410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Strecker25 said:
I think the 400 is under the aft. Our 410 is under the front v berth. I didn’t completely dismantle the master berth yet but I don’t see anything showing the tank is leaking. As a test I drained it completely and put it on the hose and it still collected
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Got it. In my 52DB the guest head portlight was leaking when it rained and that allowed fresh water under the floor which took me almost a year to find and sort out.....
 
ttmott said:
Got it. In my 52DB the guest head portlight was leaking when it rained and that allowed fresh water under the floor which took me almost a year to find and sort out.....
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Water in bilges is probably my biggest frustrations of boat ownership but it’s so satisfying when you finally find them :)
 
Strecker25 said:
I have an elusive leak that must be from the freshwater system. I suspect it’s slow, wherever it is
in the center bilge in front of the aft cabin, and the void under the aft cabin floor (I cut a hole, see previous posts) I collect about 1-2 gallons of water in a 24 hour period. It seems worse on shore water probably since the pressure is higher. The freshwater pump does not cycle when we’re on the tank, but the leak still exists.

I’ve looked at all the faucet connections in the heads and galley, and started pulling out access panels but I cannot find anything dripping.

I have some tracer dye that I will be putting into the tank next week to track it down.
It also collects when the freshwater tank is empty but on hose water, indicating it’s coming from amidships or further.
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Can’t be any faucets, lines or fittings After the the pump if the pump doesn’t occasionally cycle.
Could be the tank, Or the hose/line between the tank and pump. but you said water appears when the tank is empty.
I would eliminate the tank, check what Tom said, my 360 tank would bulge Enough enough when full That it wore a hole near the top. And I had a dock neighbor that once had a hole in the bottom of his black water tank from the factory installing it on top of a sheet metal screw. Rare, yep but it happened, and what a mess.
After you eliminate the tank and Line on suction side of the pump, I think it’s time to look at shower floor drains or????
I don’t know 410’s enough to comment further. Good luck
 
Strecker25 said:
I have an elusive leak that must be from the freshwater system. I suspect it’s slow, wherever it is

in the center bilge in front of the aft cabin, and the void under the aft cabin floor (I cut a hole, see previous posts) I collect about 1-2 gallons of water in a 24 hour period. It seems worse on shore water probably since the pressure is higher. The freshwater pump does not cycle when we’re on the tank, but the leak still exists.

I’ve looked at all the faucet connections in the heads and galley, and started pulling out access panels but I cannot find anything dripping.

I have some tracer dye that I will be putting into the tank next week to track it down.

the water is not coming from the front of the boat, I also cut access holes in the forward hatches and they are dry. It also collects when the freshwater tank is empty but on hose water, indicating it’s coming from amidships or further aft.

My question, is there a usual suspect? I have a bunch of spare 15mm connectors for whenever I find it but I don’t want to just start replacing without finding the root cause.
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What about the sumps and the things that drain into them ie AC's and showers?? Maybe plugged lines?
 
dtfeld said:
What about the sumps and the things that drain into them ie AC's and showers?? Maybe plugged lines?
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I haven’t completely isolated them but I did shop vac dry and didn’t see anything wet, I also opened the front berth and salon couch to chdck.

I verified the tracer dye is safe as long as we flush it afterwards so I’m going to start with that, it’ll at least show if it’s the freshwater system or not. It’s sensitive to black light too, so I can use a black light flashlight to track it down.

thanks guys, I’ll report back once I do some more digging
 
Also look at the mid ship AC unit and make sure the duct is in good shape, that could be a source of condensation.
 
Anyone block their own boat? Looking to buy stands for our 92 400 Express and just looking for confirmation on what stands to buy.. Ran the Brownell estimator - which seems like it would be fine, but they call for sailboat stands for the bow set. Trying to get a price from MarineMart, but they haven't sent me a quote yet.

Qty 4 K4 Keel Stand
Qty 6 MBS-1
Qty 2 SBS3

Also - any concerns with placing the boat on an asphalt driveway, with plywood under the stands? Not sure if this warrants a small steel plate under the keel stands.

Thanks in advance!
 
What do you cat 3116/3126 guys see for in gear low idle? One side is about 50rpm lower than the other for us.

the higher side is around 650-660 while in gear (port) vs 600 stbd
 
markrsimon said:
Anyone block their own boat? Looking to buy stands for our 92 400 Express and just looking for confirmation on what stands to buy.. Ran the Brownell estimator - which seems like it would be fine, but they call for sailboat stands for the bow set. Trying to get a price from MarineMart, but they haven't sent me a quote yet.

Qty 4 K4 Keel Stand
Qty 6 MBS-1
Qty 2 SBS3

Also - any concerns with placing the boat on an asphalt driveway, with plywood under the stands? Not sure if this warrants a small steel plate under the keel stands.

Thanks in advance!
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My take on it - Boat weight 28,000 pounds. The Keel Stands will carry about 80% of the load. So, let's say that you put each stand on 16" X 16" X 3/4" plywood so that means that the asphalt is carrying about 3150 pounds per square foot (or just less than 22 pounds per square inch) which is not far from typical wheel loading of a car; A 4000 pound car at 21 pounds per square inch (or 3000 pounds per square foot). Regardless, if it were my boat I would add two more K4's to fully support the keel.
 
Riptide III said:
Watching this. A friend has the same issue
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Well, its not the fresh water system (at least while on the water tank/fresh water pump)

I filled the tank with a flourescent tracer and let it sit all night - not a drop of that colored water in the bilge.

I need to take a more methodical approach. There is a chance its still the freshwater system as I don't have a good way of dyeing the shore water inlet. What I did realize is we always run the AC/heat and have shore water on at the same time. I am wondering if I have a cooling water supply leak to the AC units somewhere.

The pans don't leak, no condensation on the vents, etc. The amount of water I'm pulling out has to be supplied by something more consistent than those anyways.

My plan is to somehow pressurize the AC water supply lines while the boat is on the hard this winter. I might even use a different colored Antifreeze than the rest of the boat so its obvious if that's the leaking system
 
Strecker25 said:
Well, its not the fresh water system (at least while on the water tank/fresh water pump)

I filled the tank with a flourescent tracer and let it sit all night - not a drop of that colored water in the bilge.

I need to take a more methodical approach. There is a chance its still the freshwater system as I don't have a good way of dyeing the shore water inlet. What I did realize is we always run the AC/heat and have shore water on at the same time. I am wondering if I have a cooling water supply leak to the AC units somewhere.

The pans don't leak, no condensation on the vents, etc. The amount of water I'm pulling out has to be supplied by something more consistent than those anyways.

My plan is to somehow pressurize the AC water supply lines while the boat is on the hard this winter. I might even use a different colored Antifreeze than the rest of the boat so its obvious if that's the leaking system
Click to expand...

Maybe someone already suggested this - but have you tried to recreate the issue by flushing your toilets? Is it possible the fill valves are leaking (freshwater) downstream of the valve, so they only leak when flushed, hence your pump doesn't run?
 
Strecker25 said:
Well, its not the fresh water system (at least while on the water tank/fresh water pump)

I filled the tank with a flourescent tracer and let it sit all night - not a drop of that colored water in the bilge.

I need to take a more methodical approach. There is a chance its still the freshwater system as I don't have a good way of dyeing the shore water inlet. What I did realize is we always run the AC/heat and have shore water on at the same time. I am wondering if I have a cooling water supply leak to the AC units somewhere.

The pans don't leak, no condensation on the vents, etc. The amount of water I'm pulling out has to be supplied by something more consistent than those anyways.

My plan is to somehow pressurize the AC water supply lines while the boat is on the hard this winter.
Click to expand...
Stee6043 said:
Maybe someone already suggested this - but have you tried to recreate the issue by flushing your toilets? Is it possible the fill valves are leaking (freshwater) downstream of the valve, so they only leak when flushed, hence your pump doesn't run?
Click to expand...

I'll check. I did take the base off the toilet and checked the connections and didn't see anything but that's a good thought. thanks
 
2D0311B0-B41B-4CEB-B091-F5BA1BA39B49.png
markrsimon said:
Anyone block their own boat? Looking to buy stands for our 92 400 Express and just looking for confirmation on what stands to buy.. Ran the Brownell estimator - which seems like it would be fine, but they call for sailboat stands for the bow set. Trying to get a price from MarineMart, but they haven't sent me a quote yet.

Qty 4 K4 Keel Stand
Qty 6 MBS-1
Qty 2 SBS3

Also - any concerns with placing the boat on an asphalt driveway, with plywood under the stands? Not sure if this warrants a small steel plate under the keel stands.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Not sure what part # these are..
8 side stands are all the same.
4 keel stands all the same vee-tops.
Plywood under everything on blacktop.
 
Air O'Nautical said:
View attachment 92163

Not sure what part # these are..
8 side stands are all the same.
4 keel stands all the same vee-tops.
Plywood under everything on blacktop.
Click to expand...

Looks like the front stands are a taller version, based on the amount of threaded rod showing and placement of the wing nut. Good to know the front is larger, and that things should survive with plywood underneath. Thanks for sharing!
 
markrsimon said:
Looks like the front stands are a taller version, based on the amount of threaded rod showing and placement of the wing nut. Good to know the front is larger, and that things should survive with plywood underneath. Thanks for sharing!
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I was just going to correct that...
Yes, the two front ones are taller.
All are the same angled type of stands.
Sorry for the terrible pic...it’s all I had :)
 
markrsimon said:
Anyone block their own boat? Looking to buy stands for our 92 400 Express and just looking for confirmation on what stands to buy.. Ran the Brownell estimator - which seems like it would be fine, but they call for sailboat stands for the bow set. Trying to get a price from MarineMart, but they haven't sent me a quote yet.

Qty 4 K4 Keel Stand
Qty 6 MBS-1
Qty 2 SBS3

Also - any concerns with placing the boat on an asphalt driveway, with plywood under the stands? Not sure if this warrants a small steel plate under the keel stands.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Screenshot_20200915-073516_Gallery.jpg

I use 5 keel stands and 6 side stands. I store inside on concrete.
 
Searay Chuck said:
View attachment 92187
I use 5 keel stands and 6 side stands. I store inside on concrete.
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Not to start anything, but I would be a bit concerned about the forward side stand not being on the chine. If the stand is not directly under a stringer, there is a chance, albeit remote, that the stand could weaken or worse yet puncture the hull.
A friend had his boat damaged by a marina misplacing the stand. It ended up putting a hole in the hull. It was repaired, but still not a good experience.
 
Anyone know the 3126 exhaust outlet diameter? I'm ordering the thermocouples and ISS has two models - one for 4" or less and the other for larger than 4". A quick google search turns up a 4" exhaust pipe but I'm not at the boat right now
 
Strecker25 said:
Anyone know the 3126 exhaust outlet diameter? I'm ordering the thermocouples and ISS has two models - one for 4" or less and the other for larger than 4". A quick google search turns up a 4" exhaust pipe but I'm not at the boat right now
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My exhaust in 6” diameter. I would go bigger, but you could also buy both and return the others.
 
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