what would you suggest using rather than silicone, or would you , in the course of doing PM just recaulk all of the fittings, mounting s etc?

Soo. We took possession of our 1996 440 EB. Hull Showed dry. A couple of places need some PM. Surveyor recommended I remove and reseat and seal the forward dock light. If not silicon, What do you recommend? What do you think of flexseal?

Frank D said:

Soo. We took possession of our 1996 440 EB. Hull Showed dry. A couple of places need some PM. Surveyor recommended I remove and reseat and seal the forward dock light. If not silicon, What do you recommend? What do you think of flexseal?

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Why not 4200?

Is that a marine caulk?

I think what Frank is getting at is silicone/caulk are used in these situations. The issue is they do not last forever. ER vents, windshields, blower vents, etc. must be recaulked as it deteriorates. Replacing about every 5 years is spot on. I had water getting in my ER because the caulk around the ER vents was bad.......

Bennett

bbwhitejr said:

I think what Frank is getting at is silicone/caulk are used in these situations. The issue is they do not last forever. ER vents, windshields, blower vents, etc. must be recaulked as it deteriorates. Replacing about every 5 years is spot on. I had water getting in my ER because the caulk around the ER vents was bad.......

Bennett

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Right. 4200 is probably the best stuff around to adhere and seal things on a boat. Not permanent, but close.

Frank d
We purchased a 94 440eb, what a great layout, truly underrated imho. When I removed the engine vent I was pleasantly surprised to see the factory had epoxied the core. When i replaced the windlass, yep the factory had epoxied the core there as well. Work your way around the boat resealing the penetrations. I mix up west systems epoxy and coat the openings first, then follow up with 3m 4200 caulk. Don’t skip the epoxy step, it is the long term insurance. Dont forget all the little snaps, unscrew and reseal.

Cdog

Glad I found this thread. I haven't heard of the ER vent issue before. I have a 97 440EB and will be checking these items over the weekend just to be sure.

Frank D said:

We have been shopping for a 400 sedan Bridge. We have looked at, bid on, lost and withdrawn bids on some vessels. We have looked at 440 Express Bridge, 450 express bridge and 480 sedan bridge as well as the 400 Sedan. A consistent issue that has come up is the problem of water intrusion and fiberglass delamination on boats built from 1995-2002. We have also come up with boats that have been sent back to Sea Ray for mitigation of this problem. This reportedly consisted of taking apart the boat removing the engines ect., and rebuilding the hull. Has anyone run into this, and is this a real problem or just our bad luck to run into. Thanks in advance for anyone's thoughts on this.

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Sidewinder, we will likely be putting our 2005 Sundancer on the market around Christmas. Its located in Sarasota, fl. Let me know if you might be interested. I bought this boat after learning about it from this site. I looked for a long time and never found a boat that was "as advertised". there is no BS on this site. Great place for help, and finding a boat that is solid buy.

fwebster said:

Keep in mind that every deck is cored and there are far more potential sources of moisture ingress in the deck than in the hull.

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I noticed that the 1996-2001 400 DB had a dry weight of 22000 lbs.
But starting in 2004 with the 420 DB and new body style, the boat gained only 1ft (45ft total vs 44) but now weights 28500 Lbs, a +30% increase in weight.

Could this be due to a better hull/deck design by chance? Maybe some combination of less coring more glass?