George Floyd

Creekwood said:
There are literally millions upon millions of black people in America that are not looting and want nothing to do with violent protests. But they have faced racism and are behind what BLM stands for in some ways, but not all ways. But it is front and center and has the microphone, so they are using it. The danger they face in aligning with part of the BLM agenda, is that they get accused of supporting looting and violent protests. Like what I am seeing in this discussion. Maybe those that are posting here, actually have talked with their black friends, co-workers, neighbors about it and understand their views as well. But I suspect many of you posting haven't talked to them to try to understand.

Its unfortunate that you have an election process going on that will not let ANYTHING get done about the protests and violence. It is in the GOP's best interest for it to escalate because they have heavily invested in a polarized fear mongering election platform that is central to the law and order messaging.

Ironically all of this is occurring under Trump's leadership and policies. Its amazing that he is using news footage of events that are occurring now, under his leadership, as a campaign platform for a prediction of what might happen under Biden's leadership. But he is not doing anything about it. He is in charge now. So he should be able to stop it now and demonstrate how his law and order agenda will end it all right now. If he can't do it now, how can he do it starting in January 2021?

I really wish that the GOP had a better choice back in 2016. I fear that you are actually going to lose conservative government leadership in the US because of Donald Trump. And in the meantime, he has stirred up more racial division since the 1960s that he has no solution for. If he has a solution, he has not done a good job articulating it.
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With all due respect, you are utterly ignorant of the USA, The Constitution of the USA, USA government, and USA politics. Since the 1990's we have had Presidents off "messages of unity" when this chit happens. Bush 1, Clinton, Bush 2, and Obama. All it has gotten is worse.

Trump doesn't have federal power over the states (read that 5 times). Law enforcement starts with the city/counts and the individual states. Unless invited by the state government, you need a federal crime for the feds to get involved. From day one, Trump has said restore law and order. From day one, he has said the feds will help. From day one, Democrat Governors and Mayors rejected his help. Not because they wanted to protect their citizens, but because they thought they could score political points. They where wrong. Law and order always wins with Joe and Judy lunch bucket. All you need to do is look at Kenosha. Trump offered troops. Denied. Until people got killed. Then the troops showed up along with Fed law enforcement. They ended the riots in hours. They literally pulled the antifa thugs off the streets as they where gassing up. Two nights of actual protests followed. We'll see what happens tonight.
 
MileHighSeaRayGuy said:
Care to answer my question about why you still support a man who stole $2 million dollars from veterans charities in 2019? That’s TDS, huh, to question the president of the US pleading guilty to fraud?
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Simple. Because he's the greatest President we have had in a generation since Reagan!!!!!! Troll.
 
Full Statement:

VERNON HILLS, ILLINOIS / August 28, 2020 / Pierce Bainbridge is honored to represent 17-year old Antioch, Illinois resident Kyle Rittenhouse, who has suddenly found himself at the center of a national firestorm and charged with murder after defending himself from a relentless, vicious and potentially deadly mob attack in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

On August 25th, 2020, Kenosha spiraled into chaos following the Jacob Blake shooting. The Kenosha Mayor and Wisconsin Governor failed to provide a basic degree of law and order to protect the citizens and community buildings in Kenosha. The city burned as mobs destroyed buildings and property, and looters stole whatever they wanted. Rioters defaced storefronts, the courthouse, and many other public and private locations across the city.

After Kyle finished his work that day as a community lifeguard in Kenosha, he wanted to help clean up some of the damage, so he and a friend went to the local public high school to remove graffiti by rioters. Later in the day, they received information about a call for help from a local business owner, whose downtown Kenosha auto dealership was largely destroyed by mob violence. The business owner needed help to protect what he had left of his life’s work, including two nearby mechanic’s shops. Kyle and a friend armed themselves with rifles due to the deadly violence gripping Kenosha and many other American cities, and headed to the business premises. The weapons were in Wisconsin and never crossed state lines.

Upon arrival, Kyle and others stood guard at the mechanic’s shop across from the auto dealership to prevent further damage or destruction. Later that night, substantially after the city’s 8:00 p.m. curfew expired without consequence, the police finally started to attempt to disperse a group of rioters. In doing so, they maneuvered a mass of individuals down the street towards the auto shops. Kyle and others on the premises were verbally threatened and taunted multiple times as the rioters passed by, but Kyle never reacted. His intent was not to incite violence, but simply to deter property damage and use his training to provide first aid to injured community members.

After the crowd passed the premises and Kyle believed the threat of further destruction had passed, he became increasingly concerned with the injured protestors and bystanders congregating at a nearby gas station with no immediate access to medical assistance or help from law enforcement. Kyle headed in that direction with a first aid kit. He sought out injured persons, rendered aid, and tried to guide people to others who could assist to the extent he could do so amid the chaos. By the final time Kyle returned to 2 the gas station and confirmed there were no more injured individuals who needed assistance, police had advanced their formation and blocked what would have been his path back to the mechanic’s shop. Kyle then complied with the police instructions not to go back there. Kyle returned to the gas station until he learned of a need to help protect the second mechanic’s shop further down the street where property destruction was imminent with no police were nearby.

As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle. He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.

Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.

Kyle got up and continued down the street in the direction of police with his hands in the air. He attempted to contact multiple police officers, but they were more concerned with the wounded attackers. The police did not take Kyle into custody at that time, but instead they indicated he should keep moving. He fully cooperated, both then and later that night when he turned himself in to the police in his hometown, Antioch, Illinois.

Kyle did nothing wrong. He exercised his God-given, Constitutional, common law and statutory law right to self-defense.

However, in a reactionary rush to appease the divisive, destructive forces currently roiling this country, prosecutors in Kenosha did not engage in any meaningful analysis of the facts, or any in-depth review of available video footage (some of which shows that a critical state’s witness was not even at the area where the shots were fired); this was not a serious investigation. Rather, after learning Kyle may have had conservative political viewpoints, they immediately saw him as a convenient target who they could use as a scapegoat to distract from the Jacob Blake shooting and the government’s abject failure to ensure basic law and order to citizens. Within 24-36 hours, he was charged with multiple homicide counts.

Kyle now has the best legal representation in the country. With help from Nicholas Sandmann attorney L. Lin Wood, Pierce Bainbridge and multiple top-tier criminal defense lawyers in Wisconsin immediately offered representation to Kyle.

Today, his legal team was successful in working with the public defender to obtain a several-week continuance of his extradition hearing to September 25th. This at least partially slows down the rush to judgment by a government and media that is determined to assassinate his character and destroy his life.

Kyle, his family, the team at Pierce Bainbridge and his other lawyers intend to fight these charges every step of the way, take the case to trial and win an acquittal on the grounds of self-defense before a jury of his peers.

The legal fees and other costs of Kyle’s defense will be provided through donations to #FightBack Foundation Inc., a Texas 501(c)(4) foundation created by John Pierce and Lin Wood to protect law abiding American citizens whose rights are being trampled on by state and local governments that are more concerned with appeasing mobs than protecting those rights.

Pierce Bainbridge founder John Pierce praised Kyle’s strength and resilience. “A 17-year old child should not have to take up arms in America to protect life and property. That is the job of state and local governments. However, those governments have failed, and law-abiding citizens have no choice but to protect their own communities as their forefathers did at Lexington and Concord in 1775. Kyle is not a racist or a white supremacist. He is a brave, patriotic, compassionate law-abiding American who loves his country and his community. He did nothing wrong. He defended himself, which is a fundamental right of all Americans given by God and protected by law. He is now in the crosshairs of institutional forces that are much more powerful than him. But he will stand up to them and fight not only for himself, but for all Americans and their beloved Constitution. We will never leave his side until he is victorious in that fight.”

Further updates will be provided as the investigation and legal proceedings unfold.

#FightBack
 
IMO, no way a Kenosha county jury comes close to convicting him on murder.
 
Golfman25 said:
IMO, no way a Kenosha county jury comes close to convicting him on murder.
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When you cross state lines with your AR15 and end up killing 2 people, you’re not defending your home, you’re hunting.
 
Steve S said:
Full Statement

VERNON HILLS, ILLINOIS / August 28, 2020 / Pierce Bainbridge is honored to represent 17-year old Antioch, Illinois resident Kyle Rittenhouse, who has suddenly found himself at the center of a national firestorm and charged with murder after defending himself from a relentless, vicious and potentially deadly mob attack in Kenosha, Wisconsin.

On August 25th, 2020, Kenosha spiraled into chaos following the Jacob Blake shooting. The Kenosha Mayor and Wisconsin Governor failed to provide a basic degree of law and order to protect the citizens and community buildings in Kenosha. The city burned as mobs destroyed buildings and property, and looters stole whatever they wanted. Rioters defaced storefronts, the courthouse, and many other public and private locations across the city.

After Kyle finished his work that day as a community lifeguard in Kenosha, he wanted to help clean up some of the damage, so he and a friend went to the local public high school to remove graffiti by rioters. Later in the day, they received information about a call for help from a local business owner, whose downtown Kenosha auto dealership was largely destroyed by mob violence. The business owner needed help to protect what he had left of his life’s work, including two nearby mechanic’s shops. Kyle and a friend armed themselves with rifles due to the deadly violence gripping Kenosha and many other American cities, and headed to the business premises. The weapons were in Wisconsin and never crossed state lines.

Upon arrival, Kyle and others stood guard at the mechanic’s shop across from the auto dealership to prevent further damage or destruction. Later that night, substantially after the city’s 8:00 p.m. curfew expired without consequence, the police finally started to attempt to disperse a group of rioters. In doing so, they maneuvered a mass of individuals down the street towards the auto shops. Kyle and others on the premises were verbally threatened and taunted multiple times as the rioters passed by, but Kyle never reacted. His intent was not to incite violence, but simply to deter property damage and use his training to provide first aid to injured community members.

After the crowd passed the premises and Kyle believed the threat of further destruction had passed, he became increasingly concerned with the injured protestors and bystanders congregating at a nearby gas station with no immediate access to medical assistance or help from law enforcement. Kyle headed in that direction with a first aid kit. He sought out injured persons, rendered aid, and tried to guide people to others who could assist to the extent he could do so amid the chaos. By the final time Kyle returned to 2 the gas station and confirmed there were no more injured individuals who needed assistance, police had advanced their formation and blocked what would have been his path back to the mechanic’s shop. Kyle then complied with the police instructions not to go back there. Kyle returned to the gas station until he learned of a need to help protect the second mechanic’s shop further down the street where property destruction was imminent with no police were nearby.

As Kyle proceeded towards the second mechanic’s shop, he was accosted by multiple rioters who recognized that he had been attempting to protect a business the mob wanted to destroy. This outraged the rioters and created a mob now determined to hurt Kyle. They began chasing him down. Kyle attempted to get away, but he could not do so quickly enough. Upon the sound of a gunshot behind him, Kyle turned and was immediately faced with an attacker lunging towards him and reaching for his rifle. He reacted instantaneously and justifiably with his weapon to protect himself, firing and striking the attacker.

Kyle stopped to ensure care for the wounded attacker but faced a growing mob gesturing towards him. He realized he needed to flee for his safety and his survival. Another attacker struck Kyle from behind as he fled down the street. Kyle turned as the mob pressed in on him and he fell to the ground. One attacker kicked Kyle on the ground while he was on the ground. Yet another bashed him over the head with a skateboard. Several rioters tried to disarm Kyle. In fear for his life and concerned the crowd would either continue to shoot at him or even use his own weapon against him, Kyle had no choice but to fire multiple rounds towards his immediate attackers, striking two, including one armed attacker. The rest of the mob began to disperse upon hearing the additional gunshots.

Kyle got up and continued down the street in the direction of police with his hands in the air. He attempted to contact multiple police officers, but they were more concerned with the wounded attackers. The police did not take Kyle into custody at that time, but instead they indicated he should keep moving. He fully cooperated, both then and later that night when he turned himself in to the police in his hometown, Antioch, Illinois.

Kyle did nothing wrong. He exercised his God-given, Constitutional, common law and statutory law right to self-defense.

However, in a reactionary rush to appease the divisive, destructive forces currently roiling this country, prosecutors in Kenosha did not engage in any meaningful analysis of the facts, or any in-depth review of available video footage (some of which shows that a critical state’s witness was not even at the area where the shots were fired); this was not a serious investigation. Rather, after learning Kyle may have had conservative political viewpoints, they immediately saw him as a convenient target who they could use as a scapegoat to distract from the Jacob Blake shooting and the government’s abject failure to ensure basic law and order to citizens. Within 24-36 hours, he was charged with multiple homicide counts.

Kyle now has the best legal representation in the country. With help from Nicholas Sandmann attorney L. Lin Wood, Pierce Bainbridge and multiple top-tier criminal defense lawyers in Wisconsin immediately offered representation to Kyle.

Today, his legal team was successful in working with the public defender to obtain a several-week continuance of his extradition hearing to September 25th. This at least partially slows down the rush to judgment by a government and media that is determined to assassinate his character and destroy his life.

Kyle, his family, the team at Pierce Bainbridge and his other lawyers intend to fight these charges every step of the way, take the case to trial and win an acquittal on the grounds of self-defense before a jury of his peers.

The legal fees and other costs of Kyle’s defense will be provided through donations to #FightBack Foundation Inc., a Texas 501(c)(4) foundation created by John Pierce and Lin Wood to protect law abiding American citizens whose rights are being trampled on by state and local governments that are more concerned with appeasing mobs than protecting those rights.

Pierce Bainbridge founder John Pierce praised Kyle’s strength and resilience. “A 17-year old child should not have to take up arms in America to protect life and property. That is the job of state and local governments. However, those governments have failed, and law-abiding citizens have no choice but to protect their own communities as their forefathers did at Lexington and Concord in 1775. Kyle is not a racist or a white supremacist. He is a brave, patriotic, compassionate law-abiding American who loves his country and his community. He did nothing wrong. He defended himself, which is a fundamental right of all Americans given by God and protected by law. He is now in the crosshairs of institutional forces that are much more powerful than him. But he will stand up to them and fight not only for himself, but for all Americans and their beloved Constitution. We will never leave his side until he is victorious in that fight.”

Further updates will be provided as the investigation and legal proceedings unfold.

#FightBack
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When you cross state lines with your AR15 and end up killing 2 people, you’re not defending your home, you’re hunting.
 
PlayDate said:
I'm confused. I have no issue with peaceful protests. I think they are stupid and don't accomplish anything but it is part of our Constitution. In regards to criminals and criminal acts you are okay with locking them up .....so we agree on that but I believe that the criminals are claiming to be protestors .....so how do you tell the difference?

We disagree on Trump. While he is not perfect......he is doing exactly what he said he would do. I'm supportive of that. I could do without a lot of the Tweet nonsense but he has to control the narrative since MSM is clearly against him 24 hours a day.

He is threading the needle on the city protests. That is how it works in an election year. The dems are trying to pander to everyone they can to get people to vote. That is why they aren't condemning the violence. I believe that strategy has backfired and the polls show that American voters are against a number of key DNC platform issues (Defund the Police, Green New Deal, Defunding the US Military and a host of others).

While you make not like Trump.....the reality is unless the dems make some serious course corrections.....they will lose the WH and possibly the House in 64 days.
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He does exactly what he says he will do? Built the wall? No. Hillary in jail? No. Repealed Obamacare? Nope. Brought coal and manufacturing back? No. Tax cuts for the rich? Yes. Crashed economy? Yes. 190,000 and counting dead Americans? Yes.
 
MileHighSeaRayGuy said:
He does exactly what he says he will do? Built the wall? No. Hillary in jail? No. Repealed Obamacare? Nope. Brought coal and manufacturing back? No. Tax cuts for the rich? Yes. Crashed economy? Yes. 190,000 and counting dead Americans? Yes.
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You still don't understand that mixing up topics on a specific thread repeatedly indicates you are a Troll? Perhaps you are proud of that. I could care less what you think of Trump.

63 days to go.
 
MileHighSeaRayGuy said:
He does exactly what he says he will do? Built the wall? No. Hillary in jail? No. Repealed Obamacare? Nope. Brought coal and manufacturing back? No. Tax cuts for the rich? Yes. Crashed economy? Yes. 190,000 and counting dead Americans? Yes.
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There is a list of all of Trump’s accomplishments floating around. I can find it if you need to see it. Crashed economy? The economy was in the best place in recent years until the virus was released by the Chinese which was believed to be at the behest of the Dems. And if you think Trump is the only president that has misused funds you are more clueless than you let on. President Trump is more under a microscope than any other president in modern history. Not because he is incompetent....but because he’s not “presidential” and does not play the games other politicians do. Is he perfect? Hell no....but name a president in the last 100 years that was. Politicians have been screwing up our country for the past 25 years or so. You know the definition of insanity? It was time to try something different and it was working.

You made a statement early on about politics being on a boating forum. Thank god they are because this forum seems to be the only open forum I’ve seen in a while where people appear to have sane thoughts....until you came along.
 
MileHighSeaRayGuy said:
When you cross state lines with your AR15 and end up killing 2 people, you’re not defending your home, you’re hunting.
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Weird - am I caught in the matrix or did you just copy and repost the same bumper sticker?
 
MileHighSeaRayGuy said:
He does exactly what he says he will do? Built the wall? YES 300 MILES AND COUNTING. Hillary in jail? STILL NOT PRESIDENT Repealed Obamacare? MANDATE GONE Brought coal and manufacturing back? AS WELL AS FRACKING AND BEING ENERGY INDEPENDENT-ALLOWED THE PIPELINE TOO Tax cuts for the rich? TAX CUTS FOR THE EMPLOYED Yes. Crashed economy? NOPE, GREATEST ECONOMY SINCE REAGAN 190,000 and counting dead Americans? THANKS CHINA - THE CDC SAID WE WERE SUPPOSE TO HAVE 2MILLION DEATHS. YOUR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP SAVED OVER 1.8MILLION LIVES
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Glad I could clear these questions up for you troll. What's the layout in your 215EC cuddy, just curious as compared to my 215WE?
 
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A 17 year old kid heads down to an area of known violent protests armed with an AR-15 assault rifle (that he crossed State lines with since he lives in Illinois and works in Wisconsin) and you are trying to argue he is some kind of good Samaritan? The very fact that he thought that was the right thing to do, and the fact that you think that he should get off on the charges, is absolutely bat shit crazy. What if that was a black father that went down to make sure that the Proud Boys did not try to injure his kids that wanted to march in a peaceful protest? And if he decided to bring an AR-15. but things got out of hand and he felt his kids and himself were in danger so started picking off the Proud Boys that were fighting? Would that be within his rights? Is that the America you all want?

This is escalating out of control. The only way this stops escalating is if the American people stop condoning it and if all levels of government including the President, takes leadership to denounce BOTH sides using violence.
 
Creekwood said:
A 17 year old kid heads down to an area of known violent protests armed with an AR-15 assault rifle (that he crossed State lines with since he lives in Illinois and works in Wisconsin) and you are trying to argue he is some kind of good Samaritan? The very fact that he thought that was the right thing to do, and the fact that you think that he should get off on the charges, is absolutely bat shit crazy. What if that was a black father that went down to make sure that the Proud Boys did not try to injure his kids that wanted to march in a peaceful protest? And if he decided to bring an AR-15. but things got out of hand and he felt his kids and himself were in danger so started picking off the Proud Boys that were fighting? Would that be within his rights? Is that the America you all want?

This is escalating out of control. The only way this stops escalating is if the American people stop condoning it and if all levels of government including the President, takes leadership to denounce BOTH sides using violence.
Click to expand...

Please read post 465. It explains his day. The gun was from WI and never crossed state lines. Many people armed themselves from the imported “rioters“ who were destroying many local businesses who had absolutely nothing to do with the issue. The police were only protecting certain government buildings NOT local residents homes and businesses. President Trump had offered assistance which was refused by the Democratic Governor Tony Evers. There are very limited circumstances were the president can send in help without the local authorities approval. Only after the shootings was assistance accepted and amazingly there was no more violence. In fact, a Kenosha local noticed several vehicles meeting in an empty lot and called police. The police and the US Marshalls started a surveillance of them, then intercepted them at a gas station where they were filling 5 gallon cans with gas. Vehicles were from Washington state and had fireworks, gas masks, bats, drugs and other stuff. Nine people were arrested.

My 400DB is located about a 15 minute drive from Kenosha. I have been watching things very carefully!
 
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Creekwood said:
A 17 year old kid heads down to an area of known violent protests armed with an AR-15 assault rifle (that he crossed State lines with since he lives in Illinois and works in Wisconsin) and you are trying to argue he is some kind of good Samaritan? The very fact that he thought that was the right thing to do, and the fact that you think that he should get off on the charges, is absolutely bat shit crazy. What if that was a black father that went down to make sure that the Proud Boys did not try to injure his kids that wanted to march in a peaceful protest? And if he decided to bring an AR-15. but things got out of hand and he felt his kids and himself were in danger so started picking off the Proud Boys that were fighting? Would that be within his rights? Is that the America you all want?

This is escalating out of control. The only way this stops escalating is if the American people stop condoning it and if all levels of government including the President, takes leadership to denounce BOTH sides using violence.
Click to expand...
There are some very detailed videos of everything out there. I'll wait until everything is in before I'll decide but of those things I've seen so far I'll say self defense. From the very beginning this kid was running away to avoid conflict. The first guy caught up to the kid and attacked him, he got shot. Some of the crowd, not necessarily well informed, then goes after him. He runs away again, while running someone comes up from behind and hits him in the head. A short while after he trips and falls.

At that point a guy comes flying through the air to deliver a foot stomp to the head. He barely lands back on the ground and the skateboard guy cocks back with the skateboard and takes a shot at the kids head. He grabs the barrel of the gun and tries to pull it away, he gets shot. That guy stumbles off and the next guy is rushing in with a pistol in his hand at the same time. He stops/hesitates, then continues, he gets shot in the arm.

A lot of emphasis by some on the kid bringing the gun across state lines. He didn't do that, but even if he did, why is that a 'thing'.

The three guys the kid shot are presented as angles by the media, but they aren't. They were there to get into some shit and did. Proof of that is they were attacking the kid instead of carrying protest signs down the sidewalk. The first guy is the most obvious, he got into 'I'm a badass' mode and took his shirt off. I know this guy, his type, met him a few times back in my drinking days. He was looking for trouble and he got it.

The kid should have stayed home....and so should have the rest that were 'mostly peacefully protesting' that night.
 
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